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Prohormones?

p-mo

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I was kinda looking into getting the 17 - meth 1-test product. Anyone have any experience? Would PCT be necessary? Milk thistle during the cycle?
 

5alphareductase

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Some of them are effective, but not the old ones like andro. Some people on here know more about prohormones than me, so I will let them recommend a good one.

You will need post cycle clomid or nolvadex after using them, and you will need a liver protector like milk thistle at least.
 

ShaDDoW

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5alphareductase said:
Some of them are effective, but not the old ones like andro.

Just to clarify, he's talking about 4-androstenedione (andro).

For a beginner, I think the safest, cheapest, most effective stack would be a combination of 1-Testosterone & 4-Androstenediol (4-AD). This stack is especially ideal for bulking cycles. When cutting, you should lower the dosage of 4-AD.

1-testosterone is NOT a prohormone, it is a legal steroid (meaning it does not require conversion) that is over 7 times as anabolic as testosterone. With 1-test there is no aromatization to estrogen. What this means is it causes very significant increases in muscle size and strength with almost no estrogenic side effects (water retention, fat gain, gynecomastia).

4-androstenediol is a prohormone (requires conversion) to testosterone. 4-AD converts to testosterone at a much higher rate than other commercially available prohormones (such as androstenedione), and also doesn’t have the weakness of conversion to estrogen and/or DHT prior to conversion to testosterone.

When stacked together, the 1-test provides high anabolic activity, while the 4-AD reduces or reverses common side effects of 1-test (such as lethargy and reduced libido) as well as providing additional anabolism. Sex drive is usually maintained or even significantly increased. This is the #1 recommended stack for beginners who want to see good gains with a good side effect profile. The price for a transdermal cycle is very low, however oral administration will jack up the price a bit.

1-testosterone and 1,4-andro can also be stacked during cutting periods - and probably more effectively - although at a higher cost.

Recommended dosages:
1-test: 150-250 mg transdermally, 300-500 mg oral
4-AD: 200-400 mg transdermally, 600-1200 mg oral
Always err on the side of caution.

Another one of my favorites is 17aa-1-testosterone or methyl-1-testosterone (M1T). M1T is VERY inexpensive and highly anabolic, however, I would strongly recommend against it for beginners. This compound is not to be taken lightly. M1T is a substance that begins to work immediately and can provide large gains in a very short period of time. Reactions to M1T vary widely. Common sides include lethargy, increased blood pressure and joint pain. Many people have reported very uncomfortable side effects (flu-like symptoms, severe lethargy, painful back pumps, bloat..) while others (such as myself) have reported very few. The side effects can be reduced by lowering dosage or taking smaller doses more frequently. Many of the side effects may be due to decreased testosterone and estrogen levels. I highly recommend stacking it with another androgen such as 4-AD.

The main concern with M1T (and methylated steroids in general) is hepatotoxicity. Avoid other substances that are toxic to the liver (alcohol) at all costs while on cycle. When stacking M1T, it is best to stack it with something other than an oral steroid/prohormone, such as a transdermal. Milk thistle, r-ALA, and N-acetyl-cysteine are a must to help protect the liver.

M1T causes a decrease in appetite, which can be harmful or beneficial, depending on your goals. Adding 4-AD will help by increasing appetite and reducing lethargy, as well as improving libido.

Recommended dosage is 5-10 mg daily, or 10-20 mg daily for highly experienced users ONLY. I would limit M1T cycles to 2 weeks. I have had GREAT results and minimal sides with a 2-week cycle consisting of 10mg M1T ed & 200mg trans 4-AD ed. The idea with this product is to take as little as possible to see gains. If you are not seeing gains, increase dosage, but PLEASE be cautious. You will also need to take a longer time-off between cycles of M1T than with ordinary “prohormones”.

Another one to look into is 17a-methyl 5alpha Androstenediol (M5AA). M5AA is a similar match to the steroid Proviron or Masteron. It’s an awesome pre-workout stimulant, and may even surpass M1T as far as strength gains. What’s really kewl about M5AA is that by stacking it with another anabolic such as M1T, you can actually lower the dose of both M1T and M5, but still see synergistic effects (1+1=3).

M5AA also helps reduce the effects of estrogen on cycle, as well as binding to SHBG, allowing for more of other more powerful androgens to attach to the receptor, which creates an overall more anabolic effect. Most people I know like to take this compund during the last 2 weeks or so of a cycle to give their muscles that ultra-hard look.

It's advised to take liver protectants throughout the course of any prohormone cycle, such as milk thistle, r-ala and nac, and proper PCT nolva or clomid.

That should get you started at least. There’s plenty of others, but I think these are a good starting point for you to begin your own research. Good luck.
 
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p-mo

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Cheers! What a fantastic post - the beers on me!

As I said have been thinking about some M1T but I'm gonna have to wait a few months. Currently on fluoexterine (prozac -sp) - so I kinda realised that stacking something liver toxic on there aint exactly the best idea. But its SUPER CHEAP at the mo in the UK so might pick up some and wait for my AD cycle to finish.
 
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ShaDDoW

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Thanks guys.

p-mo, I know that the prohormone ban goes into effect in January - I stocked up several months ago - but that's in the US.. Will it still be available in the UK after that time? That's something to look into if you don't already know the answer. I honestly don't have a clue.
 

p-mo

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Well I guess that I should buy them now then! Was planning to buy the necessary materials for my cycle a good few months before starting- to further research them, etc but thats just pushed me into action! :) Even if there are still available not being able to be manufactured in the US would prolly jack up the price a bit.

For a 2 week cycle of m1t (15mgs) and trans-derm 4-AD (200mgs+) what kind of clomid PCT would be required? Is 100mgs ED for week1 and 50mgs ED for week2 okay (given that this is gonna be a short cycle)?

Would adding DBOL @ 20mgs ED to the cycle increase gains? Is it too much strain to put on my liver (with the two highly liver toxic drugs)? Obviously if I were stacking DBOL I'd increase cycle time (say 2 more weeks starting DBOL start of week 2 and finishing end of week 4; m1t finishing end of week 2; 4-AD entire cycle ) and my PCT.

(waits to be flamed into oblivion for suggesting a cycle without injecting test-ether....)
 
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5alphareductase

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There is way more to making an injectable steroid than that, as it isnt like heroin or anything like that, so just stick with the oral as it is 17 alpha alkylated and oral availability is very good.
 

ShaDDoW

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p-mo, I would honestly start at 10mg m1t and see how you do after a couple days. I know a few guys who are a solid 220+ lbs (100+ kilos) who still won't go over 10mg because when they do the side effects start to kick their ass. It's a very powerful substance and there's a thin line between great gains with few sides and great gains with horrible sides. You can always increase the dosage after a few days, but once you start having those sides, pretty much the only thing you can do to aleviate them is stop your cycle and begin PCT. FWIW, I gained 5 lbs in my first 3 days & 12 lbs total after only 2 weeks of 10mg M1T & 200mg trans 4AD, and I would consider myself an experienced user. I know you're gonna do what you wanna do, but this being a harm-prevention site and all, it's my advice to you to err on the side of caution.

I think it's also a bad idea to run dbol in addition to those two substances. The 2 orals together would be too much stress on the liver, even with all the liver protectors available.

PCT I believe looks ok, but then again I've never run clomid.. Nolvadex is more antiestrogenic at the pituitary and hypothalamus while clomid is only strongly antiestrogenic at the hypothalamus. In other words, nolvadex stimulates the HTPA more directly than clomid. Clomid also shows to increase SHBG allowing for less free testosterone compared to Nolva. Plus, I'm weary of the possible vision issues associated with clomid. My eyes are bad enough as it is. Both work but Nolva is better, IMO.


ForTheRush, it makes no real sense to inject a methylated (17aa) substance. Methyls are designed to be very highly orally bioavailable, so injecting them defeats the purpose. You'd be better off injecting a Cypionate, such as 1-Test Cyp or 4-AD Cyp.
 

p-mo

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I was still kinda undecided on the PCT. I was going to get nolvadex in case of gyno but mainly use clomid. So you would suggest nolv for the whole PCT.... Interesting I'll do some research on dosages.

Yeah after re-reading your post I got the impression that the extra oral would put too much strain on the liver. Guess I'll wait and do a sust+dbol cycle sometime after PCT (if I want to).

Anyway all this is hypothetical as I'm still getting awesome gains from diet and training (10lbs in the past two weeks!) so I'll wait and see if this dries up first.

Cheers for the responses- more than informative!
 

Onimaru

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I was not aware that a ban was going to be put into place in the U.S.I have had a look at several sites that sell prohormones and was thinking of ordering a few bottles of a product called 1AD which I think is a 1-testosterone containing product.I live in Australia and at current we cannot purchase pro-hormones through local health stores. As such, I was going to order a few bottles of the above mentioned product, now that I know there is going to be a ban, I will definitely order.However, if anyone reading this could recommend another product that they believe to be safe, effective and good value it would be much appreciated. I am not looking for huge muscle gains, I have to keep a lean physique as I am currently considering going back into amatuer boxing in the light welter weight division(63.5kg max) and as such I have to watch my weight levels although I dont often encounter fluctuations in my weight.Anyway, any input is appreciated as I dont have a good knowledge of P/H's, but from what I've read they seem to be very effective and in some cases, results are closely comparable to steroids(or so I've read) If anyone can offer any advice, as I stated earlier, it would be much appreciated...
 

p-mo

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1AD is 1,4-androstenedione not 1-test. 4-AD is 4-Androstenediol. Just to clear that up.

As for suggesting something I'll leave that up to someone else (with a bit more knowledge). My gut feeling though would be a transdermal 1-test & 1-AD cycle but as you've prolly guessed I aint exactly the must knowledgeable source...
 

ShaDDoW

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p-mo said:
1AD is 1,4-androstenedione not 1-test. 4-AD is 4-Androstenediol. Just to clear that up.

As for suggesting something I'll leave that up to someone else (with a bit more knowledge). My gut feeling though would be a transdermal 1-test & 1-AD cycle but as you've prolly guessed I aint exactly the must knowledgeable source...

1-AD is NOT 1,4-androstenedione. There is no such thing as 1,4-androstenedione. The different androstenediones are:
1-androstenedione ([5a]-androst-1-en-3,17-dione);
4-androstenedione (androst-4-en-3,17-dione); and
5-androstenedione (androst-5-en-3,17-dione);

I think you're confusing it with 1,4-andro (1,4-androstadienedione). Both 1,4-andro and 1,4-androdiol (1,4-androstadienediol) are prohormones to the steroid boldenone.

1-AD (1-Androstenediol) is a prohormone (requires conversion) to the steroid (does not require conversion) 1-testosterone. They are both very effective products, the main difference being 1-AD is more orally bioavailable, whereas 1-test works better transdermally.

You guys have to pay real close attention, as the names are all similar and it can get confusing. The last thing you wanna do is start cycling the wrong stuff together.

DNICEONER, you can get 1-test powder for ~$3-4/g, and 1-AD for about ~$2-3/g. And just so you know, some people can't get around to sticking themselves, for whatever reason.
 

p-mo

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Damn man all those names are far too similar! And thats coming from someone who can chemically name pretty much every chem in Phikal!

:( I suck and ShaDDoW rules all! (at least I knew that 1-AD was differnt to 1-test even if it was the conversion...) By the way you are a fantastic font of knowledge!

Anyway think I'm overcoming my fear of needles and I'll prolly do a test-eth and dianabol cycle next summer (after I finish uni). Thats ONLY if I stick to my diet/training. I'm making sure I can keep this up for that long!
 
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ShaDDoW

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Dr. McBudstoke said:
^you're not going to get gyno from prohormones. especially not M1T because it doesn't aromatize.

You can get gyno from ph's. Don't fool yourself. Any ph that increases estrogen (4-AD, etc.) can cause gyno.
 
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