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Benzos Preventing receptor internalization with benzodiazapine drugs?

Dr Jekyll

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Joined
Feb 16, 2019
Messages
42
Any ideas on how to mitigate receptor internalization with benzodiazepine use?

I've found that Pregnenolone prevents the development of tolerance to continual use of benzodiazepines, and am planning on getting some etizolam for situational anxiety.

Heres the study about pregnenolone:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9385589

[h=1]Neurosteroid coadministration prevents development of tolerance and augments recovery from benzodiazepine withdrawal anxiety and hyperactivity in mice.[/h]Reddy DS1, Kulkarni SK.
[h=3]Author information[/h]

[h=3]Abstract[/h]Neurosteroids are potent and specific modulators of the GABAA receptors which regulate the neuronal activity through diverse neurotransmitter mechanisms. In the present study we investigated the effects of concomitant treatment with various neurosteroids on the development of tolerance and recovery from withdrawal anxiety and hyperactivity to chronic benzodiazepines. Long-term treatment of mice with full allosteric modulator (triazolam 0.25 mg/kg/day for 8 days) or selective allosteric modulator (diazepam 20 mg/kg/day for 21 days) of GABAA receptor induced tolerance to behavioral sedation on actimeter and anxiolytic effects on plus-maze, and produced a marked withdrawal anxiety and hyperactivity syndrome upon abrupt cessation of treatment, respectively. Concomitant progesterone (10 mg/kg, s.c.), a neurosteroid precursor, of 4'-chlordiazepam (0.25 mg/kg, i.p.), a mitochondrial diazepam binding inhibitor (DBI) receptor (MDR) ligand, prevented the development of tolerance and significantly augmented the recovery from withdrawal-induced anxiety and hyperlocomotion to diazepam. When administered alone for 21 days, neither progesterone nor 4'-chlordiazepam produced any per se effects on actimeter or plus-maze when tested on post-withdrawal days. Coadministration of neurosteroid allopregnanolone (AP) (0.25 and 0.5 mg/kg), or pregnenolone sulfate (PS) (2 mg/kg), but not dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (2 mg/kg), abolished the development of tolerance and attenuated withdrawal-induced anxiety and hyperlocomotion due to triazolam, without producing any per se behavioral effects when tested at 1 and 2 days after the last injection. Coadministration of flumazenil (5 mg/kg), progesterone (10 mg/kg), 4'-chlordiazepam (0.25 mg/kg), hydrocortisone (100 mg/kg) or nifedipine (2 mg/kg) also prevented the development of tolerance and suppressed the triazolam withdrawal syndrome. However, pretreatment with PK11195 (2 mg/kg), a MDR partial antagonist, reversed the effects of 4'-chlordiazepam on triazolam tolerance and recovery from chronic triazolam. When injected simultaneously, nifedipine, a Ca2+ channel antagonist, potentiated the progesterone- and 4'-chlordiazepam-induced attenuation of triazolam tolerance and withdrawal behavior. These findings suggest that coadministration of neurosteroids allopregnanolone, pregnenolone sulfate and progesterone, and MDR ligand 4'-chlordiazepam prevents the development of tolerance to benzodiazepines and augments the recovery from chronic benzodiazepines. These results indicate that coadministration of neurosteroids may facilitate discontinuation of benzodiazepines in long-term therapy.

 
Overall it sounds very promising, I just don't think it's reached a stage of development that makes it ready for sourcing along with possible drawbacks to use in male subjects. I know Flumazenil by itself can reverse tolerance and reset receptors to pre benzo use baseline, of course if you aren't fully clean and detoxed one might expect seizures.


Hydrocortisone sounds okay as part of the "cocktail"
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Nifedipine looks good aside from the hypotensive effects.
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[some of the others raise concerns of involvement in female hormone developement/ regulation. As well as negative mood, anxiogenesis, irritability, decreased cognitive function and aggression. Not that there aren't some benefits to them as well aside from GABA-A activity]
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Progesterone is a female hormone.
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Pregnenolone does sound promising unless you dig cannabis; Pregnenolone is an allosteric endocannabinoid, as it is a negative allosteric modulator of the CB1 receptor.Pregnenolone is involved in a natural negative feedback loop against CB1 receptor activation in animals. It prevents CB1 receptor agonists like tetrahydrocannabinol, the main active constituent in cannabis, from fully activating the CB1 Taking estrogen along with pregnenolone might cause too much estrogen to be in the body.
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4'-chlorodiazepam is a drug which is a benzodiazepine derivative of diazepam. However unlike most benzodiazepine derivatives, Ro5-4864 lacks affinity for GABA A receptors and lacks typical benzodiazepine effects,
instead being sedative yet also convulsant and anxiogenic in effects.
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Increased levels of allopregnanolone can produce paradoxical effects, including negative mood, anxiety, irritability, and aggression.

Mood effects during progesterone treatment seem to be related to allopregnanolone concentration, and a bimodal association between allopregnanolone and adverse mood is evident.

Allopregnanolone and the other endogenous inhibitory neurosteroids have short terminal half-lives and poor oral bioavailability, and for these reason, have not been pursued for clinical use as oral therapies, although development as a parenteral therapy for multiple indications has been carried out. However, synthetic analogs with improved pharmacokinetic profiles have been synthesized and are being investigated as potential oral therapeutic agents.

Allopregnanolone has been under development by Sage Therapeutics as an intravenously administered drug for the treatment of super-refractory status epilepticus, postpartum depression, and essential tremor.A PDUFA date of 19 March 2019 has been set by the FDA for approval of allopregnanolone for postpartum depression (i.e., the FDA will review and possibly approve allopregnanolone by this deadline)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16724185
 
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This is really interesting, bc I've been noticing cyclical hormonal effects on my pain, which is most effectively treated by diazepam. It took a long while for me to catch on bc I have a long follicular phase & short luteal phase, plus overall longish cycle due to my pain - off pain meds I completely stopped ovulating but still had breakthrough bleeding. Maybe this is partly why I'm able to maintain my diaz tolerance (12yrs on it now) & never suffer withdrawal. But I definitely wouldn't be willing to take progestin - I react really badly to synthetic hormones. Might be worth trying bioidentical progesterone if I can get it, though.
 
Yeah, I feel confident that I would be able to take Etizolam alongside stuff like pregnenolone to minimize tolerance issues. Shit is insanely cheap importing from India. Something like 0.06 a pill.

I also plan on stacking it with natural herbs that would prevent tolerance further.
 
Yeah, I feel confident that I would be able to take Etizolam alongside stuff like pregnenolone to minimize tolerance issues. Shit is insanely cheap importing from India. Something like 0.06 a pill.

I also plan on stacking it with natural herbs that would prevent tolerance further.


You might want to investigate it further before making any purchases..

These findings suggest that coadministration of neurosteroids allopregnanolone, pregnenolone sulfate and progesterone, and MDR ligand 4'-chlordiazepam prevents the development of tolerance to benzodiazepines and augments the recovery from chronic benzodiazepines.

In addition to allopregnanolone, pregnenolone acts as a prodrug of pregnenolone sulfate.[11] However, pregnenolone sulfate does not cross the blood–brain barrier.[15][16]

Pregnenolone sulfate in the brain: a controversial neurosteroid.

Pregnenolone sulfate (PREGS) has been shown, either at high nanomolar or at micromolar concentrations, to increase neuronal activity by inhibiting GABAergic and by stimulating glutamatergic neurotransmission. PREGS is also a potent modulator of sigma type 1 (sigma1) receptors. It has been proposed that these actions of PREGS underlie its neuropharmacological effects, and in particular its influence on memory processes. On the other hand, the PREGS-mediated increase in neuronal excitability may become dangerous under particular conditions, for example in the case of excitotoxic stress or convulsions.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18068870


According to a 2004 article published in the journal “Psychneuroendocrinology”, pregnenolone pre-treated subjects showed a significant and clinically relevant reduction in sedation following administration of Valium. It can be considered at least a partial blocker of benzodiazepines.



Take it upstairs to Neuroscience-and-Pharmacology-Discussion and see what they say..
 
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Yeah, that is a small issue with Pregnenolone sulfate.

However, there is a way to mitigate this. Lithium and Prozac selectively enhance production of allopregnanolone. So, if one wants to prioritize the production of allopregnanolone, then you can take those two compounds to further mitigate receptor internalization.

Then there are also herbal supplements like Bacopa, L-Theanine, Magnolia Bark, kava kava, which can further downplay any issues related to receptor downregulation.

I think the most important part of all this is to strictly adhere to a specific dose of your benzo of choice. So, yeah, nothing recreational, just therapeutic...
 
Progesterone is sedating on its own, & I don't notice a reduction in the sedative effects of diaz when my progesterone is high, so maybe they cancel each other out?
 
Dr Jekyll said:
Lithium and Prozac selectively enhance production of allopregnanolone. So, if one wants to prioritize the production of allopregnanolone, then you can take those two compounds to further mitigate receptor internalization.
Lithium, as in the narrow therapeutic index MDD/ Bipolar med with some rough side effects? And the AD Fluoxetine which is known for it's inhibition of CYP2D6, CYP2C19, CYP2B6 and CYP2C9? Sounds like quite the extreme to get more mileage out of your benzodiazepine. Not to mention the possibility Serotonin Syndrome. The 1,5-Benzos seem like a better alternative imo.

Do report back on your trials though.
 
Progesterone is sedating on its own, & I don't notice a reduction in the sedative effects of diaz when my progesterone is high, so maybe they cancel each other out?
Isn't this useless for men unless aas with progestrogenic activity work too?
 
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