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Bupe Precipitated withdrawal and your experiences

I asked this question. Supposedly bup affinity is higher than naloxone but why do people go into PW if they shoot up more than 2mg of subs?

BlueberryfishY said:
How about Subutex? i mean we all know Suboxone has Nalaxone in it and that for sure will put you in withdrawal.. but Subutex is just Bupe and nothing else so it should be fine to take Subutex right after taking methadone or any opiate without getting sick right?
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Both Subutex (Buprenorphine) and Suboxone (Buprenorphine/ Naloxone) can precipitate withdrawal symptoms. The buprenorphine knocks off any opiate agonist (like heroin or methadone) from the mu receptors.

If you have any remaining heroin, oxy's or methadone on your opiate receptors you will go into withdrawal. If you don't want to have precipitated withdrawals you need to wait at least 8 hours after your last heroin use, and between 24 to 36 hours after methadone use, before you take buprenorphine be it Subutex or Suboxone.

The naloxone in Suboxone is not acting orally. It's only in the product to put people off crushing up and IV it. Naloxone IV will send someone who is physically dependent on opiates into withdrawal and also antagonize any opioid effects. The naloxone competes for the opiate receptor sites in the central nervous system, with a greater affinity for the mu receptor.

Hope that explains it well!
 
elviswearsnikes said:
Both Subutex (Buprenorphine) and Suboxone (Buprenorphine/ Naloxone) can precipitate withdrawal symptoms. The buprenorphine knocks off any opiate agonist (like heroin or methadone) from the mu receptors.

If you have any remaining heroin, oxy's or methadone on your opiate receptors you will go into withdrawal. If you don't want to have precipitated withdrawals you need to wait at least 8 hours after your last heroin use, and between 24 to 36 hours after methadone use, before you take buprenorphine be it Subutex or Suboxone.

The naloxone in Suboxone is not acting orally. It's only in the product to put people off crushing up and IV it. Naloxone IV will send someone who is physically dependent on opiates into withdrawal and also antagonize any opioid effects. The naloxone competes for the opiate receptor sites in the central nervous system, with a greater affinity for the mu receptor.

Hope that explains it well!
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Ohhhh.. SO the Naloxone affinity is stronger than BUp? I don't believe Naloxone is inactive via orally. I've heard of some people reversing OD effects by putting subs under their tongue.
 
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mostly-human said:
I know this is an old thread; but fuck it - I'm not the one who originally necro-posted.

I just thought I'd point out - I *do* have a pretty fast metabolism and I always found 6 hours to be plenty of time; I'm generally in a pretty pathetic state by the 6 hour marker and I've never suffered PWD from only waiting this long.

That said, I *have* triggered PWD before and it's definitely pretty fucking unpleasant.
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You're a rare case then, definitely in the minority. Pretty much anyone else on here I would definitely recommend waiting much longer than 6 hours.

You have to actually be sick with physical WD symptoms. Since your anxiety levels rise so much when you start to WD or the hours before you start to WD, it can make you feel sicker than you actually are. I wait until there are physical symptoms: fatigue, stomach cramps, getting the runs, hot/cold flashes, goosebumps, etc.
 
I went threw a pre wd yesterday from doing a small amount of fent 12 hours before 8 mg of suboxen... One of the worst things I've been threw in my hole life for hours I finally went and got more fent and was worried it wouldn't help but it definitely did so if u wanna know if u can do whatever downer it is after u started to precip wd just do it that shit is not worth it worse withdrawal symptoms ever and as soon as I did some fent I felt fine went to sleep skipped my dose of suboxane the day after didn't do dope The next day and night so il do my suboxane the morning after in the morning I waited 36 hours this time. precipitative withdrawal is not a joke and if ur going threw it just go get high if u only did one does of subs it will still work regardless what everyone else says I searched everywhere to see if it would do me good cause everyone says doing dope won't work after you take it and that is most definitely a lie I hope this helps someone out there cause I wish I saw a post like this when I was going threw it I wouldn't of felt like that for so long it was hell
 
Ownage said:
Ohhhh.. SO the Naloxone affinity is stronger than BUp? I don't believe Naloxone is inactive via orally. I've heard of some people reversing OD effects by putting subs under their tongue.
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Precipitated W/D is mostly caused by the buprenorphine in Subutex and Suboxone. It really has little to do with the Naloxone when taking Suboxone as directed. Very little if any of the Naloxone is absorbed when Suboxone is taken as prescribed. It would be the Bupe that reverses symptoms of an overdose though I would not encourage this practice. Buprenorphine has a higher affinity for the opiate receptors compared to Naloxone. That is why other methods are used to reverse a Buprenorphine overdose on top of an antagonist. People overpower the effects of Naloxone all the time when they abuse Suboxone. Otherwise you would not feel the effects of bupe if you snorted or injected Suboxone which is generally a really bad idea. The NAABT has a great overview about precipitated W/D and what causes such symptoms.
https://www.naabt.org/documents/NAABT_PrecipWD.pdf
 
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I must say, though I love some of the people who know what they're talking about on this website, many many people have no idea what they're talking about.

You should absolutely not take subs after 6 hours unless you have some superpower that keeps you from going into PW. So many people have said how bad, bad, bad PW is yet people still don't listen.

My personal advice is to wait BETWEEN 24-36 hours. I've even gone into mild PW after waiting 36 hours and I was quite sick, but I believe it was mostly due to doing extremely high quality dope for a couple weeks straight. But seriously, just tough it out. It feels sooo much better to wait 36 hours and know for sure you're not gonna get PW than to chance it and fuck up.
 
yeah, I used to be able to get away with it after 12 hours but not anymore. You're supposed to be in full blown withdrawals to take buprenorphine, full blown withdrawals, fast metabolism or not take at least 18 hours to hit, that doesn't mean that you won't feel like shit after 12, you will, but not nearly as shitty as you will after 24 or 36. Withdrawal severity seems to also depend on the context of the situation, like it was weird when I was out on the street just trying to hustle and not making money and it had been 12 or 16 hours since my last fix I would feel like I was just going to die, the desperation would become extreme. But put me in a situation where it's not possible to make money or cop, or at least incredibly hard too (like jail) and I could accept the sickness a lot better and it wouldn't seem nearly as severe. But then, like when I was in jail and found out I was getting released (after 90 hours or so) the withdrawal became unbearable because I started worrying about how i was going to cop and get money and all that good shit.
 
I've gone thru precip wd many times in my career use of opiates. Fentanyl transdermally is the hardest. I will literally wait 6 days before taking suboxone/subutex because of the horror of pw. One time it was like 24 hours after taking a patch off. I was stupid and didn't realize that Fent was different. Most doctors say 72 hours and that STILL puts me in precip. But that one time I took the suboxone after the 24 hour period, I was laying on the couch feeling pretty shitty. But then my pupils dialated, chills and goosebumps, alternating with sweating and stomach cramps and runny bowels took hold within 30 mins. I was so sick, I could not stay still for SEVEN hours. I was so worn out from RLS and this inner horrible restlessness. It took me a week to recover fully. It was unfathomable. But this was with Fentanyl and it was transdermal. On percocet, I could dose suboxone within 15 hours or so. Depends on the substance and your body. Fuck PWD.
 
I think people should stop thinking in terms of "x hours" and gauge it based on how they feel. Yes, as a general rule, wait at least 18 hours...but you might plunge into pwd after 20, its still possible if you weren't in full withdrawal yet.

You have to WAIT until you are in full blown withdrawal. Many people are big babies about it (myself included) and we make it worse than it is, so really wait, dont tap out at hour 12 and then suffer for the next 12 hours writhing like a dumbass man-fish because you couldnt wait. Gabapentin really helped me stretch my sub induction to 38 hours after last H use when I kicked H using subs, fwiw. I still suffered some, but not much. And not as much as if I had hit pwd - I want to sleep on the first night of withdrawal, rules governing the physical universe be damned!
 
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