now that is what i call a MILF!
ForEverAfter;10760659 said:What I'm saying is: ideally they should rely on neither.
(...)
And daily use of - any - drug is bad.
ForEverAfter;10760659 said:Stoners, in general, yes - there are exceptions, tend to be less functional than drinkers. There aren't a lot of high-achieving people, outside of the arts, who smoke weed on a daily basis. They are the exceptions, not the rule. Weed often makes people boring and lazy. Peaceful, too, sure. But boring and lazy all the same...
And what was that crack about being opposed to the war on drugs? Maybe if you'd have close friends and family members locked up for extended periods for no good reason you'd think differently. It tears families apart and ruins lives. And you feel the need to mock those of us that are humane and competent enough to oppose such a thing? You come off as a frustrated individual. Maybe try some cannabis to calm you down.
ForEverAfter;10763630 said:Heroin is illegal because it fucks up people's lives. The same can be said, to a lesser extent, about marijuana.
Strongly disagree.ForEverAfter;10763630 said:Cheech and Chong type activists are pro-drug propagandists. They are no better than the anti-drug propagandists.
I think being really stoned all day everyday usually causes problems, the same way being drunk all day everyday usually causes problems. I'd probably rather be addicted to weed than alcohol though.
Both of them are fine in moderation though.
Marijuana became illegal because of a scare campaign, and stays illegal because big industries stand to lose money if it is legalized. Alcohol, which fucks up more people's lives to a greater degree, remains legal.
Cheech and Chong are reacting to a immoral system of bias and propaganda.
they are far, far better than those who would "protect" us from nature's plants
The right to alter consciousness should be a fundamental freedom. It is a desire found in every culture, in every stage of human history - even animals like to get high/drunk. We owe it to people to legalize all drugs. The best protection from the dangers of drugs lies in a solid, science-based approach to education, which means throwing out the DARE propaganda. Other than that, some age- and experience-based licensing system for drug use could prevent children, and those without enough knowledge/experience, from using (strong) drugs.
You had a negative experience you attribute to cannabis.
And no, I don't believe cannabis is pure good, but this lazy, stupid, and unsuccessful stereotype is wrong.
I also have to disagree that opposing the drug war is in fact contributing to it (unless I misunderstand you). Maybe it contributes to the battle over the war on drugs, but not the war itself. You have to be on one side or the other, otherwise you'd have to not care about the millions of people who have been affected by it and those who it will affect.
I agree nothing is plain black or white, and many people here will try to paint a rosy picture of cannabis use, but I feel you're doing just the opposite, making it out to be worse than it is.
Another thing real quick, now way in hell is a hardcore alcoholic more productive than a hardcore stoner. At least if you're stoned out of your gourd you can still talk, walk, and piss where you're supposed to.
You seem to be denying that it has any negative effects whatsoever... ? If it doesn't demotivate, then what would you say are the negative impacts of the drug?
How old are you, if you don't mind me asking?
I can also guarantee there are a lot of people that you wouldn't know were smokers, and definitely won't volunteer that information.
Cannabis Sativa is really quite different in its effect. Most people I've talked to would say sativas are cerebral, invigorating, and energetic with much less of a "body" effect, if any at all. Some sativas are even a bit racy, and cause anxiety if used in excess due to over-stimulation. When someone tells me they dislike marijuana, I usually tell them they're smoking the wrong type. Even though I say it jokingly, there's some truth to it. A lot of people haven't experienced cannabis that motivates, but I can assure you, it's out there.
And of course I was referring to the stereotypical drunk when talking about functionality. You were talking about the stereotypical stoner, were you not?
I'd also hazard a guess that alcohol has more of a negative impact on the mind than cannabis. It's been proven to cause short-term memory loss just as cannabis has.
Also have to disagree about opiate addicts being more functional. I've met and talked with people of both worlds, and many opiate users get to the point where they can no longer maintain or afford their habit, and resort to underhanded things that they would normally never do just to keep up with it. I've also seen a few people nodding out at work, and thats anything but functional.
Negative stereotypes and fear of judgment drive people in to the shadows. Thats why I hope we can dispel the myths and stereotypes, and do our best not to make generalizations about any group of people.
You seem to be denying that it has any negative effects whatsoever... ? If it doesn't demotivate, then what would you say are the negative impacts of the drug?
How old are you, if you don't mind me asking?
ForEverAfter;10764398 said:I didn't say it became illegal because it fucks up people's lives. I said it is illegal because it fucks up people's lives. Through observation, parents and school teachers can clearly recognize that it is demotivational and that it threatens the "progress" of society. Although it is preferable to alcohol - I have never denied this - it is still causes problems.
ForEverAfter;10764398 said:They are capitalizing on a niche. I find little moral commentary in them dressing up like idiots and repeating the same bad jokes for four decades. They are contributing to one extreme of the argument, which is: drugs are harmless/ drugs are cool.
ForEverAfter;10764398 said:As I said, I believe drugs should be legal. But that's not going to solve the problem. Look at Portugal. There have been improvements since legalization, but the issues to drug use remain. Education is idealistic. The problems will always remain, to a certain extent. Marijuana will always fuck up some people's lives. It, like all drugs, should be approached with caution.
Cyc said:I've come to rekindle my romance with weed and I think that used judiciously and infrequently, it has many, many benefits.
Diane Fornbacher said:"You rarely find a story that says two stoners beat each other up outside of a bar.”
DriverDave said:Absolutely spot on!
And on the other hand we all know how alcohol makes everyone so friendly...
xxxsicknesxxx said:people who get drunk shouldn't judge anyone
me said:I didn't say it became illegal because it fucks up people's lives. I said it is illegal because it fucks up people's lives. Through observation, parents and school teachers can clearly recognize that it is demotivational and that it threatens the "progress" of society. Although it is preferable to alcohol - I have never denied this - it is still causes problems.
slimvictor said:Many things "cause problems". Loud music makes people go deaf. Sugar gives people diabetes. Aluminum gives people Alzheimer's. Cars and planes cause accidents.
slimvictor said:Who should be the one to judge which threaten "progress", and which don't?
For me, a society in which everyone is addicted to marijuana could easily be preferable to the violent, materialistic society that is Western Culture.
I agree that Cheech and Chong are capitalizing on a niche, but there is moral commentary in there, whether it is apparent to you or not (and whether they explicitly state it or not). They refuse to compromise and give in to immoral, oppressive drug laws.
I don't think that they (Cheech and Chong) are saying drugs are not harmful - they portray "brain-dead", unmotivated stoners, right? Exactly the personality traits you described earlier as dangerous aspects of cannabis use.
slimvictor said:Just because education is not "perfect" (in that it cannot assure 100% safety and lack of harm in all cases) does not mean it is idealistic. It is the most excellent, peaceful form of power, and it is free. If you think it will solve all the problems in the world, maybe your view is idealistic, but education itself is the foundation of freedom.
slimvictor said:If drugs will always be linked to problems in some cases, it is no reason to deny the right to use drugs to all people in all cases (as I think you will agree).
slimvictor said:In any case, I really enjoy arguing with you. You have well-thought out, bold, unconventional (at least around here) opinions, and you support them passionately.
slimvictor said:Let's keep going!