Opioids possible to be immune to precipitated withdrawal from bupe/subutex????

[kratomized]

Ok please dont judge that I have abused opiates in the past....I have had them prescribed for pain and thus ended up with a problem....I normally maintain with kratom and it treats me very well for the most part....and now on to my question;

So the general consensus is that if one is already on an opioid medication/substance if one is to take subs one will go into a ferocious unmistakable precipitated withdrawal immediately. I have zero experience with subs but in this particular instance it was subutex. Anyway a friend of mine got these prescribed recently and she said she loves them....I mean as a medicine improving her quality of life as opposed to the morphine she was prescribed...she was on morphine for a herniated disk.... Anyway she asked me if I would like to try it and I had never been interested but this particular night I had taken 30mg (3 yellow norcos) for dental pain...needless to say I was feeling great...as it wore off I decided I would try a CRUMB of the pink 8mg subutex pill...this crumb ended up being probably 1 mg give or take..... within ten minutes I was so inebriated I couldnt walk...I did this ignorantly without knowing how subs were purportedly supposed to work...so why didnt I go into immediate withdrawal? For what its worth before I took these norcos that night I was clean from all meds for many months only maintaining on my daily kratom....so what gives???

TLTR- had 30 mg hydrocodone in my system. Three hours after taking the hydro I took 1mg subutex and it only added to the opiate effect...no withdrawals. Why?

 

[tacodude]

6-8 hours is the minimum to be ok depending on opiate, but 12 hours is minimum amount of time to wait while 24 hours is optimal

 

[kratomized]

Hey tacodude!! I used to have a different handle and lost my password/email////weve talked before....I sued to be called Alladdin....anyway what Im saying is that I took 1mg bupe 3 hours AFTER 30mg hydro...I was still fully feeling the hydro and the bupe actually got me wasted and increased the hydro thay was in my system before hand....this shouldnt have happened according to everything Ive read....these were the pink 8mg subutex pills with the crescent moon on them

 

[tacodude]

When you say took it you let it absorb sublingual right?

 

[Znegative]

are you opiate dependent or do you just take opiates frequently, I couldn't really tell? Either way your tolerance is pretty low if you're able to get high off thirty milligrams of hydrocodone, Buprenorphine is a much more potent opioid, so it's not surprising that 1mg would get you wasted and not send you into precipitated withdrawals.

 

[kratomized]

When you say took it you let it absorb sublingual right?

Yeah...I did as my friend directed...held it under my tongue for 10 mins or so...I think I see where you might be going with this...that perhaps I swalowed it and the placebo effect kicked in, which is a very valid assumption or even possibility, however after holding it under my tongue for said amount of time I had a huuuge wave of euphoria, felt unstable on my feet, sweaty palms and a surge of energy, much like Id get from a good amount of oxy....Im certain that what i felt was an opiate effect and was "high" as hell after taking it......interestingly , Im bascally always on kratom and I decided to try another two mg of this subutex a few days later...it was about an hour after an 7 gram kratom dose (my usual) and again no issues with withdrawal or any effects that would suggest that...just opiate euphoria again that lasted a good 10 solid hours...just like the first time...what do you think may be happening here....again these are subUTEX not suboxone if that makes much of difference...the latter contains an opiate antagonist (naltraxone?) I believe....and the former is buprenorphene only

 

[kratomized]

are you opiate dependent or do you just take opiates frequently, I couldn't really tell? Either way your tolerance is pretty low if you're able to get high off thirty milligrams of hydrocodone, Buprenorphine is a much more potent opioid, so it's not surprising that 1mg would get you wasted and not send you into precipitated withdrawals.

No Im only dependant on kratom...and have had little problem tapering in the past....Ive messed with just about every opiate you can imagine...I just never let myself get out of hand...always returning to kratom as a safety net so to speak...I did get dependant on hydrocodone many years ago and thats what got me started with kratom....long story short Im extremely dependant on kratom (about an ounce a day for three years with a few short breaks)

The thing is if I go without kratom I do go into an acute withdrawal phase...so wouldnt the bupe still cause this effect, considering theres stil some sort of opiod binding to my MU recepters, even though its not heavy?


Edit- as an aside I find the yellow 10s are MUCH stronger than any other hydro 10s Ive ever had...thats no myth...and thats what I had that night...dont know if that makes much of a difference


Sorry about the dbl post guys...was an accident

 

[tacodude]

It's because you're not tolerant to poppy alkaloids based opiates or whatnot as I think Kratom is not really cross tolerant with it.

 

[dopemaster]

I dunno how kratom is considered an opiate tbph.

Anyways as far as bupe which just does not agree with me, I usually have to wait between 36 to 72 hours to not go into precipitated wds.

I really doubt that will apply to you though and only maybe a few people here that are very heavy users.

I never really saw the point in taking the shit after going through about half the pain when you could I dunno, take just about any amount of the weakest of pain pills to avoid fullscale wds. If I can hold down food and stand up, it is no issue getting off opiates, just time and physical pain.

 

[WasteLand Warrior]

You probably don't have a habit and like Z negative said suboxone is super potent contrary to what most people think so yea i can see y u got rocked off it!! But suboxone has a long half life and the naloxone in it will block ur opiate receptors for a good couple days so i would'nt do anymore hydrocodone for good couple days you won't b able to feel them!!!! So if u got anymore wait at least 2 days even 3 or it will b a total waste you won't feel them

 

[Znegative]

Well, technically it's the buprenorphine that's blocking the opiate receptors, and really I wouldn't fuck with them anymore in general because what you're going to do is raise your tolerance more than anything else. Believe me you are not immune to precipitated withdrawals. Many people find that they can easily take subs after their last full agonist fix in way under 24 hours, but also find that over time they have more and more difficulty switching back to the subs and have to wait longer and longer or they will go into very real precipitated withdrawals. Basically, if you start fucking around with more heavy duty opiates and in the future try to take subs 7 hours later, you will realize that you too, are susceptible to the pain and suffering that is precipitated withdrawals. All that being said, precipitated withdrawals should usually only last a few hours MAX, usually for me they lasted about 45 minutes. The exception would be if you took suboxone while on methadone maintenance, or took it too soon after a super potent opioid like fentanyl or oxymorphone that has your tolerance too high for the buprenorphine to completely negate the withdrawals, once it replaces the other opiates on the receptors.

 

[neversickanymore]

You're not physically dependent on opiates (yet) so you wont have precipitated withdrawal.

 

[Znegative]

well, even if the OP is dependent on kratom, or if he was say dependent on low dosages of say, codeine or hydrocodone, I still don't think he would have precipitated withdrawal because buprenorphine is so much more potent. Like, I've never heard of someone with a hydro habit going through precipitated withdrawals (though I'm sure someone has), more often than not it's the people that were addicted to hydro or low dose oxy that report getting blasted when they take suboxone.

 

[kratomized]

You're not physically dependent on opiates (yet) so you wont have precipitated withdrawal.

Well when I run out of kratom....I get weak, restless, anxious, depressed , leaky faced, skin crawling sensation, insane insomnia (the restlessness is maddening ) loose/stools/runs, pain in joints etc....also I was getting kratom at one point that was SOOOO strong that when I ran out of it... no matter how much hydro I took I would feel nothing.


If I run out of kratom I call around for a few OCs or 2 1/4 lb bags of middle east imported poppy seeds to make me feel ok....Ive noticed it requires about 15 -20 mg oxy to feel better plus mild euphoria to boot......Im bot takingthis for granted...Ive only tasted whats to come come if I decide to join the big leagues...But I still think that this is a real dependance...I just think the magnitutde of a kratom dependency has a ceiling...its sucks to withdraw from it....but it looks traumatiing to have to detox from a real OP....and kratom should definitely stay legal .....its a great tool ...it has been for me and Im sure with diligence the hardest OP addict can step down to kratom and jump from there..

My frend thta let me try the subs got kratom from me for awhile...she had never heard of it...shes sort of an older soccer mom type...herniated disc RXed 100-200 morphine a day ....she fucking hates its...tried kratom and LOVED IT she said it worked great for everything ...kept her well and all..but it didnt do much for her pain unfortunatly...but this just goes to show that kratom is certainly cross tolerant with poppy based opioids

 

[cjh1221]

Interesting topic here. Bup is converted to norbuprenorphine which is a μ-opioid, δ-opioid, and nociceptin receptor full agonist, but a k-opioid partial agonist. Therefore I would imagine that activity at K is responsible for precipitated withdrawal. Since Kratom isn't active on that receptor, maybe it really doesn't affect kratom in the same way as most other opioids. This is pure speculation though, i've never tried it and probably never would just due to being scared of PWs. Naloxone on the other hand, is a full μ-opioid antagonist, but is uneffective at precipitating withdrawal at dosages less than roughly 4mg.

Found this on an older thread....not sure how true it is but it does seem to make a little sense.

Here is the full thread: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/662760-Will-Kratom-interfere-with-Suboxone-induction

NAMASTE

 

[kratomized]

^^^Cool, Thanks for the link!

 

[cjh1221]

Anytime

Edit:

Ok please dont judge that I have abused opiates in the past....I have had them prescribed for pain and thus ended up with a problem....

No one here will judge you....it's likely most of us have either been or are in a similar situation as you. If someone is an asshole.....just put them on ignore....they aren't worth your time. If you don't feel safe coming here for help and support, we're all doing something wrong.

NAMASTE