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Cards Poker (Texas Hold'em)

Mehm

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poker strategy

Do ya'll play poker? I like texas hold 'em best because it is easy and everyone plays it.

Recently, i've decided to learn a lot about this hobby. So far, it seems like knowing the odds and playing off of them is the best style.

Do ya'll play, what sites or b&m locations do you play at, and where do you look to learn strategy, odds, and proper bet placement?

peace
 
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Mehm

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^^i've noticed that the competition is much tougher in money games. IE I always win play money but am in the hole 50$ in three days playing cash.

as a result, I've sworn it off (real money games) until I finish a few books and have a better grasp over the odds.
 

THR!

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Oh yeah, it's a different kettle of fish. For one, your luck is fucked when playing for real cash.
 

BA

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Good thread here on Poker: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=197546&highlight=poker

There used to be a .pdf file in there posted by Stasis (I hope it still works). Print that out and read it.
It worked great for me, and gave me some good tips on when to raise in what position, when to re-raise, how much to raise, when to bluff, the difference between a good hand and a marginal hand, etc.
 

shahab6

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Practice on partypoker, or some other website, then once you have enough practice, start playing for money.
Its different when you play for money.
 

Mehm

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Thanks BA. Unfortunately, stasis's link didn't work.

I definitely think playing for money makes a huge difference.

I've also been reading about keeping logs on everyone you play with, this seems helpful. Also, I've been debating the morals of having all the out and pre-flop odds right in front of me as I play. Since its the internet, which is fundementally different than "real life", I'm begining to think its just a disadvantage to not have odds right in front of me. What do ya'll think?
 

Mehm

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what about software packages that track player statistics. I've heard poker stat is a good one but find it a bit cumbersome. Any suggestions in that field?
 

BA

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Id recommend playing on pokerroom.com for a little while to get some idea of how online play works. There is no bullshit spyware infested software to download, all you do is register a screen name and start playing. You start off with $1000 play money and can refill up to 2X per day. You can also play for real money there too.

Here is a look at the interface, see what you think.

 

Mehm

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^Thanks for the suggestion. However, Party Poker looks to be about the same interface. They have play money games as well. I like party poker because it seems to be one of the biggest, which tells me (maybe erroneously) that they are the most secure.

I'm more wondering about poker tracking software though. This software tracks all hands played down to the minute detail (it tracks everyone at the table). With it, one can build a database on all of the people he or she plays with. This information is valuable because it gives you an idea of a competitor's total earnings or losses, what they tend to call/raise/fold on, how many flops they see, if they've been caught bluffing and if their bluffs are successful..basically how good they are and their style of play. By knowing this info, one can pick favorable games, avoid sharks, and basically have an incredible read on people before the first hand is even dealt. It seems to me that utilizing this software is a MUST for internet play if one expects to win in the long run.

Beyond having a "book" (as its called) on one's opponents. I think the best thing to do is play middle of the road, statistical poker. This means calculating pot and hand odds every time, then calling raises accordingly. To be conservative, only the most excellent draws should be raised..while nuts should be raised/check raised mercilessly. Also, bluffing rarely works and should be avoided.

Do you have any specific strategies that you play with?
 

BA

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That site I said allows you to keep logs on players, and leave notes, etc. You right click the person, and select "classify player" and it allows you to leave personalized notes.

As far as strategies, I could write until my finger tips fell off. ;) If Im dealer, and nobody raises before me I will usually raise regardles with what I have. This puts you in the position to act LAST after the flop, if everyone limps in after the flop or checks, bet strong again. They'll probably figure you connected with whatever you had, or have high pocket pair.

Knowing this, be aware of others doing this same move. Re-raise someone you catch systematically raising from the dealer spot or to the right of the dealer. You can't make the raise enough for them to easily call you - make it count. If the blinds are 10/20 and the dealer raises to 40, raise it to 100 or higher. (for example)

From experience, don't slow play a winning hand. If you flop a set BET IT! Don't fiddlefuck around and let players catch full houses or flushes, etc. Same goes when flopping 2 pairs. If you flop 4 to a flush, start betting like you know the 5th card is coming. Ive won more flushes this way than Ive lost. The pot is bigger by the time you win compared to if you just checked it down.

If you have pocket jacks, do not fuck around and make small raises so people with marginal hands have a chance at beating you. Don't let that dude with suited 9-10 call you, make him dump that hand so you don't get burned and he ends up flopping 2 pair or a good shot at a flush. With Jacks, if the blinds are 10/20 raise pre-flop to 100 so only those with premium hands even consider calling (for examples sake). If an Ace or King turn up you're most likely fucked, because you had to figure they'd call that raise with one of those cards. But it the board turns up all numbers bet STRONG again. Fire out another 150 or so.

I could go on and on...
 

alasdairm

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playing for play money is a diversion and, to me, of little use for practice. people just don't play the game when playign for pretened money - why not call when there's no cost to calling? people will do things with play money they would never think about with real cash. in real money games, people (generally) respect a decent bet.

that said, in my opinion, the best place to play is in real life - whether that be your preferred home game or in a casino. online, there's still at least one level of abstraction from the money. i get the feeling that, for some people, clicking a mouse is still not sufficiently like moving physical chips enough to make them think twice about a marginal call/whatever.

for me, there's no substitute for casino tournaments.

as ba said, there are 1000 theories and i believe there's no rigid theory which applies in all cases. you have to learn to adapt. my advice, learn the importance of position and how it affect s play. most of the mistakes i see in real life and online arise from poor position plays.

alasdair
 

day_for_night

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alasdairm said:
playing for play money is a diversion and, to me, of little use for practice. people just don't play the game when playign for pretened money - why not call when there's no cost to calling? people will do things with play money they would never think about with real cash. in real money games, people (generally) respect a decent bet.

that said, in my opinion, the best place to play is in real life - whether that be your preferred home game or in a casino. online, there's still at least one level of abstraction from the money. i get the feeling that, for some people, clicking a mouse is still not sufficiently like moving physical chips enough to make them think twice about a marginal call/whatever.

for me, there's no substitute for casino tournaments.

as ba said, there are 1000 theories and i believe there's no rigid theory which applies in all cases. you have to learn to adapt. my advice, learn the importance of position and how it affect s play. most of the mistakes i see in real life and online arise from poor position plays.

alasdair

agreed. playing for play money is a complete waste of time. people would NEVER bet the way they do if there was real money on the line. the only way to get good at poker is to play for money. go to a local casino and play the 3-6 limit table. limit poker is tough cause you need a good hand and a good flop to have any hope (especially at bigger tables), but its a good place to start out. starting at a no-limit table is rough cause you can get put all in on your first hand, which will intimidate the shit out of a rookie.

pick up a poker strategy book and read up. pay attention to the people you play against. watch for the overly aggressive types and the very defensive players. the overly aggressive ones raise with anything and try to bully people out of pots. defensive players only play when they have monster hands, so if they are raising you better watch out.
 
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JV

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-T{H}R- said:
I play at PokerStars (www.pokerstars.com) - but only using play money, not real money.
same here. but i agree w/ alasdair and day about the play money. what is a little better when playing w/ play money is getting into the pokerstars freeroll tournaments. do you ever play those thr?
 

Mehm

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BA: Your strategy always leaves me poor, so I don't use it my self ;)
I don't really know the extensiveness of that specific sight's statistical software, but I question if it's as in depth as Poker Stat. That program logs every hand in every game you play. It then creates a database based on that log.

For instance, if I had played a bunch of hands against you in the past, your log would reveal an aggressive player who bluffs often and wins many hands uncontested. Because of this, I would put a lot more faith in my good hands in the face of your aggressive raising. The program also has plugins that use a filter to rate each person you have a record on based on winnings, play style, etc. I feel like this is much more in depth than the typical note boxes found on any site (which require a player to manually log notes instead of the automatic nature of Poker Stat).

why dont people just use probability computers or something for online poker? It seems all too eazy
they do!!! that is one BIG difference between online and IRL poker. However, typical software focuses on keeping "book" on opponents. This is because figuring odds is preatty easy..especially if one has a printed chart hanging on the wall next to their computer. Also, getting everything to interface and work right is a challenge that most are not willing to take on.

that said, in my opinion, the best place to play is in real life - whether that be your preferred home game or in a casino. online, there's still at least one level of abstraction from the money. i get the feeling that, for some people, clicking a mouse is still not sufficiently like moving physical chips enough to make them think twice about a marginal call/whatever.
In the right light, that is even more reason to play online. If you can take your virtual money seriously..while others don't..capitalizing on their loose play is that much easier. Other differences between online and casino play includes outside distractions, substance use (smoking weed, easily drinking etc.), cheat sheats, statistical programs, lack of common tells, etc. The online game is different than IRL, which isn't necessarily bad.
 

phishEcLOVEr

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I play on Party Poker and World Poker Exchange (WPX). I sometimes play no limit cash tables but what I have found to be of most value for your money are the SIT and GO tables. Basically you buy in for 5 - 10 - 20 - 50 $$ with 10 people and then top 3 take earnings. You don't win that much, for example a $10 sit and go tourney 1st place takes $50. but whats cool is that you get to play with 2000 in chips and all you can lose is what u bought in with. It's really good for experience, and honestly I have found if you play very passive (ie only playing with strong hands) and then agressive when your hand hits you are pretty much sure to get at least your money back...
 

BA

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alasdairm said:
people just don't play the game when playign for pretened money - why not call when there's no cost to calling?
While this sounds good in theory, if that were really the case everyone would call every raise every time and there would be no folding. I can't argue that real money teaches you the better lesson with regards to poker, but occasionally I find a table where people seemingly act as if the fake money is real and they hate to part with it. I can't explain the logic in that, but it does happen. While I don't recommend taking everything you "learn" playing online poker with fake money into the real world, but I can't call it a "complete waste of time."
 

alasdairm

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^ well, as with all things, your mileage varies.

very occasionally i'll find a play-money table or tourney where 90% of the players are trying to play 'properly' but there's always one idiot who just goes all-in every hand. while this strategy rarely pays off in the long-term, it just creates a huge amount of annoyance in the short.

alasdair
 

thizzSantaCruz

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Play money is no place to learn the game of poker. You have to be willing to suck up a decent bank roll defecit in the beggining of your poker career because trust me you will be in the hole for a while. It is the nature of the game.

There is nothing like learning from experience, you can use all your cheat sheets anytime and read 100 proffesional poker books but if you have never touched real chips in a real money game it will not do you nearly as good. Deposit a decent amount of money, earn the deposit bonus (make sure you max out your deposit bonus, I am not sure how much you would have to deposit at partypoker to do this). After playing and experiencing real poker play from there is when the books will help your game.

Another hint I have for you is do not restrict yourself to just party poker. As a new player you may experience some flucuations in your bank roll so collect on as many deposit bonuses as you can by opening accounts at many different sites. After you start to consistantly make money you will have decided which of the sites you like best. Through firepay or neteller it will be easy to transfer your funds from one site to another.

You may also like different poker sites for different reasons. You may like party poker for the abundance of fish and donkeys everywhere that basically hand out free money. You may like paradise poker for the great tournaments they have daily. Basically you have to try everything out. Poker is one of the easiest games to play but one of the hardest to become good at.

Good luck I hope to see you at a table sometime.
 
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