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Played with Fire and Got Burned - Need Help with Sub Taper

Enough999

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
112
I have been posting frequently on this site regarding my grueling Xanax taper. I'm also a former IV heroin user. Except at this moment I'm an active IV heroin user. I was tapering at .5 mg of Xanax a week and started snorting smack every few days to help sleep. I knew I was in dangerous territory and did it anyway. A few weeks ago (about every 5 days, with the exception of one 2 day run) I started using more frequently. Then I picked the needle back up. I shot one bag Monday night, one last night, and 2 tonight. This may sound ridiculous but I know I'm going to feel withdrawals. My brain is hard wired and I refused to believe it. I have 10.5 mg of sub left. I want to cut this cancer out now. I'm also putting my taper on hold, he'll
I might end up going up on the Xanax if things get rough enough. I want to maximize the effectiveness of the subs I have without having to updose as I'm finally at 2 mg and if I can stay there I have a good shot at getting switched to Valium. Any advice for a schedule? And to everyone I've reached out to who warned me about using opiates to help - you were all one hundred percent right.
 
Imo sublingual as you don't want to insufflate nasty fillers/binders

You should do a really quick taper with the bupe, like 1mg 0.5mg 0.25mg jump or something like that, but don't forget that you have to be in withdrawal when inducing

And for your benzo taper, check out the Ashton manual if you haven't already :)
 
Sup man, (first most definitely sublingual)
for I have done this in detox centers so many times , and also doing this at home 3x on my own...I hope I can shed some light with what's worked for me and what I think will work for you (I'm no doctor at all, just a past junkie that happened to make things work with subs)

for the amount you were doing and if you can't do it cold turkey(obviously not ur choice), then I would suggest what kleinerkiffler recommended except if your like me and can't mentally just do 3 days or such a small amount to start (even though u should be able to, but everyone's different) then I would do 4mg, 2mg, 1mg, .5mg and just jump OR 3-4mg, 2.0-1.5mg, 1mg , 0.5mg then jump or wait a day and another .5 then jump...

with a heavy habitat I was able to do 8mg, 6mg, 4mg, 4mg (2mg morning-2mg-night), 2mg wait a day 1mg, jump on two occasions with pretty much no acute Wds at all... and I have done a really odd random one that actually got accidentally messed up with 4mg, 4mg, 8mg, 4mg, 2mg, 2mg, and I think I jumped there or did 1mg then jumped and I had a decent detox, but day 4-6 off subs was a little rough man but nothing actually legit acute... but that was with a weird taper I don't reccomend
 
No access to gaba or predagab, just benzo that I was trying to taper with, and subs
 
X2 on the gabapentin/Lyrica. Dose 12-24mg of imodium. depending on how much heroin you've been using, 1g+/day habits may require a TOUCH more loperamide like possibly 36mg total every 48hrs but NO megadoses. Wake up and take the 12mg imodium. Wait two hours and take another 12mg.

Two hours later, dose 800-1200mg of Gabapentin. Wait two hours.

You should now be starting to feel noticeably better. Separation between dosing loperamide and Gabapentin seems to work better as they both take a LONG time to work initially. You'll wanna scale back on the loperamide quick and replace it with 400-800mg of Gabapentin every 45min until you're out of withdrawal or fucked up enough.

After about 4g of Gabapentin, you WON'T get any higher. Tolerance builds quickly and so does dependence. If 3.2g doesn't get you were you wanna be, ACQUIRE XANAX/VALIUM and take low doses while you completely stop the gabapentin. The withdrawals are hellish and start 36hrs+ in for longer term habits.

Low doses of benzos won't replace gabapentin during the worst of your withdrawal. In full opiate withdrawal, give me a full bottle of 800mg gabapentin over a couple 2mg Xanax bars any day.

So to sum it up, the sweet spot for moderately dosed loperamide (<40mg) and high dose gabapentin (<4.5g) is priority number one in making you feel better. You'll know when you're at the sweet spot because you'll feel ZERO withdrawal.

Xanax, Clonidine, Ambien, are all honorable mentions. Not a bad idea, but not gonna stop your brain from sending signal flares for help due to empty opiate receptors like gabapentin and immodium will.
 
Be careful with gabapentin ....
Thought it was a wonder drug. There's no free lunches in nature you always pay to play, usually with interest too.
I posted a thread about my experience I quit about 1 month ago exactly the first 2 weeks were death and I'm an IV h user plus benzos.
 
Telling the OP to take gabapentin/pregabalin when he clearly stated that he has no access is kinda redundant..
 
Did I read right? Four bags in the span of a week? ECP as in 4 out of a bundle? If that's the case, subs would be like using a grenade on an ant. Can you clarify? I would hate to see you make your problems worse. Your wd would be so minimal if at all. I would just stabilize on your benzo for now and hold off on reducing until you feel in control again. If I misinterpreted your use then ignore the post.
 
You didn't mis interpret anything. I've been using on and off for so long that anything over a day long run is got g to start me back in withdrawals. I don't know if it's all in my head, I've gone too many times through getting readdicted, or its changing states to a state with lower quality but higher fentanyl cut, but I still felt symptoms being masked. By the subs. When will I be in the clear to stop? Down to day 4 at .5 sub
 
That's low af cut down to 0.25mg today or tomorrow and jump whenever you want..... I'm IVing 4mg and have only a few left I'm in a different situation (aka "totally fucked")
 
Get off the subs asap. I truly believe with that small amount the wds are in your head. I think if you are not physically reliant on heroin and it's in your head you are doing a disservice to your body and will create a physical dependency by putting yourself on maintenance when it's not necessary. As hard as it may be, you need to just use your willpower at this point. If you really feel small symptoms just try the recommended dose of Imodium. Of course you feel good when you take the sub! 3 days of willpower and your body will be clear of the H. Unless of course this whole thing isn't about physical wds at all. Is it? If it's all mental then you will have the same issue post sub.
 
My "patented" Suboxone rapid taper formula:

THIS IS FOR A SERIOUS HABIT.

If you are really taking only 4 bags a day, you just need to tough it out. It won't be bad. Although do pay attention to anxiety and depression issues and testosterone levels after quitting (see below, and ignore everything related to Suboxone; you will just fuck yourself up more.)

IF YOU INDEED HAVE A SERIOUS HABIT:

(And this is also posted for posterity)

This is a slight departure from medical orthodoxy and a definitive departure from the box insert, but it is considerably more comfortable, but you need access to a decent amount of Suboxone at least for the beginning.

1. At first sign of withdrawal, take 8mg of Suboxone. ********this is too much if you have a small habit, and you shouldn't be bothering with suboxone anyway if that's the case
2. Every 30 minutes feeling precipitated withdrawal, take an additional 1-2mg. ******ditto
3. You will wind up at quite high a dose (12-32mg probably) ****ditto
4. Immediately down to 8mg, or 12mg if 8mg is intolerable. ****you get the idea
5. Down to 4mg, 1mg per day.
6. Down to 2mg, 0.5mg per day.
7. Down to 0.125mg, halving dose each day, using if necessary nasal RoA or a medicine-dropper.

This is if you don't want to stay on long-term; otherwise stop at step 5 or at 8mg and a gradual taper to 4mg, which I would consider an ideal maintenance dose.

Notes:

Contrary to popular belief, precipated withdrawal can be defeated by increasing Suboxone dose, the dose just has to be large, as it will occupy all of the μ-receptors eventually, even the ones that it has kicked off your typical μ-agonist like heroin, hence steps 1 & 2.

Going down to microgram amounts is essential, jumping off at 1-2mg+ is asking for trouble, you need to drop off very low.

The inital taper may be difficult. Benadryl, loperamide, alcohol, benzos, ibuprofen, etc. all can be helpful but do not get yourself into trouble with any of them in terms of excessive doses or developing a new addiction. Do not overdo it with loperamide, all that stuff about it being an opioid substitute is a joke and even when it works it is seriously toxic and a bad idea. Taking shitloads of Benadryl is bad. You obviously don't want to sink into alcoholism or a benzo addiction that is not sustainable with a prescription.

Postacute issues including depression are extremely common; jumping off very low is the best way to avoid them, but it is not a bad idea to get yourself on an antidepressant (Wellbutrin, some of the newer quasi-SSRIs are good choices), gabapentin/pregabalin, a benzodiazepine, not that this will avert the depression entirely; it won't, you will need to work on getting exercise, getting out and interacting with people positively.

It is essential to get your testosterone checked and probably get on testosterone supplementation, even if this means your testosterone levels will be a bit above normal. This will help in many ways, although you have to be careful not to get to the point where your body really stops producing testosterone on itself (there is loads about this in the bodybuilding/steroid community, I'd refer you to that as it is not my area of expertise.)

This post or any of my communications do not constitute professional advice nor do they establish a professional relationship of any kind; I make no claim to any specific professional credentials; in person consultation is essential for any medical, psychological, substance-related or harm reduction decisions. While peer support an advice can be helpful, any content posted online, regardless of it's source, cannot, by it's very nature, substitute for an in-person relationship with a clinician who has had the opportunity to take your history in the larger context and provide professional advice with all these factors, and others, taken into account.
 
I would have much preferred to do this without sub, but after so many times of being on and off h, it really only takes me 2 days of consecutive use to find myself hooked again.
 
skipping days, if you tolerate it well, is an excellent way to taper

another useful thing to do is alternate (in your case; just adjust the math appropriately for almost any dose given the long T12) .5/.25/.5..... and gradually go down

This post or any of my communications do not constitute professional advice nor do they establish a professional relationship of any kind; I make no claim to any specific professional credentials; in person consultation is essential for any medical, psychological, substance-related or harm reduction decisions. While peer support an advice can be helpful, any content posted online, regardless of it's source, cannot, by it's very nature, substitute for an in-person relationship with a clinician who has had the opportunity to take your history in the larger context and provide professional advice with all these factors, and others, taken into account.
 
I'm trying to skip today but my skin is definitely crawling. I can't tell if it's from the subs or the H. I can't believe such a short run caused this.
 
Today is day 7 no dope, yesterday and the day before I was down to .5. Not sure if I should push through or take .5 before bed
 
The cravings are also so strong today. I'm at the breaking point and I don't know what to do.
 
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