Planning a 6-month recovery & abstinence from Adderall overuse. Seeking tips, ideas, & recommendations.

[change2020]

Hello, and thank you from the bottom of my heart to anyone able to read through and chime in. Really.

At the start of 2020, I will be able to get inpatient treatment that I can afford at the facilities in this network (Cigna PPO): https://www.cigna.com/assets/docs/b...e-use/2017/designated-substance-use-flyer.pdf

Fortunately, I do think I could still afford out-of-network inpatient treatment at a facility not on that list if there were some justification for it, even though the % of the cost covered would be much less.

I am leaning toward a facility near New York (where I currently live) or California (where I am from), with a slight preference toward California simply b/c I have more family there. I would absolutely pursue a program located elsewhere if it was more tailored to my Adderall overuse background, the associated effects, and my general mental health/psychiatric issues, but I am not aware of one.

I am relieved to see some facilities on the in-network list that I have heard of and looked into before (e.g. Betty Ford in Southern California, Silver Hill Hospital in Connecticut and not far from NY) but still want to gain more familiarity before deciding on one.

If anyone has insight or can point me toward good resources for selecting an inpatient facility for starting my treatment, I would greatly appreciate that.

After inpatient rehab, I plan on continuing treatment through outpatient programs while living with family in Northern California during most of the remainder of my 6-month planned abstinence from Adderall and recovery time. And I do know of a harm reduction philosophy (which is my preferred philosophy) LGBTQ-oriented (which applies to me) outpatient program (a couple group meetings per week and a weekly one-on-one session) in San Francisco that might be a good fit for the tail-end of my 6 months plan, but I also want to research more options, especially options that might meet more often (e.g. an intensive outpatient program or partial hospitalization program).

Any tips for researching and finding outpatient treatment options (including the terminology generally used for the different levels or approaches of treatment) are greatly appreciated.

My Adderall overuse resulted in some "paradoxical" effects. I would mostly oversleep, overeat, and need to lay down frequently even if not to sleep. I ended up gaining 100 pounds and at the peak of my overuse and misuse around 2016, I was more or less bedridden, slept much of the day, would quickly get exhausted, dizzy, and excessively sweat from even minimal activity like trying to do laundry.

I will post more backstory in a separate post right after/below this one, but in 2017 I was able to come off Adderall completely and take a 2-month break of abstinence from it (just on my own since by then I did not have coverage or the money/energy to access treatment). When I ran out of money and needed to look for work again, I went back on Adderall at a lower dose (but still higher than the original 20mg/day IR I took from 2008-2012 and although the 2-month break from Adderall did reset my tolerance to a certain extent, it still was not as effective as it was at the original 20mg/day IR from 2008-2012).

Things have improved since that 2-month Adderall break in 2017. But I still have exhaustion issues and excessive sweating issues (to the point that I've even received complaints about my excessive sweating at the job I eventually got when I was able to find work again) and the other issues, though improved, still linger.

Any leads or ideas for approaches to radically improving these lingering effects/my fitness (e.g. adult sport camps or clinics since I was really involved with competitive sports when I was younger, outdoors activity programs/extended retreats) are sincerely appreciated.

Lastly, around 2015 I tried Memantine/Namenda to help with the recovery and tolerance issues, but it was hard to get approved and became too complicated and expensive at the time to continue. The Memantine/Namenda did seem to help in some ways, but it wasn't a silver bullet and I honestly couldn't even really describe how exactly it was helping beyond that I simply felt a little better with it.

I have glanced at alternative approaches (in the realm of Suboxone or Ibogaine type methods) to treat the Adderall overuse effects, the tolerance I've accumulated to Adderall over the years, and the severe anhedonia, brain fog, sluggishness, and lethargy I have without Adderall. But I honestly just ran out of mental energy to try and find some alternative approach, and at this point extended abstinence with a structured and supportive program or plan seems like the simplest and most realistic shot I have at trying to improve things.

But I am open to some different and/or outside-the-box ideas, even just to be aware of, should anyone out there have some to share.

To anybody able to read through this and offer tips, I cannot thank you enough.

 

[change2020]

Backstory: I originally was prescribed Adderall at 20mg/day IR from about 2008-2012 and never once exceeded that dose and found it very effective and helpful. Though I did have bad side effects of anxiety and exacerbated depression earlier on, adding an SSRI (Zoloft then Lexapro) did a pretty good job of balancing me out and alleviating much of the anxiety and depression.

A sudden change in insurance and psychiatrists (along with a death in my family and other external distractions around 2012) resulted in my prescribed dose skyrocketing to 120mg/day IR per the new psychiatrist's errant recommendations (from 20mg/day IR to 120mg/day IR over the course of just a few months).

After maybe 5-6 months at 120mg/day IR, I realized that I had started to experience many side effects that were actually almost the inverse of what Adderall is usually prescribed for: oversleeping, needing to lay down frequently throughout the day, sluggishness and low energy, and huge spikes in appetite where I would binge eat usually when a dose would start to wear off (although now that I know the 120mg/day IR was so unusually high, I wonder if it ever truly wore off and maybe I was still "high" by the time I took the next day's dose).

This new psychiatrist suggested we try increasing my Adderall dose b/c I mentioned still struggled a slight bit with the standard "crash" at the end of the day (though it had gotten way better since adding the SSRI and I wish I just carried along as things were) and he interpreted that as being a function of too low a dose. Furthermore, he insisted that from his experience, we would know if the dose (even at 120 mg/day IR) was getting too high because I would start to have panic attacks, extreme paranoia, and psychosis-like symptoms. But for whatever reason, that was never the case for me. And I think I started to just get stupid and hypomanic with every increase of dose and kept going along with the continue increases of my Adderall dose to try and fix what wasn't really broken to begin with.

The thing is, instead of the "panic attacks, extreme paranoia, and psychosis-like symptoms" I was on the lookout for, I actually (perhaps paradoxically) became very sleepy, tired, lazy, started gaining tons of weight (ultimately gaining 100 pounds from the ~175 lbs I was most my adult life to peaking at ~275 lbs) as a result of the increased/too-high Adderall dose (again peaking at 120mg/day IR). And when I did have energy or could stay awake, I was not anxious or paranoid but rather extremely hypomanic, impulsive, unrealistic, whimsical, and would do things like start (and quickly abandon) random projects.

Again, it took me about 5-6 months to become fully aware of the significant "inverse" or "paradoxical" effects I was experiencing (oversleeping, extreme lethargy, gaining weight, extreme hypomania) from the spike in my Adderall dose to 120mg/day IR and to also definitely attribute these changes to the increased Adderall and not something with my SSRI/antidepressant.

Upon this realization, I immediately dropped my dose in half to 60mg/day IR, which took a couple weeks to adjust to. And eventually did manage taper the dose down to about 35-40mg/day IR. And each time I acclimated to a lowered dose of the Adderall, I absolutely started to experience the original beneficial effects that I had enjoyed from 2008-2012 at 20mg/day IR. Unfortunately, I stayed with the same psychiatrist and also a few weeks later I had my first slip-up (mostly because of external drama/events in my life that I was probably still too vulnerable and too early in my recovery to cope and deal with at this point) and my dose went back up.

The next few years (around 2013-2016) with the same psychiatrist, my Adderall dose was just like a yoyo. I'd try to taper it back down but relapse. Often getting back up to 120mg/day IR. What's worse, I started to develop misuse habits and would even exceed the 120mg/day IR, and since I was with the same psychiatrist, he would just authorize an early refill. It was just a rollercoaster with my Adderall dose from 2013-2016.

Things got so bad in 2016 that I became very scared and finally was able to taper off Adderall on my own completely/down to zero by the beginning of 2017, and I was able to stay abstinent from it for 2 really tough months. But ultimately I needed to find a job and go back to work so I went back on Adderall (with a different psychiatrist). And although I was able to get by at about 45mg/day IR (still much higher than the 20mg/day IR I took from about 2008-2012), and although the 2-month break did reset my tolerance to a certain extent, the 45mg/day IR still wasn't as effective as the original 20mg/day IR during the period around 2008-2012. And I still had many of the physical effects from the overuse lingering.

So here I am, now with an opportunity to take an even longer break of about 6 months starting in the beginning of 2020 to try and really get closer to the root issue and reevaluate things and hopefully repair some of the lingering health and tolerance issues.

 

[ByrdieBird]

Hello, and thank you from the bottom of my heart to anyone able to read through and chime in. Really.

At the start of 2020, I will be able to get inpatient treatment that I can afford at the facilities in this network (Cigna PPO): https://www.cigna.com/assets/docs/b...e-use/2017/designated-substance-use-flyer.pdf

Fortunately, I do think I could still afford out-of-network inpatient treatment at a facility not on that list if there were some justification for it, even though the % of the cost covered would be much less.

I am leaning toward a facility near New York (where I currently live) or California (where I am from), with a slight preference toward California simply b/c I have more family there. I would absolutely pursue a program located elsewhere if it was more tailored to my Adderall overuse background, the associated effects, and my general mental health/psychiatric issues, but I am not aware of one.

I am relieved to see some facilities on the in-network list that I have heard of and looked into before (e.g. Betty Ford in Southern California, Silver Hill Hospital in Connecticut and not far from NY) but still want to gain more familiarity before deciding on one.

If anyone has insight or can point me toward good resources for selecting an inpatient facility for starting my treatment, I would greatly appreciate that.

After inpatient rehab, I plan on continuing treatment through outpatient programs while living with family in Northern California during most of the remainder of my 6-month planned abstinence from Adderall and recovery time. And I do know of a harm reduction philosophy (which is my preferred philosophy) LGBTQ-oriented (which applies to me) outpatient program (a couple group meetings per week and a weekly one-on-one session) in San Francisco that might be a good fit for the tail-end of my 6 months plan, but I also want to research more options, especially options that might meet more often (e.g. an intensive outpatient program or partial hospitalization program).

Any tips for researching and finding outpatient treatment options (including the terminology generally used for the different levels or approaches of treatment) are greatly appreciated.

My Adderall overuse resulted in some "paradoxical" effects. I would mostly oversleep, overeat, and need to lay down frequently even if not to sleep. I ended up gaining 100 pounds and at the peak of my overuse and misuse around 2016, I was more or less bedridden, slept much of the day, would quickly get exhausted, dizzy, and excessively sweat from even minimal activity like trying to do laundry.

I will post more backstory in a separate post right after/below this one, but in 2017 I was able to come off Adderall completely and take a 2-month break of abstinence from it (just on my own since by then I did not have coverage or the money/energy to access treatment). When I ran out of money and needed to look for work again, I went back on Adderall at a lower dose (but still higher than the original 20mg/day IR I took from 2008-2012 and although the 2-month break from Adderall did reset my tolerance to a certain extent, it still was not as effective as it was at the original 20mg/day IR from 2008-2012).

Things have improved since that 2-month Adderall break in 2017. But I still have exhaustion issues and excessive sweating issues (to the point that I've even received complaints about my excessive sweating at the job I eventually got when I was able to find work again) and the other issues, though improved, still linger.

Any leads or ideas for approaches to radically improving these lingering effects/my fitness (e.g. adult sport camps or clinics since I was really involved with competitive sports when I was younger, outdoors activity programs/extended retreats) are sincerely appreciated.

Lastly, around 2015 I tried Memantine/Namenda to help with the recovery and tolerance issues, but it was hard to get approved and became too complicated and expensive at the time to continue. The Memantine/Namenda did seem to help in some ways, but it wasn't a silver bullet and I honestly couldn't even really describe how exactly it was helping beyond that I simply felt a little better with it.

I have glanced at alternative approaches (in the realm of Suboxone or Ibogaine type methods) to treat the Adderall overuse effects, the tolerance I've accumulated to Adderall over the years, and the severe anhedonia, brain fog, sluggishness, and lethargy I have without Adderall. But I honestly just ran out of mental energy to try and find some alternative approach, and at this point extended abstinence with a structured and supportive program or plan seems like the simplest and most realistic shot I have at trying to improve things.

But I am open to some different and/or outside-the-box ideas, even just to be aware of, should anyone out there have some to share.

To anybody able to read through this and offer tips, I cannot thank you enough.

Hope this sheds some light on your issue. Ok, so as Im sure you're already aware, Adderall acts on the part of the pleasure sensors of the brain (specifically Serotonin). Due to it being an amphetamine, like Crystal, once stopped your brain will have (over) used it's Serotonin (and dopamine). Depression is extremely common because our brain isn't producing those "feel good" sensors anymore. Headaches, lethargy, irritability & anxiety are also on the list of withdrawals from Adds. My suggestion is to catch up on as much sleep as possible the 1st 3 days. Then GET OUTSIDE! Sun & exercise is the BEST
"MEDICINE" for ppl in w/d's.

 

[change2020]

Hope this sheds some light on your issue. Ok, so as Im sure you're already aware, Adderall acts on the part of the pleasure sensors of the brain (specifically Serotonin). Due to it being an amphetamine, like Crystal, once stopped your brain will have (over) used it's Serotonin (and dopamine). Depression is extremely common because our brain isn't producing those "feel good" sensors anymore. Headaches, lethargy, irritability & anxiety are also on the list of withdrawals from Adds. My suggestion is to catch up on as much sleep as possible the 1st 3 days. Then GET OUTSIDE! Sun & exercise is the BEST
"MEDICINE" for ppl in w/d's.

Thank you, ByrdieBird.

I have actually come off Adderall a few times i the past couple years (including one period of 2 months off it). So I do have some sense of what to expect with my body. But it's nice to read it spelled out like you did with the neurotransmitters and such.

And I definitely anticipate the first 3 days to be mostly sleeping. And that's a good reminder about getting sun (and exercise). I'm really trying to figure out a realistic and sustainable exercise plan, but getting sun is obviously pretty simple yet easy to overlook, and I have in the past had vitamin D deficiency from being indoors too much. So I definitely don't want to forget putting that on my priority list.

Thanks again

 

[Mycophile]

Backstory: I originally was prescribed Adderall at 20mg/day IR from about 2008-2012 and never once exceeded that dose and found it very effective and helpful. Though I did have bad side effects of anxiety and exacerbated depression earlier on, adding an SSRI (Zoloft then Lexapro) did a pretty good job of balancing me out and alleviating much of the anxiety and depression.

A sudden change in insurance and psychiatrists (along with a death in my family and other external distractions around 2012) resulted in my prescribed dose skyrocketing to 120mg/day IR per the new psychiatrist's errant recommendations (from 20mg/day IR to 120mg/day IR over the course of just a few months).

After maybe 5-6 months at 120mg/day IR, I realized that I had started to experience many side effects that were actually almost the inverse of what Adderall is usually prescribed for: oversleeping, needing to lay down frequently throughout the day, sluggishness and low energy, and huge spikes in appetite where I would binge eat usually when a dose would start to wear off (although now that I know the 120mg/day IR was so unusually high, I wonder if it ever truly wore off and maybe I was still "high" by the time I took the next day's dose).

This new psychiatrist suggested we try increasing my Adderall dose b/c I mentioned still struggled a slight bit with the standard "crash" at the end of the day (though it had gotten way better since adding the SSRI and I wish I just carried along as things were) and he interpreted that as being a function of too low a dose. Furthermore, he insisted that from his experience, we would know if the dose (even at 120 mg/day IR) was getting too high because I would start to have panic attacks, extreme paranoia, and psychosis-like symptoms. But for whatever reason, that was never the case for me. And I think I started to just get stupid and hypomanic with every increase of dose and kept going along with the continue increases of my Adderall dose to try and fix what wasn't really broken to begin with.

The thing is, instead of the "panic attacks, extreme paranoia, and psychosis-like symptoms" I was on the lookout for, I actually (perhaps paradoxically) became very sleepy, tired, lazy, started gaining tons of weight (ultimately gaining 100 pounds from the ~175 lbs I was most my adult life to peaking at ~275 lbs) as a result of the increased/too-high Adderall dose (again peaking at 120mg/day IR). And when I did have energy or could stay awake, I was not anxious or paranoid but rather extremely hypomanic, impulsive, unrealistic, whimsical, and would do things like start (and quickly abandon) random projects.

Again, it took me about 5-6 months to become fully aware of the significant "inverse" or "paradoxical" effects I was experiencing (oversleeping, extreme lethargy, gaining weight, extreme hypomania) from the spike in my Adderall dose to 120mg/day IR and to also definitely attribute these changes to the increased Adderall and not something with my SSRI/antidepressant.

Upon this realization, I immediately dropped my dose in half to 60mg/day IR, which took a couple weeks to adjust to. And eventually did manage taper the dose down to about 35-40mg/day IR. And each time I acclimated to a lowered dose of the Adderall, I absolutely started to experience the original beneficial effects that I had enjoyed from 2008-2012 at 20mg/day IR. Unfortunately, I stayed with the same psychiatrist and also a few weeks later I had my first slip-up (mostly because of external drama/events in my life that I was probably still too vulnerable and too early in my recovery to cope and deal with at this point) and my dose went back up.

The next few years (around 2013-2016) with the same psychiatrist, my Adderall dose was just like a yoyo. I'd try to taper it back down but relapse. Often getting back up to 120mg/day IR. What's worse, I started to develop misuse habits and would even exceed the 120mg/day IR, and since I was with the same psychiatrist, he would just authorize an early refill. It was just a rollercoaster with my Adderall dose from 2013-2016.

Things got so bad in 2016 that I became very scared and finally was able to taper off Adderall on my own completely/down to zero by the beginning of 2017, and I was able to stay abstinent from it for 2 really tough months. But ultimately I needed to find a job and go back to work so I went back on Adderall (with a different psychiatrist). And although I was able to get by at about 45mg/day IR (still much higher than the 20mg/day IR I took from about 2008-2012), and although the 2-month break did reset my tolerance to a certain extent, the 45mg/day IR still wasn't as effective as the original 20mg/day IR during the period around 2008-2012. And I still had many of the physical effects from the overuse lingering.

So here I am, now with an opportunity to take an even longer break of about 6 months starting in the beginning of 2020 to try and really get closer to the root issue and reevaluate things and hopefully repair some of the lingering health and tolerance issues.

Hi.

First off, I just wanted to say I'm sorry for your situation and hope things improve.

Me personally, I just finally hit bottom today after one year of using Dexadrine and just realized it's fucking me up too much and I'm stopping, and my doses are at their highest 27.5mgs IR Dexadrine (not Adderall so there's no Levoamphetamine), and it's pretty rare that I'd take that 3 times in a day (though I have) so usually my max daily dose was 65mgs, sometimes 27.5mgs.

I've experienced some of what you have, though nowhere near your level or gaining that kind of weight, but crashes, severe lethargy and depression and irritability etc.

Now honestly, I'm going to say that I am PISSED OFF AT YOUR PSYCHIATRIST.

Seriously, what you have said about him shows me he's got to be one of the worst psychiatrists in the world when it comes to both understanding how Adderall works and general patient care and he should fucking have his license taken away.

Honestly, I don't even know how he's gotten away with prescribing 120mgs a day because 60mgs a day is usually supposed to be the highest dose prescribed.

Are you are aware of that?

At least, that's what I've been told, and I can't fathom why any psychiatrist would prescribe that amount, unless MAYBE you were a SEVERE narcoleptic or something like that, and still, I am pretty sure 60mgs a day is supposed to be the highest medically recommended dosage.

Him jumping you from 20mgs a day to 120mgs a day is one of the most insane things I've ever heard.

Then you said he essentially "decided to increase your dose from 20mg a day to 120mg a day because of the end of the day crash"??!!!!!!

That's exactly the OPPOSITE of what should be done!!

Stimulants are going to have a fucking crash!! That's what happens!! ESPECIALLY if they are instant release and not slow release like Extended release Adderall/Dexadrine or Vyvanse which would have been MUCH better for you to have been prescribed.

THE HIGHER THE DOSE THE WORSE THE CRASH WILL BE!!

WHAT KIND OF IDIOT IS THIS DOCTOR THAT HE THINKS YOUR CRASH WILL BE LESS SEVERE IF HE DRAMATICALLY RAISES YOUR DOSE HIGHER THAN ANY DOCTOR IS SUPPOSED TO??!!!

I'm sorry, but the idiocy and medical negligence is just downright baffling.

If you want to have less of a crash what you would want would be a slower release pill like extended release Adderall, extended release Dexadrine or Vyvanse because they wear off more gradually.

And then the guys sheer idiocy and recklessly putting a patient at risk gets even worse considering you say that he essentially decided to test whether or not the dose he was giving you was too high by seeing if you had psychosis, panic attacks and paranoia??!!!

Do you understand how crazy that is?

That a doctor would say "hmm, ok, well, I'll just keep increasing your dose to INSANE amounts and we'll know if it's too much if you get psychosis or panic attacks"??!!

You don't "test" whether or not a dosage is right by seeing if it produces the worst symptoms it possibly can, you see if the medication is giving you the benefits you want at the current dose, and if you are getting ANY bad side effects you tell him and that probably means the dose is TOO HIGH AND NOT TOO LOW.

It's like this doctor was working in reverse in all of his logic and I'm wondering how he even got license to practice or an MD.


Now....my question for you is: did you realize this psychiatrist was negligent, and if so, why didn't you go get a new one??

Unfortunately, while most of the blame lies on him, a little of it is on you, because you should have realized this guy was a complete nut job and gone to see a different psychiatrist, and I don't understand why you didn't.

So, here are my thoughts from the few things I've learned about amphetamine abuse so far:

1) 1st: get a new psychiatrist and never ever see that old one again!!

2) 2nd, I was recently told that Concerta, which is time release Ritalin, is helpful for amphetamine withdrawal, so that's what I'm asking for now, and it's what you might possibly want to ask for. Others on here who have had Adderall WD say it takes away SOME of the discomfort, but not all of it, and makes it easier to stop.

So I'd maybe ask a doctor for that but...

3) Before you even do that it MIGHT be smarter to get a slow taper off your Adderall because you have been on such high doses.

4) However, there's also the option of being on a slow/extended release pill as I mentioned, like extended release Adderall/extended release Dexadrine or Vyvanse. I personally think you might want either Vyvanse or extended release Dexadrine and NOT Adderall because Adderall has Levoamphetamine and that raises your blood pressure more than pure Dex or Vyvanse and is probably worse for you and makes you edgier.

5) Also, both benzos like Klonopin and Xanax and Gabapentin can help at times with stimulant WD, but they are also addictive so if you ask for those be careful, so I won't necessarily recommend them but say they COULD be helpful if a doctor thinks so, so if you get a NEW GOOD doctor, ask him about them and if he recommends them.

6) Other non-prescription drugs and herbs like Kratom, CBD and other things can also take the edge off WD, but Kratom is also addictive so be careful.



I am no doctor, but here's what I'd think might be helpful for you:

1) like i said, get a new doctor

2) Tell him the dose you are currently on and that you want to taper off, and ask him if he recommends A) just tapering off your current instant release Adderall or B) switching to an approximate similar dose of an extended slow release amp like Vyvanse, or extended release Adderall or extended release dexadrine and THEN tapering off of that.

Personally, I would kind of think it might be better for them to first put you on an equal or slightly lower than equal dose of an extended release pill, THEN taper THAT down as low as they can go, THEN switch you over to Concerta, and then slowly taper you off the Concerta if you want till you no longer need any amphetamine, but that's just my guess.

3) Then, depending on whether the doc tapers you off your instant release or puts you on an extended release and tapers you off that, as mentioned, once you taper off that you may want to switch to Concerta and THEN

4) taper off Concerta.


Those would be my thoughts, and again, ask him if you could benefit from something like Gabapentin or Klonopin to help with the anxiety of the withdrawals but don't take too much of those cause you can get dependent, and maybe carefully experiment with Kratom but don't get dependent on that either and see if that helps, and also you could try CBD, as well as other herbs like Ashwagahnda, Lions Mane, and Rhodiola Rosea which can also be helpful, and Valerian Root is good too as a healthy sleep aid that takes the edge off but it's not strong.

Also, L-Theanine is helpful which is the calming agent in Green Tea, and that can help calm your nerves, and you can buy L-Theanine powder online and take that daily, and drinking green Tea is also good for you and will make you less jittery than coffee and can help maybe just a bit with the tiredness and edginess from the WD.

All of those things are worth trying.

SLEEP A LOT. As much as you can so you can recover and as often as you can, and have a set waking time and set sleeping time and take Melatonin when you go to bed because it will adjust your circadian rhythyms/internal clock.

DEFINITELY exercise as much as you can and be outdoors as much as you can, preferably even exercise outdoors, and that will help A LOT with the WD and sleep, and work on your diet and losing weight.

If you do all that I think you should get better.

Like I said, I also just realized I need to quit Dexadrine due to negative side effects, but the negligence of your doctor is just astounding and really criminal in fact.

Good luck.

 

[change2020]

Hi.

First off, I just wanted to say I'm sorry for your situation and hope things improve.

Me personally, I just finally hit bottom today after one year of using Dexadrine and just realized it's fucking me up too much and I'm stopping, and my doses are at their highest 27.5mgs IR Dexadrine (not Adderall so there's no Levoamphetamine), and it's pretty rare that I'd take that 3 times in a day (though I have) so usually my max daily dose was 65mgs, sometimes 27.5mgs.

I've experienced some of what you have, though nowhere near your level or gaining that kind of weight, but crashes, severe lethargy and depression and irritability etc.

Now honestly, I'm going to say that I am PISSED OFF AT YOUR PSYCHIATRIST.

Seriously, what you have said about him shows me he's got to be one of the worst psychiatrists in the world when it comes to both understanding how Adderall works and general patient care and he should fucking have his license taken away.

Honestly, I don't even know how he's gotten away with prescribing 120mgs a day because 60mgs a day is usually supposed to be the highest dose prescribed.

Are you are aware of that?

At least, that's what I've been told, and I can't fathom why any psychiatrist would prescribe that amount, unless MAYBE you were a SEVERE narcoleptic or something like that, and still, I am pretty sure 60mgs a day is supposed to be the highest medically recommended dosage.

Him jumping you from 20mgs a day to 120mgs a day is one of the most insane things I've ever heard.

Then you said he essentially "decided to increase your dose from 20mg a day to 120mg a day because of the end of the day crash"??!!!!!!

That's exactly the OPPOSITE of what should be done!!

Stimulants are going to have a fucking crash!! That's what happens!! ESPECIALLY if they are instant release and not slow release like Extended release Adderall/Dexadrine or Vyvanse which would have been MUCH better for you to have been prescribed.

THE HIGHER THE DOSE THE WORSE THE CRASH WILL BE!!

WHAT KIND OF IDIOT IS THIS DOCTOR THAT HE THINKS YOUR CRASH WILL BE LESS SEVERE IF HE DRAMATICALLY RAISES YOUR DOSE HIGHER THAN ANY DOCTOR IS SUPPOSED TO??!!!

I'm sorry, but the idiocy and medical negligence is just downright baffling.

If you want to have less of a crash what you would want would be a slower release pill like extended release Adderall, extended release Dexadrine or Vyvanse because they wear off more gradually.

And then the guys sheer idiocy and recklessly putting a patient at risk gets even worse considering you say that he essentially decided to test whether or not the dose he was giving you was too high by seeing if you had psychosis, panic attacks and paranoia??!!!

Do you understand how crazy that is?

That a doctor would say "hmm, ok, well, I'll just keep increasing your dose to INSANE amounts and we'll know if it's too much if you get psychosis or panic attacks"??!!

You don't "test" whether or not a dosage is right by seeing if it produces the worst symptoms it possibly can, you see if the medication is giving you the benefits you want at the current dose, and if you are getting ANY bad side effects you tell him and that probably means the dose is TOO HIGH AND NOT TOO LOW.

It's like this doctor was working in reverse in all of his logic and I'm wondering how he even got license to practice or an MD.


Now....my question for you is: did you realize this psychiatrist was negligent, and if so, why didn't you go get a new one??

Unfortunately, while most of the blame lies on him, a little of it is on you, because you should have realized this guy was a complete nut job and gone to see a different psychiatrist, and I don't understand why you didn't.

So, here are my thoughts from the few things I've learned about amphetamine abuse so far:

1) 1st: get a new psychiatrist and never ever see that old one again!!

2) 2nd, I was recently told that Concerta, which is time release Ritalin, is helpful for amphetamine withdrawal, so that's what I'm asking for now, and it's what you might possibly want to ask for. Others on here who have had Adderall WD say it takes away SOME of the discomfort, but not all of it, and makes it easier to stop.

So I'd maybe ask a doctor for that but...

3) Before you even do that it MIGHT be smarter to get a slow taper off your Adderall because you have been on such high doses.

4) However, there's also the option of being on a slow/extended release pill as I mentioned, like extended release Adderall/extended release Dexadrine or Vyvanse. I personally think you might want either Vyvanse or extended release Dexadrine and NOT Adderall because Adderall has Levoamphetamine and that raises your blood pressure more than pure Dex or Vyvanse and is probably worse for you and makes you edgier.

5) Also, both benzos like Klonopin and Xanax and Gabapentin can help at times with stimulant WD, but they are also addictive so if you ask for those be careful, so I won't necessarily recommend them but say they COULD be helpful if a doctor thinks so, so if you get a NEW GOOD doctor, ask him about them and if he recommends them.

6) Other non-prescription drugs and herbs like Kratom, CBD and other things can also take the edge off WD, but Kratom is also addictive so be careful.



I am no doctor, but here's what I'd think might be helpful for you:

1) like i said, get a new doctor

2) Tell him the dose you are currently on and that you want to taper off, and ask him if he recommends A) just tapering off your current instant release Adderall or B) switching to an approximate similar dose of an extended slow release amp like Vyvanse, or extended release Adderall or extended release dexadrine and THEN tapering off of that.

Personally, I would kind of think it might be better for them to first put you on an equal or slightly lower than equal dose of an extended release pill, THEN taper THAT down as low as they can go, THEN switch you over to Concerta, and then slowly taper you off the Concerta if you want till you no longer need any amphetamine, but that's just my guess.

3) Then, depending on whether the doc tapers you off your instant release or puts you on an extended release and tapers you off that, as mentioned, once you taper off that you may want to switch to Concerta and THEN

4) taper off Concerta.


Those would be my thoughts, and again, ask him if you could benefit from something like Gabapentin or Klonopin to help with the anxiety of the withdrawals but don't take too much of those cause you can get dependent, and maybe carefully experiment with Kratom but don't get dependent on that either and see if that helps, and also you could try CBD, as well as other herbs like Ashwagahnda, Lions Mane, and Rhodiola Rosea which can also be helpful, and Valerian Root is good too as a healthy sleep aid that takes the edge off but it's not strong.

Also, L-Theanine is helpful which is the calming agent in Green Tea, and that can help calm your nerves, and you can buy L-Theanine powder online and take that daily, and drinking green Tea is also good for you and will make you less jittery than coffee and can help maybe just a bit with the tiredness and edginess from the WD.

All of those things are worth trying.

SLEEP A LOT. As much as you can so you can recover and as often as you can, and have a set waking time and set sleeping time and take Melatonin when you go to bed because it will adjust your circadian rhythyms/internal clock.

DEFINITELY exercise as much as you can and be outdoors as much as you can, preferably even exercise outdoors, and that will help A LOT with the WD and sleep, and work on your diet and losing weight.

If you do all that I think you should get better.

Like I said, I also just realized I need to quit Dexadrine due to negative side effects, but the negligence of your doctor is just astounding and really criminal in fact.

Good luck.

Thank you so much for your post. It really means a lot, honestly.

I'm going to comb through the latter half of your post again later, as you listed a lot of tips that seem super promising and worth looking into and exploring. I will definitely be looking into each one piece by piece and cannot thank you enough for taking the time and putting the thought into sharing them.

As far as the psychiatrist, I completely agree. And I no longer see him (I actually no longer live in the same state, but I plan on never seeing him again even if/when I am back in that state which is where my hometown is). And I completely agree with your point about me ultimately needing to shoulder my part of the blame. I give myself a bit of a pass for the early part, b/c I was naive about just how ridiculously high 120mg/day of Adderall was, and I DEFINITELY had no idea that it basically scientifically was destined to backfire.

When I started recognizing the "inverse" or "paradoxical" effects that the 120mg/day of Adderall was having, I actually was not even certain it was the extreme/high dose of Adderall causing them at first. I was on antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds as well, so I only arrived at the full conclusion that the "culprit" was the extreme/high dose of Adderall after I decided on my own to figure out which med was responsible through essentially the process of elimination.

I immediately decided to try and get back to my original 20mg/day dose of Adderall and started by dropping the dose in half down to 60mg/day. It's crazy to think that I was still taking 60mg/day of Adderall (which as you mentioned I later learned was sort of considered the consensus "maximum" dose) yet still experiencing withdrawal because of how ridiculously high (120mg/day) I had been prescribed for several months.

Within a few weeks, I was able to get down to about 30-35mg/day and it was starting to work effectively again like it had back when it was 20mg/day from about 2008-2012. But then I had a slip-up (in part b/c the same psychiatrist had hastily thrown in Xanax to my regimen, and that just muddied things even more, but also I experienced a significant death in the family and other major major stressful life events) and form then on it was a rollercoaster of trying to get it back down to 20mg/day only to relapse. And I blame myself for the rollercoaster years when I was no longer naive about just how ridiculously high the doses were and how they were essentially having inverse effects.

But the psychiatrist was trash. Though I blame myself for not immediately finding a new one once I realized his guidance was horrible and that I had developed a problem. His lack of understanding of Adderall was idiotic, but he also just didn't pay attention. I was 165 pounds when I started seeing him around 2012 on a monthly basis and ultimately reached 275 pounds, yet he probably didn't even notice. It wasn't even a gradual gain. I was born and my whole family lived in the same city he practiced in, yet even in some of our last appointments he'd ask "Are you flying home for the holidays?" and stuff like that.

Anyways, I actually had a very constructive day today. I've really been productive in figuring out a lot of the logistical and financial elements to my plans, and it is looking more and more likely that I will be able to access really good inpatient and outpatient treatment, services, and facilities/programs that will help realize my continued tapering back off Adderall and my extended break or abstinence period from Adderall. Things that I simply couldn't afford or figure out in the past.

Anyway, I wish you luck with Dexedrine. I'm probably gonna drop you a private message. I know you said that basically you just hit rock bottom today or yesterday so I'm sure you have a lot to figure out as far as proceeding from here and what type of plans you might be wanting or needing to make toward making changes or recovery, and I'm definitely more than happy to read more about your situation and goals moving forward and as I've done a lot of research on recovery resources, approaches, and logistics, maybe I have some ideas that are relevant to your specific situation to share.

Thanks again and take care