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Phenmetrazine analogs?

haribo1

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Nov 29, 2006
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Phenmetrazine is said by many old, old, incredably ooolllld school speed freaks that phenmetrazine was a far superoir drug to benzedrene or dexedrine. I know in a book called 'Rush' a woman describes shooting it as 'the most prosexual drug ever'.... although needles would sure dampen my ardour.

Well, I've been trying to figure out the SAR for the aminorex series (with and without the 4 methyl).

Of course, then I thought... 'what will happen if you take a methyl off then end pf phenmetrazine?

The ring will pull the amine into some kind of active shape. I know people have tried substituting both aminorex, 4 methyl aminorex and pemoline but has anyone considered the morpholine ring?
Where would this stand on the UK MoDA laws? I would feel confident to try it out, I don't think that it's basic structure is known to be dangerous. Maybe the 2,5 dimethoxy 4 <something> would make a good starting point. Make say 1Og, seperate all the isomers and work up form 250ug (just like Hoffman).

If this has been tried and I missed it, and sorry. If not, has anyone got the patent on making phenmetrazine? I know it will be pretty trivial to make it, but the patents offer some kind of framework....
 

LuxEtVeritas

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the methyl sits nicely where it does in structural relation to amphetamine class so I think it has value and removal lessens such

basically PhenMet is a closed ring Beta-O-alkylated norephedrine (which is amphetamine class of course)

B-O-alkylated ephedrines are known themselves to far superior in effect desired than their non-B-O-alkylated relatives and have greater dopaminergicity and BBB effect (less peripheral)

thus PhenMet IMO likely simply optimizes this by closing the ring from the Beta-OH to the amine

removal again of the alpha-methyl not likely a good idea
 

Will01996

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I am 53 years old and was alive when the last of the Preluden (Phenmetrazin) was removed from the market. The closest feeling to that today is Dexedrine mixed with a small amount of Oxycodone.
 

<pyridinyl_30>

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According to wikipedia, removing the alpha methyl group of 4-methylaminorex gives aminorex, which is said to be four times as strong as U4EUh. I've never done either of these, so I couldn't tell you.

But, if that is correct information and the SARs are the same for the aminorexes and the phenmetrazines, then removing the alpha methyl group of phenmetrazine would give 2-phenylmorpholine, which is commercially available, uncontrolled, and possibly stronger than the parent compound, phenmetrazine. The N-methyl version of phenmetrazine, phendimetrazine (Bontril), is known to be weaker than phenmetrazine, which is one of its metabolites.

On the other hand, 2-phenylmorpholine might not be active at all. It's probably a long-shot, anyway, but one worth looking into no doubt.

Speaking of the aminorexes' SAR, which is the "active" N? Is it the exocyclic amino group or the heterocylic N imine or both? In the meantime, while researching this response, I found a supplier of 3-benzylmorpholine!
 

Ham-milton

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I've seen 2-PM (man, that'd make a sweet street name) offered on websites.

Anyone know how the thiomorpholine analogues stand up?
 

Jabberwocky

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what about fastandbubbly offered the possibility for a methylenedioxy analogue of phenmetrazine. It had not been synthesized and still hasn't to my knowledge?

sounds yummy but maybe thats just because any chem with methylenedioxy sounds insta-good =D
 

DCBAe

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Where benzos are easy as hell obtained! Codeine an
Will01996 said:
I am 53 years old and was alive when the last of the Preluden (Phenmetrazin) was removed from the market. The closest feeling to that today is Dexedrine mixed with a small amount of Oxycodone.

WHere i live it was only removed from the market in the late 80s, Preludim was the best pill you could wish.
You descrived it kinda well. Much better than dextroamphetamine wich was available too. Now its not..
 

coriolis

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Aug 21, 2007
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Phenmetrazine is still beeing prescribed in Slovakia, perhaps I could persuade my neurologist to order it for me from this "twin" of my homeland. :) Once he wrote to me something about phenmetrazine and something, which he abbreviated to "dexf." or "dexph." and how it was smuggled from the former Czechoslovakia to Sweden together with suitcases full of flunitrazepam. Could "dexph." be "dextrophenmetrazine"?
 

IllinoisBoy

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Aug 22, 2008
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The Good old days

Like others on here, I was being prescribed Preludin when it went off the market in december of 1990. BI stopped making it and when the pharmacy ran out, it was over. A sad day as I remember. I also remember it was highly addictive too, just like all the reports said.
I'm surprised it hasn't made a come back? Even more so, I'm surprised that someone can't figure out how to make it in their basement? :)
I'm not a chemist as some of you sound like, but is it that hard to make? I had heard that shortly after it was patented and being peddled on the streets of Germany, young chemistry students were making the powder and selling that!
So, who can teach me how???? :)
 

MokumChemist

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Regarding the 2-PM... I have never sampled it myself, but I did find some discussion on it at another forum :
However, a certain somebody prepared 2-phenylmorpholine hydrochloride and tested it at 80mg. This somebody said it was one of the most annoying drugs he ever tried. It was psychoactive to some mild degree, but the most pronounced effect was of an extreme feeling of tiredness, kind of like due to a drop of blood pressure. So if the psychoactivity mechanism included any catecholamines release, its consequences were not noted because the subject was sedated from tiredness. The subject said its unpleasantness can only compare to drugs like opiates or benzodiazepins and these would even leave a better impression as it is always better to be put down due to psychological and not physiological activity.
At least it is ridiculously easy to prepare from styrene in a couple of steps, but what a stupid poison!
Sorry for replying to a rather old thread, but since it was "dug up" today I thought I would add my 2 cents anyway...
 

IllinoisBoy

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Aug 22, 2008
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Does it help to say that ephedra is very similar in it's chemical compound to phenmetrazine?
 

wungchow

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I always wondered what it would be like to switch the location of the Me group on the morpholine ring... see pic
 

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fastandbulbous

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IllinoisBoy said:
Does it help to say that ephedra is very similar in it's chemical compound to phenmetrazine?

No because:

1) Ephedra isn't a compound, but the name of a genus of plants, which contain ephedrine derivatives

2) The beta-hydroxy group of ephedeine is the thing responsible for making it such a horrible, shitty physical drug. With phenmetrazine, the beta-hydroxy has been 'plastered over' by making it an ether (a heterocyclic ether, but either way there's no free beta-hydroxy to interact with adrenergic receptors)

If you're trying to convey that ephedrine is a similar drug to phenmetrazine, then er yes, ephedrine is a sympathiomimetic, as is phenmetrazine; then again. Trabants and Ferrarris are both cars, but other than that they are different beasts altogether (in terms of subjective feel of the drugs, ephedrine is rough, crude, uncultured and basically a very shitty CNS stimulant as it has lots of peripheral sympathetic actions which feel like adrenaline-like anxiety symptoms. Phenmetrazine is smooth as fuck with little of the shakes or stomach churning of ephedrine).


In the meantime, while researching this response, I found a supplier of 3-benzylmorpholine!

No sources (just a reminder), but yes, 30benzylmorpholine is effectively the morpholine analogue of desoxypipradrol, minus one of the aromatic groups. 2-benzylpiperidine is apparently fairly weak as a stim (100mg being required for a shorter version of desoxy effect), but in the paper detailing the activity of the diphenylmethyl heterocyclic compounds as CNS stims, the morpholine derivatives were consistently the most potent, so 3-benzoylmorpholine might just have some 'interesting' properties.


Anyone know how the thiomorpholine analogues stand up?

Thiomorpholines are about equipotent with the analogus morpholines (well according to a paper concerning synth etc of 3-(diphenylmethyl)thiomorpholine. They can ondergo metabolism via oxidation of the ring sulphur (something not available to morpholines), but betond that I've not seen a great deal of research on the subject
 
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wungchow

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^F&B, do you have any thoughts on the "linear" analog i posted above? something like that is probably readily available from specialty chemical vendors...
 

nuke

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The more difficult synthesis (and cost thereof) of phenmetrazine analogues has probably been what has kept them from the market. Though (without going into detail) the synthesis of phenmetrazine is not all that difficult. It's surprising we haven't seen much of any of its presence illicitly.
 
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