Misc Phenibut is an "amino acid" and supplement?

[Mycophile]

I'm kind of interested in trying Phenibut because I no longer have access to benzos and I'd heard that Phenibut was a benzo or at least had a similar effect.

However, when I looked it up I found it sold on a supplement site and read that it is "an Amino acid related to GABA used as an ingredient in dietary supplements".

Now, to be honest, I don't even REALLY understand what an amino acid is at all, but is this actually true??

Don't amino acids exist naturally in the body or am I incorrect about that?

And if Phenibut is actually an Amino Acid why it is so physically addictive?

I thought that Amino Acids were not usually habit forming?

Is Phenibut an actual benzodiazepene or not?

And what makes Phenibut a good dietary supplement?

Just curious cause I thought it was similar to benzos and I've never heard of those being described in this way.

 

[Mycophile]

Does anyone know if this is really true and have the answers to these questions?

 

[sekio]

Phenibut, strictly speaking, is an amino acid 'cause it's both an amine and a carboxylic acid. Amine plus acid, amino acid. But it's not a protien-forming amino acid (like all the ones you know and love and need as nutrients) because the amine and the carboxylic acid have the wrong number of carbons between 'em.

Technically speaking even something like pregabalin (Lyrica) is an amino acid, too. But it's not a protien-forming one either. "Amino acid" just describes the structure of the compound, and not the effects.

Phenibut is not a benzodiazepine either. It doesn't act at the same sites as benzodiazepines either. If anything it is closer to GHB or baclofen - GABA-B agonists instead of GABA-A positive modulators like benzos or barbiturates. So while it has similar calming, anxiolytic effects, they're not a direct substitute for benzos.

It's only a "dietary supplement" in the legal sense of the word - it has to be marketed that way or it would be considered a drug by the FDA, and be way more tightly regulated. Don't fool yourself into thinking it's 100% safe and effective for everyone just 'cause it's marketed that way.

 

[crzydiamond]

@sekio--you really have a gift for explaining scientific concepts and things in simple clear layman terms. I always learn something from your posts. I dont know what your career is (probably something chemistry or pharmacy related I'm sure) but you're a better teacher than many professors I had!

 

[yteek]

I think it is better then benzos, that is just me personally.

The golden rule of thumb is no more then two days of use per week, I do so, at doses of 2.5grams followed by a topping of another .5 shortly after.

 

[Mycophile]

I think it is better then benzos, that is just me personally.

The golden rule of thumb is no more then two days of use per week, I do so, at doses of 2.5grams followed by a topping of another .5 shortly after.

So have you been able to avoid physical dependence with this schedule?

 

[Lovermane808]

In my experience, I gained tolerance and eventually was physically dependent on phenibut only using it 2 days a week. It took about 6 months before I noticed. Withdrawals didn't fully kick in until 2 days after my last dose, so even doing it 2 days a week with 2-3 days between doses it still seemed to be somewhat active in my system for much more of the week than it wasn't. Its possible I was physically dependent way earlier than 6 months but I never stopped the 2 day schedule to find out. Even then, short term withdrawals weren't nearly as bad as I was expecting, though it took weeks before I could sleep normally which was unexpected and very unpleasant

 

[Mycophile]

In my experience, I gained tolerance and eventually was physically dependent on phenibut only using it 2 days a week. It took about 6 months before I noticed. Withdrawals didn't fully kick in until 2 days after my last dose, so even doing it 2 days a week with 2-3 days between doses it still seemed to be somewhat active in my system for much more of the week than it wasn't. Its possible I was physically dependent way earlier than 6 months but I never stopped the 2 day schedule to find out. Even then, short term withdrawals weren't nearly as bad as I was expecting, though it took weeks before I could sleep normally which was unexpected and very unpleasant

Hmmm, this is now making me wonder if I should even try it at all.

I just want something on hand for acute anxiety since my dumb doctor won't let me have even an as-needed prescription for a benzo.

Has anyone else had experience with it causing physical dependence after such a moderate usage?

Would most people recommend I stay away from it completely?

And for you, how uncomfortable were you withdrawing?

Would you suggest I stay away from it completely?

Do you think ONE time a week would have kept you from being physically dependent?

 

[pinpoint]

If it affects you the way it affected me and many others you will probably have a hard time sticking to a schedule. Life was just so much better with it, and the pros outweighed the cons by far. The withdrawal was horrendous, but if I could do it all over again I wouldn't change a thing. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Phenibut was one drug that changed my life for the better and many of the friendships, successes and positive habits I have today are a direct result of my experience with Phenibut. It was like an IRL version of the drug from the movie Limitless, for me, at least.

 

[Mycophile]

If it affects you the way it affected me and many others you will probably have a hard time sticking to a schedule. Life was just so much better with it, and the pros outweighed the cons by far. The withdrawal was horrendous, but if I could do it all over again I wouldn't change a thing. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Phenibut was one drug that changed my life for the better and many of the friendships, successes and positive habits I have today are a direct result of my experience with Phenibut. It was like an IRL version of the drug from the movie Limitless, for me, at least.

Hmm, now I'm even more torn...

Did it actually get you high or just relieve anxiety?

And how did you deal with the withdrawal and how long did it last?

Did you use something to get through the withdrawal period or did you just wait it out?

Have you sworn it off or do you still use it ocassionally?

It's so fucked up that the reason I am curious to try it is all because my doctor will no longer prescribe me Klonopin for my anxiety but I'm not going to risk taking anything that could get me addicted.

And do you prefer Phenibut to Kratom?

Which do you find to be better for social anxiety/socializing?

 

[pinpoint]

Hmm, now I'm even more torn...

Did it actually get you high or just relieve anxiety?

It completely demolished any and all forms of anxiety, however it also provided intense euphoria like MDMA-style with empathy and everything. Still one of my favorite highs ever

And how did you deal with the withdrawal and how long did it last?

It was terrifying. It was an extreme panic attack that lasted 72 hours followed by heavy depression and insomnia with psychotic symptoms like auditory and visual hallucinations. All told maybe 7 days.

Did you use something to get through the withdrawal period or did you just wait it out?

I used l-theanine which would abort the really intense panic attacks, but that's all I had at the time.

Have you sworn it off or do you still use it ocassionally?

I would still be using it, but unfortunately I think the GABA-B receptors become permanently (or at least very long term) damaged, because even after 6 month breaks the magic never returned.

It's so fucked up that the reason I am curious to try it is all because my doctor will no longer prescribe me Klonopin for my anxiety but I'm not going to risk taking anything that could get me addicted.

You'll have to decide that for yourself.

And do you prefer Phenibut to Kratom?

Phenibut by far, however like I said, the Phenibut has lost the magic whereas Kratom will always work as long as I take short breaks.

Which do you find to be better for social anxiety/socializing?

Phenibut x infinity.

Hope this helps. I did write a rather long experience report if you care to read.

 

[damonoxide]

Yeah, pinpoint, that report was the best thing I've read about phenibut. I too am highly curious about it and considering an order in the near future, especially since I may have to kick Suboxone (due to financial reasons) and figure it's gotta help make that less awful. However, knowing myself, I'm worried about the addiction potential. The way that shit made you feel...lord, if it was like that for me I'd be in trouble. I've never particularly enjoyed benzos, they were always more of a utilitarian thing for me, but having recently tried gabapentin holy shit! That stuff was like benzos with euphoria for me. I know phenibut is GABAb instead of GABAa though, so maybe it wouldn't be as intense for me.

 

[Mycophile]

Damn....

I just read up to page 5 of your thread.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to be steering clear of this stuff.

I mean it sounds like it feels AMAZING for as long as it lasts but aside from the HORRIBLE WDs you mentioned does anyone even have any REAL proof that this stuff is safe AT ALL??

Is there any way of proving that chemicals like this don't cause cancer or heart disease or brain damage etc?

I heard people say that they thought it was dangerous for their kidneys too, is that true?

It's so terrible that all the drugs which sound like they can really bring out a person's true potential are always so dangerous.


Actually the descriptions of this also sound a bit like that drug Prolintane that people have been talking about.


I just wanted a safe drug I could use to substitute for Klonopin like once or twice a week MAX but this doesn't sound like it.


Wish I could try it with how good it sounds like it is at first, but I'm not risking serious bodily damage or horrible withdrawal.

Everyone around here acts like they can actually know anything real about a drug that has never been studied seriously simply by reading anecdotal reports from users.


Why does everyone here assume that serious studies aren't necessary to truly understand drugs like this and the physical consequences they can have??

 

[itsonlyme123]

Damn....

I just read up to page 5 of your thread.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to be steering clear of this stuff.

I mean it sounds like it feels AMAZING for as long as it lasts but aside from the HORRIBLE WDs you mentioned does anyone even have any REAL proof that this stuff is safe AT ALL??

Is there any way of proving that chemicals like this don't cause cancer or heart disease or brain damage etc?

I heard people say that they thought it was dangerous for their kidneys too, is that true?

It's so terrible that all the drugs which sound like they can really bring out a person's true potential are always so dangerous.


Actually the descriptions of this also sound a bit like that drug Prolintane that people have been talking about.


I just wanted a safe drug I could use to substitute for Klonopin like once or twice a week MAX but this doesn't sound like it.


Wish I could try it with how good it sounds like it is at first, but I'm not risking serious bodily damage or horrible withdrawal.

Everyone around here acts like they can actually know anything real about a drug that has never been studied seriously simply by reading anecdotal reports from users.


Why does everyone here assume that serious studies aren't necessary to truly understand drugs like this and the physical consequences they can have??

It has been studied I think...

 

[liftedgift]

Damn....

I just read up to page 5 of your thread.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to be steering clear of this stuff.

I mean it sounds like it feels AMAZING for as long as it lasts but aside from the HORRIBLE WDs you mentioned does anyone even have any REAL proof that this stuff is safe AT ALL??

Is there any way of proving that chemicals like this don't cause cancer or heart disease or brain damage etc?

I heard people say that they thought it was dangerous for their kidneys too, is that true?

It's so terrible that all the drugs which sound like they can really bring out a person's true potential are always so dangerous.


Actually the descriptions of this also sound a bit like that drug Prolintane that people have been talking about.


I just wanted a safe drug I could use to substitute for Klonopin like once or twice a week MAX but this doesn't sound like it.


Wish I could try it with how good it sounds like it is at first, but I'm not risking serious bodily damage or horrible withdrawal.

Everyone around here acts like they can actually know anything real about a drug that has never been studied seriously simply by reading anecdotal reports from users.


Why does everyone here assume that serious studies aren't necessary to truly understand drugs like this and the physical consequences they can have??

Pinpoint's review is spot on. I really enjoyed exercise while taking phenibut and it will make you extremely horny. Getting off of it sucked, but I tried tapering very slowly with just kratom as an aid. But then I heard about gapapetin and it made the WD more bearable. I didn't dose for multiple months after I got off but I will still dose occasionally. I still get nice euphoria(maybe not as strong as when I first started) and the oh so comforting feeling of knowing it will be an excellent day that I always get with phenibut. I usually take 3 grams now and anything past 4 now will have my motor skills completely fucked.

I know nothing about the pharmacology but I was sure to eat 2-3 bananas a day when I was on phenibut because my mind was convinced I would get cramps otherwise. It starts to suck when you sleep for 8+ hours but you don't feel refreshed, like I missed the REM sleep cycle or something. That's kinda when the fun stopped.

I would MUCH rather take phenibut daily again for 6 months rather than take klonopin for 6 months though. IMO it is much easier to deal with and there wasn't so much of a PAWS with phenibut that people report with benzos. That's just me.

 

[Mycophile]

So is there anyone that would say it's likely that a person could keep Phenibut usage to once a week without getting addicted?

Would most who have tried it advise against it?

And does anyone know if it is proven or proven not to cause kidney damage, liver damage, cancer, heart damage, etc?


I am looking for something that could replace the Klonopin I used just for maybe one or two days a week without causing dependence and decreasing anxiety.

Does anyone know what LEGAL drugs could fit that description?

 

[Joey24x18]

I read somewhere that phenibut can actually protect your heart from damage. I'll have to dig that info up. As for cancer, well I'm convinced every thing causes that now days lol life causes cancer.
I'm 6 months into a daily phenibut habit. I'm not looking forward to the withdrawal. It's a very interesting, amazing substance though. Pinpoints description of killing all anxiety and MDMA like effects are spot on.
I tried to only dose once a week. But life is so much easier when you're on phenibut. Lol. I'll pay the price for my stupidity soon enough.

 

[Jabberwocky]

If it affects you the way it affected me and many others you will probably have a hard time sticking to a schedule. Life was just so much better with it, and the pros outweighed the cons by far. The withdrawal was horrendous, but if I could do it all over again I wouldn't change a thing. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Phenibut was one drug that changed my life for the better and many of the friendships, successes and positive habits I have today are a direct result of my experience with Phenibut. It was like an IRL version of the drug from the movie Limitless, for me, at least.

always enjoy reading about your LOVE for Phenibut; I was once/am the same way.

I found Phenibut back in 07/08 when I was looking for something like GHB but could not get GHB so tried this thing called "Phenibut". well, when I first took the pills I was taking 3000MG/day, sometimes twice a day, and my days were FUCKING GREAT! sure, i was PASS OUT that night and it was almost like a druken stuper type knock out, but other than that the Phenibut made my day/life great at the time.

from there I learned more and more about the MG and what SHOULD and SHOULD not be happening, so I relaxed w/ my 6000MG a day and dropped it to 2000MG once in the AM, or even less at times.

you cannot take this daily, although, I did for a long time and went through withdrawals myself. I've been through benzo and heroin withdrawals, so I never thought the Phenibut was that bad; plus, I used OTHER drugs to help w/ the withdrawals, so never had a big problem but surly felt them a bit.

I just ran out of Phenibut the other day but in no rush to order more. like you said, I doesnt HIT me the same way it once did.

 

[Mycophile]

Ok, so I know I've already asked a bunch of questions but I have one/two more:

For people who have done both Phenibut and Kratom which one would you say is more physically addictive and which do most think would be more difficult to avoid dependency with?


Is it close or is one (I'm guessing Phenibut) much more addictive and much more problematic?

And has anyone here ever actually experienced SERIOUS health problems from Phenibut?

Thanks

 

[Jabberwocky]

maybe its because I was/am a heron addict, but I never understood people and their Kratom use; its pointless if you ask a true opiate fiend but Phenibut still worked even when on dope.

I always went w/ Phenibut; I had Kratom before but it did ZERO for me but I am NOT the right person to ask since I would shoot dope and then eat Phenibut minutes later.

maybe its just me, but these are 2 totally different drugs. if you are trying to decide which one to get, just go w/ BOTH since they are different and have different ways on the body.

Kratom is more like an Opiate type high; or so they say.. dont ask a true dope fiend this question.
Phenibut is more of a GHB type high; just an overall sense of well being, which can come from dope, but for most Phenibut seems to give them a rush and make them feel more comfortable and able to put themselves in many different situations.