i have taken benzos, ghb, alcohol, every other type of drug basically and i have never experienced anything similar to phenibut when it comes to paradoxical reactions..when i take a larger dose of phenibut, 3 grams and up, one second i feel like nodding off but the next im in a manic hyper-energetic state..if i force myself to workout while on a higher dose, i get an amazing workout in, im really social and energetic, upbeat etc etc.. no other type of drug affects me in this manner in terms of providing a very energetic yet not jittery type feeling..what is so special about phenibut?it is like a downer and upper in one...
Misc Phenibut-hypomania and Tiredness??
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velmwend
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Phenibut is like no other drug I've ever taken. OK, shush, let's keep this on hushhush. okay, let's not go on too much about phenibut because it's saved my life. I take ( I have taken just over 500mg once per week, just before bed) 500mg every week for a year and have experienced nothing but positive results every time. If you're a moody, anti-social, nervous wreck like me, then phenibut will have an enomously positive impact on your life. NEVER take more than a good 500mg every week, or you will, yet again, destroy the regular benefits of another drug, catapult it into mainstream consciousness and totally fook it up for yourselves...again!
《Plasticity》
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Lol call me immature but I laugh everytime I read that word
... Joking aside I find phenibut more stimulating than sedating, it definately makes me manic in high doses, mania isn't always a bad thing though when shit needs to get done. Baclofen is very similar and has near identical effects for me although I find baclofen more recreational. I wouldn't call this a paradoxical reaction, phenibut is just a strange drug.oh 500 mgs wouldnt do much for me..my daily dosage is 1000 mgs and thats basically a maintenance dose..when i really want to feel its powerful mood boosting, anti-anxiety effects i take 2 grams and above..there are times im pretty damn shocked at how potent this stuff is..i dont even get high off it, im talking just as far as mood elevation goes..
Jabberwocky
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Sorry but this is just plain wrong. Everyone is different and natural tolerance to any given drug varies greatly from person to person. Some people only need 200-500 mg in order to achieve the desired effects (the definition of "desired effects" also varies greatly between people and the situation in which the drug is consumed affects this as well) while others might need as much as 2 g and taking a dose larger than 500 mg once a week wont necessarily result in people "fooking it up for themselves"
Timland
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This happened to me twice. I was in a state of insomnia in a sort of depersonalized slightly dysphoric fog headed state for 24-36 hours, then when I could finally sleep.. I slept a solid 22 hours.. and I don't think my body moved at all from the position it was when I closed my eyes, woke up sore as fuck.
It felt like a dysphoric drunkenness the first 24 or so hours. The depersonalization dissociation type feeling was the ugliest effect for me.
This is definitely not a drug to play with imo - that is, use it purely for recreation. I am surprised it is sold so widely in supplement stores etc. Not that I am against laissez-faire availability of drugs, just surprised is all. IMO phenibut and supplements containing it should probably be 18+ etc. Since it is a GABA-ergic it can very well cause physical dependency that would result in dangerous acute withdrawal complications in severe cases. All GABA-ergics should probably be labelled to advise against using more than a week without medical advice and not stopping suddenly if one did use past a week without advice of a doctor.
That said, I am of the opinion that an adult should be able to purchase and ingest any drug they desire. But black box labelling [all caps warnings about serious risks with a drug] is something that should probably be used on OTC stuff not just Rx too. But IMO this is definitely not something minors should have access to without a medical reason.
Considering the wide availability of Phenibut, the low cost, and the fact its an FDA GRAS/E supplement, I am surprised it hasnt been in the news much for things like impaired driving, overdose, and serious injuries from withdrawal that occurs when one is dependent on GABA modulating drug.
Phenibut apparently agonizes GABA-A at higher doses. Whereas normal doses only agonize GABA-B. But agonizing either alone is enough to eventually cause physical dependency over time. And not the kind you can safely cold turkey from.
It also interacts with Phenethylamine which is the backbone skeleton for the vast majority of psychostimulants including Amphetamines. Perhaps just a coincidence and not consequential but something to consider for the paradoxical mania state. Phenibut is linked to increased DA levels in the CNS also, which is likely what yields the mania at first.
It felt like a dysphoric drunkenness the first 24 or so hours. The depersonalization dissociation type feeling was the ugliest effect for me.
This is definitely not a drug to play with imo - that is, use it purely for recreation. I am surprised it is sold so widely in supplement stores etc. Not that I am against laissez-faire availability of drugs, just surprised is all. IMO phenibut and supplements containing it should probably be 18+ etc. Since it is a GABA-ergic it can very well cause physical dependency that would result in dangerous acute withdrawal complications in severe cases. All GABA-ergics should probably be labelled to advise against using more than a week without medical advice and not stopping suddenly if one did use past a week without advice of a doctor.
That said, I am of the opinion that an adult should be able to purchase and ingest any drug they desire. But black box labelling [all caps warnings about serious risks with a drug] is something that should probably be used on OTC stuff not just Rx too. But IMO this is definitely not something minors should have access to without a medical reason.
Considering the wide availability of Phenibut, the low cost, and the fact its an FDA GRAS/E supplement, I am surprised it hasnt been in the news much for things like impaired driving, overdose, and serious injuries from withdrawal that occurs when one is dependent on GABA modulating drug
Phenibut apparently agonizes GABA-A at higher doses. Whereas normal doses only agonize GABA-B. But agonizing either alone is enough to eventually cause physical dependency over time. And not the kind you can safely cold turkey from.
It also interacts with Phenethylamine which is the backbone skeleton for the vast majority of psychostimulants including Amphetamines. Perhaps just a coincidence and not consequential but something to consider for the paradoxical mania state. Phenibut is linked to increased DA levels in the CNS also, which is likely what yields the mania at first.
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pinpoint
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I get the same reaction as OP.
Phenibut is a downer when I want to be down - and when I say down I can literally close my eyes and be asleep before I'm able to count backwards from 10. On the other hand if I start to socialize, work-out or do anything that would naturally increase DA levels I get insane hypomanic euphoria. As a former IV speedball enthusiast I'm slightly embarrassed to admit that I had probably the most euphoric day of my life while on this drug. That day involved nothing but 5 grams of Phenibut, 20 miles of jogging & music. Normally if you gave me 20 miles of jogging & an iPod I'd call a cab and tell you to go shit in your hat.
There's definitely some downstream effects happening with the GABA-B system and it's my opinion that there is a 'chemical cascade' that affects more than our CNS, such as temporarily curing my asthma, gaining weight & muscle rapidly, sore joints, undigested stool, etc.
PS. Like stated above, eventually the magic disappears and a permanent tolerance sets in. My advice: enjoy the honeymoon - IT IS WORTH THE DIVORCE PROCEEDINGS.
Phenibut is a downer when I want to be down - and when I say down I can literally close my eyes and be asleep before I'm able to count backwards from 10. On the other hand if I start to socialize, work-out or do anything that would naturally increase DA levels I get insane hypomanic euphoria. As a former IV speedball enthusiast I'm slightly embarrassed to admit that I had probably the most euphoric day of my life while on this drug. That day involved nothing but 5 grams of Phenibut, 20 miles of jogging & music. Normally if you gave me 20 miles of jogging & an iPod I'd call a cab and tell you to go shit in your hat.
There's definitely some downstream effects happening with the GABA-B system and it's my opinion that there is a 'chemical cascade' that affects more than our CNS, such as temporarily curing my asthma, gaining weight & muscle rapidly, sore joints, undigested stool, etc.
PS. Like stated above, eventually the magic disappears and a permanent tolerance sets in. My advice: enjoy the honeymoon - IT IS WORTH THE DIVORCE PROCEEDINGS.
^^ive found the best way to use phenibut is by going with a small daily dosage, maybe 500 mgs to 1 gram...then on days you want to feel its true effects, you raise it to 3 grams or so..this is what i have been doing and damn it still packs a punch on those days i raise dosage..ive been using it for a few years so..
but yes, workouts are much improved..phenibut actually makes leg workouts somewhat enjoyable and thats saying a lot! lol...the immense mood lift is really something as it does not have any of the nasty jittery effects of caffeine or other stims..
as for being legal, err i dont know where i stand on this..i could easily see kids buying this and just start eating tablespoons and getting into trouble..thing is with phenibut and addiction, you wont run into problems much in this area as its so cheap..you wont run out and pawn your tv for a tub of phenibut..as for overdosing, has anyone ever died from taking phenibut?ive read stories of people sleeping for days after taking large doses but not much in the way of Er visits..
but yes, workouts are much improved..phenibut actually makes leg workouts somewhat enjoyable and thats saying a lot! lol...the immense mood lift is really something as it does not have any of the nasty jittery effects of caffeine or other stims..
as for being legal, err i dont know where i stand on this..i could easily see kids buying this and just start eating tablespoons and getting into trouble..thing is with phenibut and addiction, you wont run into problems much in this area as its so cheap..you wont run out and pawn your tv for a tub of phenibut..as for overdosing, has anyone ever died from taking phenibut?ive read stories of people sleeping for days after taking large doses but not much in the way of Er visits..
Jabberwocky
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I find it quite surprising that you are still able to get something out of Phenibut after taking it daily for a few years but you do realise that you are psychically addicted to the stuff right? If you take it everyday without exception when you probably wont notice but I assure you that you will find out the hard way if you try to quit it at some point.
Jabberwocky
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He said that, in his own case, he had found that the best way to use Phenibut was 500-1000 mg a day. I doubt that this is in anyway the best way to use a drug with a high potential for psychical addiction and wanted to make sure that he realises this so that he wont find out the hard way 5 years from now as it will be even harder to quit by then.
In retrospective, I can see how my post could come off as "preaching" but it was, by no means, my intention.
oh sure im dependent on phenibut but again, its very cheap and its pretty easy to kick using a handful of gabapentin..my biggest gripe against phenibut is the brain fog it creates at times..it can be quite pronounced..another positive pheni has going for it it actually boosts sex drive which is the exact opposite of what most anti-anxiety drugs do..like i said though, best way to use pheni is a very low daily dose but when you want it to work its magic, triple your daily dose, whallah!
Jabberwocky
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Yeah, but then you would be just as addicted to gabapentin, so whats the point in that? Its a geniune quistion, ´cause I just cant see it.
The brainfog is definitely one of the downsides to phenibut but I find that it only happens to me when doses are set too high or sometimes at the end of the day, around sleeping time (I always take my dose in the morning as the first thing)
I get the enhancement in sexual drive too, unfortunately, my GF has gone to nepal for 3 months so its more of a side effect to me for the time being
I must say that I really dont follow your logic about whats the best way to use this drug. To me, the worst way(s), is always the one(s) that makes you end up with more downsides than upsides and to me, one of the biggest downside to any drug is addiction and dependence, especially if discontinuation will result in psychical withdrawls.
Then again, people are different and you know your body better than anyone else, I just dont hope that you will end up regretting your daily use bigtime in the future.
The brainfog is definitely one of the downsides to phenibut but I find that it only happens to me when doses are set too high or sometimes at the end of the day, around sleeping time (I always take my dose in the morning as the first thing)
I get the enhancement in sexual drive too, unfortunately, my GF has gone to nepal for 3 months so its more of a side effect to me for the time being
I must say that I really dont follow your logic about whats the best way to use this drug. To me, the worst way(s), is always the one(s) that makes you end up with more downsides than upsides and to me, one of the biggest downside to any drug is addiction and dependence, especially if discontinuation will result in psychical withdrawls.
Then again, people are different and you know your body better than anyone else, I just dont hope that you will end up regretting your daily use bigtime in the future.
^^no i have quit phenibut twice in the past using gabapentin..i used 600 mgs of gabapentin the first 2 days after getting off phenibut, then tapered to 400 for 2 days, then 200 for the lkast 2 days and then off..that way i was left with minor insomnia and anxiety issues i already suffer from but no dependence on gabapentin or phenibut..gabapentin only works for 3 days for me anyways, beyond that and im not a functional person on it..again though, until i find something that gives the pronounced mood, energy and anti0anxiety effects of phenibut, then im staying on it..
Jabberwocky
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Okay, sounds like Gabapentin is working really well for you in this context, I would never have thought that it would be even half as easy for you to get off Phenibut, even with Gabapentin but glad to hear it.
velmwend
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Sorry but this is just plain wrong. Everyone is different and natural tolerance to any given drug varies greatly from person to person. Some people only need 200-500 mg in order to achieve the desired effects (the definition of "desired effects" also varies greatly between people and the situation in which the drug is consumed affects this as well) while others might need as much as 2 g and taking a dose larger than 500 mg once a week wont necessarily result in people "fooking it up for themselves"
You're right. The key is short-term experimentation. But remain firmly in control of a dosage regime or you will ... proper fook it up.
^^honestly i dont know anyone that has success with 'short term experimentation' with phenibut..i know a few people that werent affected at all by phenibut but others act like its MDMA..the people for whom it works for tend to want to do it again, and again..lol..
I've been taking phenibut every day for almost 3 years. I started at about 300 mg/day, and gradually went up to 1.5 to 2 grams a day during the past couple months. I noticed it was becoming a problem for me, like I was getting some side effects for the first time, but the main issue I had was that I knew about the addictive nature of phenibut and I knew that I was severely down-regulating my gaba receptors, which is not smart.
So this week I decided to cut back to a gram a day for a while and the eventually try to go down more from there. I was fine on my first day of 1 gram, but for the next 3 days I felt like I was on a non-psychedelic version of LSD --- it was kind of cool in some ways, my focus was phenomenal and I didn't experience any sleepiness, including overnight. I had to take a combo of other things to get any sleep at all. I've taken the PEA (phenethylamine) + MAO-B inhibitor combination a few times, and that's pretty much what I was feeling, except it was on overdrive and it lasted all day and night.
Phenibut is thought to antagonize PEA, so it makes sense that if you take away the phenibut after a long period of use, there would be a rebound effect of too much PEA activity. So this adds to the rebound of the GABA receptors, which are used to being loaded with phenibut but are now deprived of that so that they can't function as inhibitors of other neurochemical pathways. And I will add this bit of speculation: Since phenibut is dopaminergic (by some mechanism that I don't understand), if you take away a dopaminergic drug then you're probably going to get a rebound of increased serotonin receptor activity because dopamine inhibits serotonin release (and vice-versa.)
The result of just the 3 effects I mentioned above, which are only part of the phenibut story, is that coming off of phenibut can feel like a totally disinhibited nervous system flooded with PEA and strong serotonin activity. Disinhibition would also seem to spike norepinephrine activity. The combo of all these effects is exactly like what I was experiencing. The "cure" I found for these symptoms was to go back up to 1.5 grams of phenibut. I admit it, I'm a phenibut addict, but as far as addictions go I'd say this one is among the least harmful. It hasn't had a negative effect that I know of, neither on my health nor my moods, thoughts, or behavior. It's just a problem because I got in a habit of taking too much too often, and I'm going to slowly cut back.
I've given phenibut to several noobs and I always provide them with 1.5 to 2 grams for their first experience, so that they can really get the beauty of it. None of them have developed any problem with it, but none of them are drug-seekers to begin with. They all LOVED it! And I think the reason they don't immediately go out and buy a kilo of it is that the effects are so long-lasting, lingering for as much as 24 hours even at 1.5 grams. I would never dose anyone over 2 grams, nor would I ever advise anyone to take it daily or on any regular basis at doses of more than 500 mg to occasionally 1 gram/day. As a treat, taking it at a higher dose for recreation once in a while doesn't appear to be a problem, unless you just don't happen to enjoy it.
So this week I decided to cut back to a gram a day for a while and the eventually try to go down more from there. I was fine on my first day of 1 gram, but for the next 3 days I felt like I was on a non-psychedelic version of LSD --- it was kind of cool in some ways, my focus was phenomenal and I didn't experience any sleepiness, including overnight. I had to take a combo of other things to get any sleep at all. I've taken the PEA (phenethylamine) + MAO-B inhibitor combination a few times, and that's pretty much what I was feeling, except it was on overdrive and it lasted all day and night.
Phenibut is thought to antagonize PEA, so it makes sense that if you take away the phenibut after a long period of use, there would be a rebound effect of too much PEA activity. So this adds to the rebound of the GABA receptors, which are used to being loaded with phenibut but are now deprived of that so that they can't function as inhibitors of other neurochemical pathways. And I will add this bit of speculation: Since phenibut is dopaminergic (by some mechanism that I don't understand), if you take away a dopaminergic drug then you're probably going to get a rebound of increased serotonin receptor activity because dopamine inhibits serotonin release (and vice-versa.)
The result of just the 3 effects I mentioned above, which are only part of the phenibut story, is that coming off of phenibut can feel like a totally disinhibited nervous system flooded with PEA and strong serotonin activity. Disinhibition would also seem to spike norepinephrine activity. The combo of all these effects is exactly like what I was experiencing. The "cure" I found for these symptoms was to go back up to 1.5 grams of phenibut. I admit it, I'm a phenibut addict, but as far as addictions go I'd say this one is among the least harmful. It hasn't had a negative effect that I know of, neither on my health nor my moods, thoughts, or behavior. It's just a problem because I got in a habit of taking too much too often, and I'm going to slowly cut back.
I've given phenibut to several noobs and I always provide them with 1.5 to 2 grams for their first experience, so that they can really get the beauty of it. None of them have developed any problem with it, but none of them are drug-seekers to begin with. They all LOVED it! And I think the reason they don't immediately go out and buy a kilo of it is that the effects are so long-lasting, lingering for as much as 24 hours even at 1.5 grams. I would never dose anyone over 2 grams, nor would I ever advise anyone to take it daily or on any regular basis at doses of more than 500 mg to occasionally 1 gram/day. As a treat, taking it at a higher dose for recreation once in a while doesn't appear to be a problem, unless you just don't happen to enjoy it.