Misc Phenibut acidity

[ferinox]

I became addicted to rather large doses of phenibut when I was living with an ex army roommate who was prone to violent outburst. I'm taking 10 grams a day. Depressingly, this daily dose is actually a product of an ongoing taper. 1 scoop less a week which is about 750 mg. The withdrawal it's similar to benzos and I hate myself for getting into this gabaergic prison again. This time i feel confident in myself at least because I made it through that as unhappy as I am too be in this situation.

Phenibut has a couple additional problems over benzos. The most immediate is it's like drinking battery acid every day. After choking down my daily dose, my stomach hurts. It's only after the dose right now and I want to keep it that way. I was wondering if baking soda could buffer the acidity without effecting potency. The extra salt wouldn't be good but it's probably preferable to developing an ulcer. I was wondering if anyone else had any insights to deal with the acidity as well and who could speculate about potential potency changes.

My other concern is that I translated Russian literature a long time ago which I can no longer find. It stated that long term dosing over 6 grams a day should be avoided due to the potential for liver damage. I donated blood a couple months ago and I saw someone say they were deferred due to elevated liver enzymes. If they actually do test that, if would be a tremendous relief because they must have accepted the blood because they sent me a donor card. Can anyone comment on that and did anyone take phenibut long term and develop liver issues?

 

[negrogesic]

That is a substantial dose. Hepatotoxicity is a valid concern at that dose range. I am not sure how long you've been dosing so high (and apparently, higher), but it is crucial that you see a physician and run some blood work. I've never heard of liver failure with this compound, but damage has certainly been known to occur.

Another concern could arise from the incidence of eosinophilia that is associated with massive doses of this compound, which can manifest as a drug allergy (potentially resulting in something resembling DRESS syndrome -- a severe and sometimes fatal event).

Clearly, you need to continue on a downward titration. Alternatively, you could reduce somewhat, then switch to baclofen, or use gabapentin as an adjunct. Also, though I hate to recommend them (and the cross tolerance if far from complete), you could probably switch to benzodiazapines (in which case you'll be faced with a different -- albeit less physically toxic -- dilemma). The best scenario would be to gradually reduce your dose, but you'll need to get a blood test to see if your body is willing to hang on for the time being.

 

[Oakstone]

I agree with negrogesic about tapering and whatnot.

About the acidity itself: I've thought of buffering the acidity as well, but from the various things I've read about phenibut, I saw somewhere that it has to be in an acidic environment to work, which is (one) reason why you should take it on an empty stomach. If there's food in your stomach additionally, it's much less acidic overall and won't be absorbed nearly as well. So, I think the phenibut needs to be acidic to work, and buffering it with baking soda or another base would probably make it not work. Just conjecture on my part, though.

 

[ferinox]

That is a substantial dose. Hepatotoxicity is a valid concern at that dose range. I am not sure how long you've been dosing so high (and apparently, higher), but it is crucial that you see a physician and run some blood work. I've never heard of liver failure with this compound, but damage has certainly been known to occur.

Another concern could arise from the incidence of eosinophilia that is associated with massive doses of this compound, which can manifest as a drug allergy (potentially resulting in something resembling DRESS syndrome -- a severe and sometimes fatal event).

Clearly, you need to continue on a downward titration. Alternatively, you could reduce somewhat, then switch to baclofen, or use gabapentin as an adjunct. Also, though I hate to recommend them (and the cross tolerance if far from complete), you could probably switch to benzodiazapines (in which case you'll be faced with a different -- albeit less physically toxic -- dilemma). The best scenario would be to gradually reduce your dose, but you'll need to get a blood test to see if your body is willing to hang on for the time being.

I definitely should go in for blood work I just hope they don't require up front payment because I don't have it.

Baclofen is the ideal med I think and should be the smoothest transition.I actually saw a review where someone was taking 8 grams of Phenibut a day and they found that 1 gram of Phenibut was about equal to 10 mg baclofen. Words can't describe how much I wish I was on 100 mg of baclofen instead. The problem is I can't get weekdays off and I can't really afford a weekly visit to the doctors. I'm confident I could handle a phase in/phase out but I'm sure a doctor wouldn't share that confidence.

The only other case I found on google was someone who had taken 1 gram a day for a few months or something like that, it's been awhile since I read it. They put him in an artificially induced coma until the withdrawal it's over.I'm not even joking, that's how uninformed doctors are about Phenibut. Medical professionals actually consulted together and said, fuck it, just put him in a benzo coma until it blows over.

As for my use, I've been on Phenibut at varying doses for a year and a half. My highest dose was 12 grams but I wasn't at that point for very long.Searching Phenibut and hepatotoxicity in Russian brings up page after page saying that over 7 grams can cause fatty liver and easinophilia and recommends periodic blood work. Searching liver failure and Phenibut only brings up pages that say not take it if you have liver failure.Whether that's because it's unlikely or because people are better monitored on it in Russia doesn't really matter because I'm determined to not become the first idiot who experiences it.I've been over the alleged toxic dose for 9 months, most of that at 7.5 grams. The toxic threshold most likely dropped for me even if that's accurate due to cumulative effects.

Gabapentin greatly helped in expediting my benzo taper but I'm skeptical about it helping Phenibut. Gabapentin inhibits gaba aminotransferase which would potentiate a a drug that relies on gaba for obvious reasons. Phenibut is also speculated by some researchers to effect gaba a at high doses so a pam at gaba a while leaving gaba b untouched doesn't seem like a feasible approach. I appreciate the suggestions, I already thought about all those actually, we both obviously have some experience with gabaergic withdrawal unfortunately lol.

That would suck if phenibut doesn't work unless in an acidic environment I believe Phenibut faa isn't acidic and it works but don't quote me on that.