☮ Social ☮ PD Social Distancing Talk Thread: Swirly Congregation That's 100% Pandemic-Proof

[Cream Gravy?]

I haven't had a weed edible in years. Most times I'm disappointed/just feel tired but sometimes it just straight kicks my ass for hours.

 

[Xorkoth]

Edibles are by far my favorite way to consume weed. You just need to know how much you're consuming. Even though my state doesn't even have medical yet, legal state weed edibles are everywhere. If you know the percentage of your weed, you can calculate how much is in each edible. I also sometimes have made "fire crackers" (peanut butter graham sandwich crackers with weed ground into the peanut butter and baked) with weed I don't know the percentage of... I figure I am going for like 5 doses per gram (that's fine for me, in fact I usually eat halves so it extends to more) and occasionally it's kicked my ass but it's not too hard to make them to dose properly, you tend to have somewhat of an idea about general weed quality.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I'm determined to wean myself off of alcohol and Ativan once and for all with Klonopin. This past week I've been averaging 8-12 beers and 8-12 mg. of Ativan a day, which is just insane.

I got my Klons refilled today, and if I reduce it by 1 mg. a day I'll be off of it in about 10 days. The only other thing that I'm taking is caffeine to keep the Klon from putting me to sleep.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Last night I woke up an hour after falling asleep feeling restless and anxious, with a lot of neck tension and a general sense of physical discomfort. Last sunday night I had exactly the same thing happen. I figured; the only common element in those two events, besides taking place in a sunday night, is that both times I took Phenibut the day before.

I never had this happened from phenibut, but could it be some sort of rebound anxiety? I know this could happen if I was using daily and the stopped. But for only one use ??? Has anyone ever had this happen?

That happens to me a lot, usually when I'm sleep-deprived and fall asleep quickly. I get startled awake in a panic with an overwhelming sense of impending doom. With me I think it's stress-related. Hope you feel better.

 

[Xorkoth]

That's great dreamflyer, but I'm wondering how long you have been taking that much ativan? Clonazepam is a good benzo to taper with as it has a long half-life, but if you're dependent on benzos, that is probably way too aggressive of a taper. Though I guess you may be quite experienced and know yourself. In any case be vigilant for signs of seizures and delusional thoughts, as those mean that you're in dangerous territory. And it would just mean to slow down your taper. Usually people go for a very long taper with benzos, reduce by 10% per week basically. But if you haven't been taking these doses for long, it may be that you can get away with a rapid taper. Either way, good luck!

 

[Jabberwocky]

That's great dreamflyer, but I'm wondering how long you have been taking that much ativan? Clonazepam is a good benzo to taper with as it has a long half-life, but if you're dependent on benzos, that is probably way too aggressive of a taper. Though I guess you may be quite experienced and know yourself. In any case be vigilant for signs of seizures and delusional thoughts, as those mean that you're in dangerous territory. And it would just mean to slow down your taper. Usually people go for a very long taper with benzos, reduce by 10% per week basically. But if you haven't been taking these doses for long, it may be that you can get away with a rapid taper. Either way, good luck!

I'm ashamed to admit being this foolish, but in the past I've come off of absolutely inhuman amounts of Ativan (like 30 mg. a day, no exaggeration) cold-turkey and never had any kind of psychosis or seizure activity... knock on wood! This time I've only been taking it on-and-off and not nearly that much, so I think I'll be okay with the Klonopin taper. I'll just take it one day at a time and see how I feel. Thanks so much for your concern. I hope that you're doing well.

Peace, Love and Faith,
Dreamflyer

 

[Vastness]

I'm ashamed to admit being this foolish, but in the past I've come off of absolutely inhuman amounts of Ativan (like 30 mg. a day, no exaggeration) cold-turkey and never had any kind of psychosis or seizure activity... knock on wood! This time I've only been taking it on-and-off and not nearly that much, so I think I'll be okay with the Klonopin taper. I'll just take it one day at a time and see how I feel. Thanks so much for your concern. I hope that you're doing well.

Peace, Love and Faith,
Dreamflyer

This makes me somewhat less concerned for my own benzo habit of recent, thanks for sharing... I managed to not take any on the weekend although I did take 900mg of pregabalin Saturday and 3g phenibut Sunday - the phenibut definitely did the trick for the day, obviously I have a long term permatolerance by now... Today though Monday morning stress lead me to get back on the clonazepam, I've taken, I think, actually 5mg today... oh no, actually it's 3mg, I took 20mg diazepam in the morning instead... I am really worried about seizing though but I dunno if I'm just massively overthinking it... I just got some gabapentin today so I plan to switch to that while I try to get myself off this god damn GABA wagon...

Don't like to cross post but I made another post in other drugs asking for personal experiences of people coming off high doses of benzos, in characteristic fashion I probably made it too damn neurotically regimented for people to bother replying to but I'd really appreciate if you could share some details of your experience... and anyone else who has struggled with benzos who happens to read this in this thread, of course... It must have been 3 weeks now at least of taking some benzos almost every day... maybe even 4... clonazepam is a really nice clean one I find, though, but, yeah, can't be carrying on with this shit... glad to hear you are on a good path also.

 

[Img_9999]

That happens to me a lot, usually when I'm sleep-deprived and fall asleep quickly. I get startled awake in a panic with an overwhelming sense of impending doom. With me I think it's stress-related. Hope you feel better.

Thanks, it actually hasn't happened again. And I haven't taken phenibut since, which further rises my suspicions of it being the culprit. But I just find it so weird that I would get that after only one use. I guess I'll see when I take it again.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Going to clean myself from all my addictions and start a new chapter in life and move on from old friendships which just revolve around endless drug use. Going to spend the next spare months i have to prep myself to start a post grad diploma in science next year to give me something solid in life to focus on had a rather intense trip on 150 ug spent what felt like countless years inside my own mind critiquing every little situation i have ever put myself. Will never touch ketamine and mdma again and cut out the binge drinking benders where i smash bottles of whiskey each week.

Going to set these plans into motion and use LSD more responsibly to set me on the right track and probably skip over taking any high doses soon.

 

[Jabberwocky]

This makes me somewhat less concerned for my own benzo habit of recent, thanks for sharing...

Just be careful though. I've been *extremely* lucky in the sense that I seem to tolerate medication and withdrawal very well. Thinking back on all the stupid things that I've done in the past, I probably should have died 100 times by now. (That's not d---sizing or humblebrag either, believe me. I'm not proud of it; I'm ashamed.)

Peace, Love & Faith,
Dreamflyer

 

[Xorkoth]

This makes me somewhat less concerned for my own benzo habit of recent, thanks for sharing... I managed to not take any on the weekend although I did take 900mg of pregabalin Saturday and 3g phenibut Sunday - the phenibut definitely did the trick for the day, obviously I have a long term permatolerance by now... Today though Monday morning stress lead me to get back on the clonazepam, I've taken, I think, actually 5mg today... oh no, actually it's 3mg, I took 20mg diazepam in the morning instead... I am really worried about seizing though but I dunno if I'm just massively overthinking it... I just got some gabapentin today so I plan to switch to that while I try to get myself off this god damn GABA wagon...

Don't like to cross post but I made another post in other drugs asking for personal experiences of people coming off high doses of benzos, in characteristic fashion I probably made it too damn neurotically regimented for people to bother replying to but I'd really appreciate if you could share some details of your experience... and anyone else who has struggled with benzos who happens to read this in this thread, of course... It must have been 3 weeks now at least of taking some benzos almost every day... maybe even 4... clonazepam is a really nice clean one I find, though, but, yeah, can't be carrying on with this shit... glad to hear you are on a good path also.

My guess would be you're not going to seize, but it's possible you would suffer quite a bit. Taking days off is a very good thing, but another BLer told me that every time she comes off of etizolam periods (like 6+mg a day), she takes gabapentin to mask withdrawal, but without it, it sucks ass.

Personally, I have taken etizolam a lot since GHB, helping me to sleep, filling in the anxiety cracks sometimes. I mean I am not anymore since my detox started, but I would dose it like 4 nights in a row, and then take 1-2 days off. Occasionally during stim binges I would take it 7-9 days in a row, and then take 3-4 days off. I also only ever took it at night, taking gabaergics 24/7 leads much more rapidly to physical dependence. I was beginning to feel rebound anxiety and insomnia, but not full-on withdrawal. I would proceed assuming that this rate of usage, if it has not already led to dependence, will certainly lead to dependence. I hope I'm not harping, I just don't want to see you struggle with benzo addiction. ♥

Thanks, it actually hasn't happened again. And I haven't taken phenibut since, which further rises my suspicions of it being the culprit. But I just find it so weird that I would get that after only one use. I guess I'll see when I take it again.

That is really odd, especially if you never got that before.

Going to clean myself from all my addictions and start a new chapter in life and move on from old friendships which just revolve around endless drug use. Going to spend the next spare months i have to prep myself to start a post grad diploma in science next year to give me something solid in life to focus on had a rather intense trip on 150 ug spent what felt like countless years inside my own mind critiquing every little situation i have ever put myself. Will never touch ketamine and mdma again and cut out the binge drinking benders where i smash bottles of whiskey each week.

Going to set these plans into motion and use LSD more responsibly to set me on the right track and probably skip over taking any high doses soon.

Awesome man, I wish you the best of luck. If you find yourself trying and failing, I recommend finding some way to be able to stay somewhere away from any ability to obtain the substances you're trying to quit, and stay there for a month or more. That's what I'm doing and it's working great, at least for this month. Try really hard to replace the substances with something else (daily exercise works better than anything else). Try to establish new patterns. Basically cutting yourself off and putting yourself outside of the possibility of cheating is the best way I've found to force a break... 30 days of a new way of living is enough to begin to get past the acute cravings. Although it will still require work to maintain. daily, intense exercise is absolutely key.

 

[Pfafffed]

So delta 8 surprised me. I've always loathed delta 9— it's the most horrible feeling drug I've ever taken, and it destroys my memory for weeks afterwards. You know that time gramma got into your brownies and thought that she was dying? That's me on a single drag off of a joint.

Delta 8, however, is a bit different for me. It still gets me +++ on 2C-E level "can't make sense out of reality" fucked up with intense closed eyes visuals. But it's like there's a demarcation between its headspace and the delta 9 horror hellscape, like I'm in the eye of the storm. It's not a calm or safe place precisely, but I can see the threat is being held back. And my memory isn't terribly affected the next day.

Is it fun? No, not especially. I don't even know if it's all that safe. But I DO know that it helps with my insomnia wonderfully. I don't know if it helps me fall asleep any faster, but I much prefer tripping out to the point of incoherence until consciousness disappears to frustrated tossing and turning for hours. And I wake up refreshed, so that's nice! When paired with some CBD/hemp flower, it's way less psychedelic and more like a sleeping pill

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I've noticed the duration of D8 is an hour or two less than cannabis (though with high tolerance, regular ol'
weed only lasts an hour with another 1-2 hours of comedown ime). But that's honestly fine by me. It doesn't have the same "I need sleep" feeling after I start to come down, it just kinda... goes away I guess lol.

Really quite interesting. I get mega stoned from it. If I sit and hit it every few minutes while watching a movie it's great. I watched Once Upon a Time in Hollywood (highly recommend) while tripping on some psilacetin+clonazepam last week and vaped hard through all three hours of the movie and it felt like I was just stuck on the couch, enraptured by the film. No paranoia at all, and I can't say it was due to the clonaz because I've been on benzos daily for a year now just about, my tolerance is high and clonaz has never cut through psilacetin before.

I can't tell you guys how excited I am for my next trip plus some D8 plus whatever benzo/s I might throw in. Ultimate movie watching combo right there.

 

[Xorkoth]

So delta 8 surprised me. I've always loathed delta 9— it's the most horrible feeling drug I've ever taken, and it destroys my memory for weeks afterwards. You know that time gramma got into your brownies and thought that she was dying? That's me on a single drag off of a joint.

Delta 8, however, is a bit different for me. It still gets me +++ on 2C-E level "can't make sense out of reality" fucked up with intense closed eyes visuals. But it's like there's a demarcation between its headspace and the delta 9 horror hellscape, like I'm in the eye of the storm. It's not a calm or safe place precisely, but I can see the threat is being held back. And my memory isn't terribly affected the next day.

Is it fun? No, not especially. I don't even know if it's all that safe. But I DO know that it helps with my insomnia wonderfully. I don't know if it helps me fall asleep any faster, but I much prefer tripping out to the point of incoherence until consciousness disappears to frustrated tossing and turning for hours. And I wake up refreshed, so that's nice! When paired with some CBD/hemp flower, it's way less psychedelic and more like a sleeping pill

Yeah, an "eye of the storm" feeling is a good way to put it. The craziness is there (though not as much as with D9), but it doesn't make me feel uncomfortable or afraid. It's basically weed lite for me, but still a powerful mind-altering drug, and it doesn't feel less "natural" or safe. It is a natural cannabinoid after all, which you are consuming to some degree in at least some weed strains. Not that that proves it's safe, but I feel much, much more comfortable with it than with any synthetic noids (which I just have no desire to touch anymore at all).

 

[Vastness]

Just be careful though. I've been *extremely* lucky in the sense that I seem to tolerate medication and withdrawal very well. Thinking back on all the stupid things that I've done in the past, I probably should have died 100 times by now. (That's not d---sizing or humblebrag either, believe me. I'm not proud of it; I'm ashamed.)


Peace, Love & Faith,

Dreamflyer

Thanks for the input, yeah, I am very much hoping that my own neurochemistry is somehow seizure resistant too, based on mainly wishful thinking but also that I have no family history of epilepsy or seizures... I feel still that GABAergics seem to treat me fairly well, I can't remember ever suffering greatly after prolonged use of phenibut, for example... at least not overtly, as in, I'm totally cool if I don't have to do anything but I might hate anything that requires effort... Kratom withdrawal even from a relatively short period of use and a relatively average dose of 15gpd was the worst true drug withdrawal I've ever experienced and I find it kinda hard to believe anything could match that. Obviously I'm sure I could get a worse withdrawal if I tried... but I'll try not to.

My guess would be you're not going to seize, but it's possible you would suffer quite a bit. Taking days off is a very good thing, but another BLer told me that every time she comes off of etizolam periods (like 6+mg a day), she takes gabapentin to mask withdrawal, but without it, it sucks ass.

Personally, I have taken etizolam a lot since GHB, helping me to sleep, filling in the anxiety cracks sometimes. I mean I am not anymore since my detox started, but I would dose it like 4 nights in a row, and then take 1-2 days off. Occasionally during stim binges I would take it 7-9 days in a row, and then take 3-4 days off. I also only ever took it at night, taking gabaergics 24/7 leads much more rapidly to physical dependence. I was beginning to feel rebound anxiety and insomnia, but not full-on withdrawal. I would proceed assuming that this rate of usage, if it has not already led to dependence, will certainly lead to dependence. I hope I'm not harping, I just don't want to see you struggle with benzo addiction.

No issue with you harping, you give good advice always and it's always appreciated. I feel like benzos without absurd halflives and shorter durations are safer for me, etizolam I've had a few weeks where I've overindulged but never been particularly worried. These long acting benzos though... I think maybe they're more corrosive to your willpower since you're just slightly fucked up all the time. I notice the effects definitely in my writing, and also coding which is effectively my job, usually I consider my attention to fine detail to be very high but recently I constantly notice typos, missed incorrect autocorrects, waste hours debugging something that's actually just a misspelt variable... shit like that I do not like.

Clonazepam though again, I must say... it's just such a clean anxiolytic. I hope there comes a time that I am happy enough in my daily life that I can take a mg or 2 every now and then, just to smooth out a day, without getting into binge patterns of use... but that time is not now.

Out of clonazepam now and should not get more. Got my gabapentin and a whole bunch of valium... strangely I've never found valium particularly compulsive even though it is obviously very nice. I think maybe the muscle relaxant effects make it feel somehow like a more serious drug whereas clonazepam just feels like... being content with life, most of the time. That contentment is a deceptive road with a dark ending I know though.


edit - oh one more thing that went out of my head no doubt coz of all these stupefying agents I'm on - I think it's fantastic what you're doing @Xorkoth, really glad to hear it's going so well. You're actually doing what myself and probably many other psychedelic enthusiasts who dabble in more harmful classes dream of doing - just quit the toxic harmful shit and only do drugs that you truly, truly enjoy. Good for you man, you're living the dream and are an inspiration to me and I'm sure many others.

 

[Xorkoth]

Thanks man. I am going to try really hard to maintain this after I am done at the cabin. There is no possibility of cheating, here. Well the ONLY way I can see to get high (besides tobacco which I just fully do not want anymore) is propylhexedrine at Walgreens, but my buddy and I have a rule to only go anywhere together and in any case I am not craving that. It's a dry county so no alcohol anywhere. At home, it will be harder, especially when gigging with my band. But I feel so good now, and I figured out how to effectively work out at home without going to a gym, so I am pretty well equipped to succeed, I think.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The one thing that bothers me about Klonopin is that it's *so* subtle, I can never really tell if/when it's working or for how long. Plus they say that the duration can last anywhere from 6-12 hours, which requires a lot of guesswork on my part. If I'm feeling anxious and take an Ativan, I can feel exactly when it kicks in. Not so with Klon.

Also, they say that 1 mg. of Klon is equal to 2 mg. of Ativan, but I've found the opposite to be true. If I took, for example, 16 mg. of Ativan (something that I DO NOT recommend), I'd be a drooling mess and wouldn't remember a thing the next day. But if I took 8 mg. of Klon, I could function perfectly well and have no lapse in memory.

It must have something to do with the delayed reaction and long half-life. It's almost as though it's time-released.

Stay Safe!!!
Dreamflyer

 

[Vastness]

Thanks man. I am going to try really hard to maintain this after I am done at the cabin. There is no possibility of cheating, here. Well the ONLY way I can see to get high (besides tobacco which I just fully do not want anymore) is propylhexedrine at Walgreens, but my buddy and I have a rule to only go anywhere together and in any case I am not craving that. It's a dry county so no alcohol anywhere. At home, it will be harder, especially when gigging with my band. But I feel so good now, and I figured out how to effectively work out at home without going to a gym, so I am pretty well equipped to succeed, I think.

How do you work out at home, out of interest? Am always interested in other people's home workout routines. I bought myself a cheap adjustable bench and some of those blocky adjustable dumbells, y'know the really compact ones, at the beginning of this pandemic and although I haven't used them nearly as much as I thought I would, I dunno if I will bother going to a real gym just to do weights or basic cardio or something even when they all re-open again. I have a pull up bar also so got all the kit I need. Of course you don't need any kit really, I used to use this app MadBarz which has a ton of bodyweight workouts on it for different body parts from 15 minutes to over an hour, I'd recommend it. If I'm being really good and sensible I'll get out my weights shit the night before and workout first thing in the morning... otherwise if I'm feeling less dedicated I'll try to get in at least some kind of short sequence, like I heard this workout idea recently I think originally from David Goggins, do 10 pushups, 5 pullups per minute, until you have to stop. Usually by minute 5 I'm not doing 5 pullups anymore lol but it's a nice cardio/strength shot at the very least.

The one thing that bothers me about Klonopin is that it's *so* subtle, I can never really tell if/when it's working or for how long. Plus they say that the duration can last anywhere from 6-12 hours, which requires a lot of guesswork on my part. If I'm feeling anxious and take an Ativan, I can feel exactly when it kicks in. Not so with Klon.

Also, they say that 1 mg. of Klon is equal to 2 mg. of Ativan, but I've found the opposite to be true. If I took, for example, 16 mg. of Ativan (something that I DO NOT recommend), I'd be a drooling mess and wouldn't remember a thing the next day. But if I took 8 mg. of Klon, I could function perfectly well and have no lapse in memory.

It must have something to do with the delayed reaction and long half-life. It's almost as though it's time-released.

Stay Safe!!!
Dreamflyer

I think for me klonopin is noticeable because of my general anxiety otherwise. I notice they're working because I'm not so paralysed by indecision and not so prone to procrastination. Really 1mg would probably be enough of a single dose for me a lot of the time but because of the slow onset, perhaps, and impatience about wanting to definitely feel something, I usually end up taking another 1mg within an hour of the first. Later on in the day when I just start feeling a bit worried or stressed again I would take another... or, sometimes, rarely, but sometimes, I'd just think y'know, I know what this feeling is and I don't need another benzo today... and ride it out. But not usually.

It is subtle though for sure, but the anxiolysis for me is profound.

Just on 1200mg gabapentin today, I actually had a bit of that gabapentinoid psychedelia earlier I think, like slight breathing and shifting of objects... but very subtle. I thought that effect was confined to pregabalin so it's interesting that gabapentin can produce it too.

I'm hoping 'pentin doesn't turn out too brainfog-inducing like pregabalin is though. I had major brainfog earlier but that was more to do with not sleeping for a night, having stayed up on a minor speed binge.

Speed isn't even as good without clonazepam. I went through 1g of reasonably quality stuff in like... just over 2 days... the first day I was sensible and just dosed orally but by the second I was snorting which IMO is an inferior way to take speed but it satisfies some other drug-taking desire for me. About 4 am I knew I should go to sleep but as I was pretty much done with the work stuff that had driven me to take speed all day, I kinda just celebrated by allowing myself to finish it up. Waste of drugs and brain health I'm sure.

 

[Xorkoth]

How do you work out at home, out of interest? Am always interested in other people's home workout routines. I bought myself a cheap adjustable bench and some of those blocky adjustable dumbells, y'know the really compact ones, at the beginning of this pandemic and although I haven't used them nearly as much as I thought I would, I dunno if I will bother going to a real gym just to do weights or basic cardio or something even when they all re-open again. I have a pull up bar also so got all the kit I need. Of course you don't need any kit really, I used to use this app MadBarz which has a ton of bodyweight workouts on it for different body parts from 15 minutes to over an hour, I'd recommend it. If I'm being really good and sensible I'll get out my weights shit the night before and workout first thing in the morning... otherwise if I'm feeling less dedicated I'll try to get in at least some kind of short sequence, like I heard this workout idea recently I think originally from David Goggins, do 10 pushups, 5 pullups per minute, until you have to stop. Usually by minute 5 I'm not doing 5 pullups anymore lol but it's a nice cardio/strength shot at the very least.

I am doing planking, crunches (side and straight), and pushups. At first I was doing squats and lunges too, but those hurt the fuck out of my knees. That's what I do for body exercises, then I have some dumbbells, I don't have a bench though it would be useful for rows. Anyway I do imitation rows by bending 90 degrees at the waist and pulling straight up to my sides, and also out from my shoulders. I do dumbbell chest presses, I like those better than a big bar anyway, I feel like they get more muscles. And bicep curls.

For cardio and legs/lower body, I hike or swim. I live in the mountains so there is always elevation change. I try to walk fast for a couple of hours. The swimming days are the best because I never stop swimming for like 5 hours, doesn't matter if you try to swim hard or not, your entire body will be sore the next day.

Jumping rope is really good cardio but it also hurts my knees. My dad and grandpa both had to have knee replacement surgery and I'm really careful to not hurt my knees, they easily feel strained, so I have to do really low impact stuff.

I am doing all of this right now with two 15 pound dumbbells, which is all we have here... it's insanely light, but I'm doing like 100 reps per set and it's doing a great job, in fact maybe even better than low reps/high weight, plus much easier on the joints. When I get home I am going to buy some dumbbells, 2 bars and a bunch of weight plates, so I can change the weight around. For example, normally I'd be doing 70-75 pounds per side for rows. I am thinking I'm going to stick to low weight/high reps, but go with 25-35 pounds, depending on the exercise, instead of 15.

I'm hoping 'pentin doesn't turn out too brainfog-inducing like pregabalin is though. I had major brainfog earlier but that was more to do with not sleeping for a night, having stayed up on a minor speed binge.

Gabapentin is much more functional than pregabalin. At high doses it can be pretty intoxicating and can affect my speech a lot, but at lower dosages it is fantastic for mood and motivation, slightly trippy sometimes, but very functional/clear-headed.

 

[Vastness]

Sounds great man, good for you. Yeah jumping rope is great, when I used to do thai boxing regularly jump rope was always a big part of the cardio routine and my calves were fucking savage lol. I did actually get a bit of achilles tendonitis from it at one point though and had to ease off and do some other kind of warm up like the stationary bike or something. But yeah fair enough, don't wanna fuck with your knees. Swimming sounds great, I live in an urban area although even if I didn't I can't swim well so I probably wouldn't be swimming in a natural body of water... 5 hours, christ haha, to me that sounds fucking mental. The last few years I made a real effort to learn to swim better because I think it's an important skill and I'm a lot more comfortable in water now but have still only swam lengths in a pool... the most helpful thing someone ever said to me about swimming, was a lifeguard who said yknow, if you stop swimming - you won't just sink. Just try stopping and see what happens. And I realised then that you can just chill in the water and the surface and air is never more that a few inches away... that really helped me to relax and get more comfortable in water, whereas before every length was like a frantic scramble from one end to the other.

Do you have any dosage advice about gabapentin? I'm finding it hard to get a handle on how much I should be taking, don't wanna end up with substituting just one GABA addiction for another or getting a dependence but because of the slow onset and the relative subtlety compared to pregabalin the dose is a bit hard to gauge. When I took 600mg yesterday... although probably still on the tail end of my last clonaz... and ended up stacking with a few beers... I can't say for sure if it did much... but 1200mg today, at least after I've slept... actually that was over 5 hours ago now... seems to be a good place.