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⫸STICKY⫷ PD Social Distancing Talk Thread: Swirly Congregation That's 100% Pandemic-Proof

thegreenhand

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Yeah man edibles can be really intense. I do prefer them to smoking/vaping for spiritual exploration but they can punish you if you aren’t ready. Two summers ago I didn’t smoke at all and just did edibles because I wanted to protect my lungs so luckily I’ve learned to navigate that headspace pretty well. Both tend to give me anxiety though so I’ve been avoiding weed for a bit now.

Although personally I find it difficult to integrate anything I experience on an edible trip into my life. I guess you could say they “reveal my anxiety” but I don’t really suffer from anxiety at all when I’m sober. To each their own :)
 

TripSitterNZ

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I was so fucking scared it just kept getting stronger and stronger Craziest OEVS and CEVS took me to quite a dark place i was almost conviced judgement day had just been called upon and now i was dying and been judged for my sins. This way stronger than any mushroom trip i had been on and very very up there with some my strongest LSD trips. No wonder those yogis were eating cannabis tea 2000 years ago and coming up with ideas of shiva and enlightenment. I was meditating through the experince with music while also reciting a prayer to god which kept my mind focused on the love as reality crumbled around me and i was taken through time to dark places of my life. Was very hard to surrender on this trip to the flow since at some points i was seeing super evil visuals and my heart rate was pounding so fast and just intense anxiety.
 

Vastness

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Finally got round to get all the requisite equipment to make DMT vape liquid - DMT included... Thinking am going to give it a try this weekend... very much looking forward to it, haven't done a proper long acting psych in some time now... and I feel this will be a good way to kick things off again, and might also help me shake off some of the last brain scrambling confusion of my inadvisable K-binge last weekend, and stop trying to do dissociatives. But moreso than that obviously... I will finally see what all the fuss is about! :p

That other recent fun thread about DMT which the OP annoyingly deleted reminded me of a book I read a while back which I think some of y'all might find interesting, so I'll just repost it here. It discusses (among) the objective reality of beings encountered within DMT trips - and these realms, as well as the possibility of such - Otherwords: Psychedelics and Exceptional Human Experience, by David Luke, a scientist and also a psychedelic explorer himself. It's a very interesting read and he takes an entirely and perhaps surprisingly neutral perspective about the potential objective reality of the beings one might encounter, with very fair consideration of many different perspectives.

It's been a while since I read it but he refers to The Tibetan Book of the Dead, as well as some kind of Tibetan deity, or being which is the guardian of the underworld, some kind of creature made up of thousands of eyes... I can't remember the name of it now but it seems encountering this being in some kind form or iteration being a common theme to DMT experiences, and his own experience also during one of these experiences was that he had tried to see something - or go someplace - that he very much was not meant to see, or go, and this entity barred his path in no uncertain terms... I'll have to look up the name of this entity and find a picture - but has anyone experienced anything similar? I remember you @TripSitterNZ mentioning the Tibetan Book of the Dead in another thread, I think - perhaps you know what entity it is I am referring to?

The book isn't just about DMT, although it does play a big part in it, he's also done some other very interesting experiments, including one where he tried to evaluate if mescaline could increase his "foresight" or psychic abilities. Amusingly, he was initially going to do this with a traditional shamanic guide but this person balked at the idea of him taking his laptop and other technology to record the experience - so he ended up doing it himself. As a result, the experiment was probably scientifically and methodologically dubious as he didn't have a sober observer - but the general idea was that he had a large volume of pre-selected video clips, organised into categories with certain criteria assigned to them (I believe he had someone else actually prepare the clips first so as not to distort the results too much). He then attempted to predict the videos he was going to watch, note certain features he saw in his mind's eye, and then compare this to the actual video (which would be selected randomly). Interestingly enough, the results indicated an improved precognitive ability compared to a control experiment previously done sober. Not a huge increase - not sure if it's statistically significant, and it surely wouldn't make it into a peer-reviewed scientific journal - but it does make it a very intriguing tale that the results seemed to be positive for psychedelics inducing an apparently supernatural ability to see very vaguely into the future, should one try to use them for this purpose... IMO, people should try these kind of experiments themselves more often, I know it's hard to self-organise to the point of turning your trip into a sterile science experiment, but, damn, props to David Luke for making the effort. It's an interesting read as I say.
 

TripSitterNZ

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That entity vastness is the gate keeper Its a block in the road of the levels of the DMT experince alot of people never get past it. But nick sands has described it in much detail http://psychedelicfrontier.com/just-wee-bit-more-dmt-nick-sand/. It can look like a beast or anything but it blocks the gates to god/heaven once a person manages to conquer and move past the gate by proper identification that it is also you you move into deeper levels of DMT.
 

PYTH

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Do it! Tho I don't make my own I feel so much more in control over re-dosing not having to fuss with a lighter, etc. It does make the huge blastoff hits harder to accomplish, though I guess that also depends on your battery.

I don't want to encourage you to keep doing dissociatives... but if you end up doing some K anyway at some point in the future save some DMT for the ride. You know me, I'm loud about that particular habit.

Finally got round to get all the requisite equipment to make DMT vape liquid - DMT included... Thinking am going to give it a try this weekend... very much looking forward to it, haven't done a proper long acting psych in some time now... and I feel this will be a good way to kick things off again, and might also help me shake off some of the last brain scrambling confusion of my inadvisable K-binge last weekend, and stop trying to do dissociatives. But moreso than that obviously... I will finally see what all the fuss is about! :p
 

Vastness

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Unlucky xammy, will be all the better when you do get them though eh? 😊

Do it! Tho I don't make my own I feel so much more in control over re-dosing not having to fuss with a lighter, etc. It does make the huge blastoff hits harder to accomplish, though I guess that also depends on your battery.
Yeah I have a large enough tank attachment and a powerful enough mod I think. Tbh this is the way I always planned to it, I'm just not that much of a fan of crack pipe style smoking, although I maybe shouldn't knock it since I haven't tried it, but I feel I'd be way more likely to burn it, just way more trouble, now that so much can be vaped in such a more convenient way... why not take advantage of modern technology.

PYTH said:
I don't want to encourage you to keep doing dissociatives... but if you end up doing some K anyway at some point in the future save some DMT for the ride. You know me, I'm loud about that particular habit.
Oh yeah man, I fully intend to do this at some point... 😁 Well maybe not K actually, I just did some recently and again, minor bladder pains, also creeping permatolerance... need to take a proper long break from K now, maybe a year+... not the first time I've said this, but usually does lead to some kind of abstinence, even if last time I planned a year I only made it 6 months.

I'm really hoping I'll manage to get some DCK again soon which is probably my next favourite disso after Ketamine. Last time I used it I got my first ever unignorable bladder symptoms... but in retrospect, I was doing a lot of K then also, so maybe was the straw that broke the camel's back... anyway in a self-loathing drug panic I flushed my gram and have regretted it ever since.

Gonna be experimenting with that 3-MeO-PCE a bit more for sure. Also, again touch wood but hoping to get some O-PCE in the near future which is one I have not tried.

I have to be careful with dissos though really, they don't have good effects on me. Since dabbling in that small amount of K last weekend I've been overdoing it with kratom, etizolam and phenibut since then, over the last 5 days I've taken 11g/Kratom on average, 3mg etizolam, and 1-1.5g phenibut... probably the first time I've really cained both a benzo AND phenibut, equally, usually, I don't combine kratom with a GABAergic... Have not taken them all every day, taken days completely off 1 or the other, for example no phenibut today... have just been trying to avoid feeling shite, but obviously I should stop this now. Don't need to be taking all these things, for sure... I've been doing alright though compared to other times and I'm trying to keep that in mind and not compound any difficulties I'll have rapid tapering with regret and self loathing and whatnot.
 

Buzz Lightbeer

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I have some DCK that I haven't tried yet :) maybe soon but it lasts a long time. It's been months since I last did a dissociative though, and DCK does sound nice.

All this self loathing.. All seems unnecessary from my perspective ;)
 

Vastness

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^ You are 100% right, totally unnecessary! :) I periodically get myself into a kind of negative funk about taking certain things too often though. I know objectively I'll be fine, it's only been a few days really of slightly above optimal use. For sure I'll have enough to feel shitty for a few days when if I decide to taper quickly, no point making it worse before that.

Anyway you're in for a treat with DCK, for sure.
 

PYTH

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@Vastness yeah, I'm also going to need a very long break. The K magic isn't really there anymore, I can kind of cheat it back into a more visual space through a few techniques but it's at the expense of dissociation, win/lose. It's still an excellent launchpad for DMT and colorant for other psychedelics either way, which is probably why I still bother.

One thing that's highly, highly underrated are very light pulls / lower doses of DMT while in a strong visual dissociative space. Riding low doses of DMT is more integrative of the two visual experiences in a really compelling way, hence my fondness for e-vaping DMT. There's sort of a 'flushing' effect at high doses of DMT where it washes out and overwhelms the dissociative's effects - which is still incredibly beautiful and a good way to close a session, as it mostly eliminates the dissociative hangover - but there's so much mileage to travel in the more subtly synergistic spaces.
 

Vastness

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That's very interesting. Just touching on what you mention about "eliminating the dissociative hangover"... that sounds very interesting to me. I'm really kind of dubious about dissociatives as entheogenic drugs even though I concur with the above that most of my really profound experiences have been on a psych and a disso, it's a truly holy combination, and I do get afterglows from these experiences that are lacking from disso-alone binges.

I think I have a kind of romantic/egoic notion about taking certain psychedelics and NOTHING else, like there's value in just embracing the uncertainty and fear, weathering any difficult experiences and coming out psychologically "clean" the other side of it... but maybe that's just an unhelpful bias from the air of elitism that sometimes surrounds pure psychedelics compared to other more purely hedonistic substances. Maybe I should just embrace what I like. I think I apply this pattern to a lot of my life, feeling like I SHOULD just be able to do hard things and emerge a stronger, wiser person, but in actual fact that pressure just results in spending a lot of time procrastinating and indulging my avoidant tendencies. For a few months a year I usually decide to live a really monastic, clean life, muddling along OK, eventually, but doing the bare minimum in a fairly fairly flat mood... before deciding fuck this... and jumping back in to the substance up/down rollercoast. I'm really aware of my own patterns by now but combatting them directly is a work in progress.

Anyway yeah... ketamine. I took 190 days off recently before allowing myself a 2 day binge of just 1 gram. I maybe had a very light hole once - but I had to close my eyes and deliberately focus on the sensations. It wasn't the same as being carried involuntarily through another universe, usually networks of tunnels and expansive rooms, sometimes factories, cityscapes, tunnels, and the like... that was all gone.

40 days later - I tried again, this time with 2 g over 2 days - this time effects were just pathetic. Also my bladder hurt afterwards. It is interesting in recording this stuff though that I'm getting an idea what's am acceptable frequency and what isnt. More than 2g in a 6 week period seems too much now. But 1g in 6 months may be OK physically... but still not long enough for the permatolerance to abate (although, to complicate things, I also used about 0.5g of MXE 105 days prior... so maybe some cross tolerance is involved).

Even before noticeable bladder issues and long term permatolerance though, sometimes I would sniff a huge amount going for a hole and be disappointed - like if I binged for a good few days and saved 250mg for the next weekend (back when I had to actually commute to work pretty often) I'd sometimes find it did fuck all and think damn, better lay off it for a while... but usually the magic would come back. I didn't take any detailed records like I do now - I've become obsessive at logging almost every psychoactive chemical I put into my body - at the time though so I cant say now long it took me to get some of the magic back again.

A few years back now I had myself a planned drug holiday at the beginning of the year where I must have gone through maybe 10g in like a week, and holing every day... no chance I could do that now.

I think probably ketamine is just too weak in potency for me to use anymore. I generally find the more potent dissos not to cause any bladder issues of note when I haven't also been doing ketamine, and when I take care of myself properly. I really hope this DCK does pan out - IMO it's so close, even a deeper hole than ketamine in some ways... I think it might be an improvement on the original molecule.

Had basically no sleep, took 20mg Diazepam and 10mg 3-MeO-PCE, this latter substance is very nice and lucid I must say. I was feeling exhausted and shit before. I also don't feel too manic, this wall of text notwithstanding.

This is dubiously HR but will be of interest to dissonauts who think about combatting long term NMDAR downregulation - should probably post this in the N&PD forum, but:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19433577/
Sarcosine is an endogenous amino acid that is a competitive inhibitor of the type I glycine transporter (GlyT1), an N-methyl-d-aspartate receptor (NMDAR) co-agonist,

Not sure if those papers are the best indicators for whatever point I'm making - but it seems that sarcosine might have somewhat opposite effects on NMDAR than known dissociative NMDA-antagonists, a la, ketamine. Not sure if safe or reasearched, obviously the undisguised objective here is to reverse permatolerance as much as possible. Doesn't do anything for your bladder obviously but yeah dunno where I'm going with this post now but I've been typing it for ages so I guess I'll click that lil Reply button.
 
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TripSitterNZ

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i wish you well into your travels with the DMT. Going to do some next week with my bestfriend.

Once you see the unseen theres no coming back from the change in world view you are forever one of the few who know what lies on the otherside of the greatest experince on earth.
 

Vastness

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Going to postpone my DMT escapades til I've had a good night's sleep. Which I didn't have last night as thinking about this software project I've got to spec, wireframe, test locally, and assign to a developer, took too much modafinil. Took some diazepam to soften my etizolam indulgences the last few days. Hoping to mute my opiate cravings with PCE analogues and nicotine. Seems to be working right now, I can hear that tuning fork song of the universe. My thinking is getting pretty weird and digital in a way that is reminiscent of deeper holes - hopefully it'll stay logical enough that I dont go manic. God I love my staff I have to not be weird while I deal with this shit.
 
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Buzz Lightbeer

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Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh.......... yep. 3-x-PCx is a helluva drug
Hahah yes, all good though. I feel like the differences between 3-MeO-PCE and 3-MeO-PCP are overshot, imo they're almost equally devious. Very fun though, I brought some 3-MeO-PCE doses to every festival I went to last year. Then I spent the days afterwards thinking about all the stupid shit I did/said.
I don't like that all the nuances, taking in all the context, and massively overthinking that I normally love so much get thrown out of the window when on it, and this is something I have with every dissociative I think.
 
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