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☮ Social ☮ PD Social: Cross-dimensional chatter. Now featuring mesphereomeantoliopeme.

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What do you think about Rick Strassman and his theories about DMT? I bought his book "DMT - The Spirit Molecule" (you may probably know about the documentary based on his book and research http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1340425/ I think the documentary is more fascinating in some ways than the book because it gives faces to the subjects). I was actually mainly interested in bying TiHKAL and PiHKAL (but got Strassman's book together with the two for almost free).

I disagree with some of his opinions and conclusions, but it's nevertheless an interesting book. One thing I'm a bit unsure of is Strassmann's theory that e.g. experiences of alien abduction actually are the result of a massive release of DMT from the brain. What could cause such a massive, spontaneous release of DMT from the brain? Are there any scientific articles on how much DMT actually occurs in humans naturally? Is there enough DMT naturally in the human brain to induce a breakthrough experience?

Oh, regarding TiHKAL. I'm aware new tryptamines are being synthesized, however Shulgin hasn't included any synthesis or qualitative comments about 4-Acetoxys. Why? I'm not a chemist nor a pharmacologist but do understand Hydroxy compounds in theory are metabolites of Acetoxys (or was it vice-versa?). The qualitative difference between many Hydroxys and Acetoxys is hardly noticeable, at all. Say, 4-AcO-DPT and 4-HO-DPT. The latter is a bit more potent and has a sligtly faster onset, but qualitatively I cannot distinguish between them otherwise. However, IME there are quite noticeable differences with e.g. 4-AcO-DMT and 4-HO-DMT. The former is more sedating and has a different bodyload than the latter. Similarities, yes, many, but they don't feel the same.

Please don't write a too complicated answer ;) I'm just in the beginning phase of learning about more advanced pharmacology regarding tryptamines (and psychoactive drugs in general). Having studied social sciences (sociology, anthropology and political science) this is really new territory for me.

Edit: On a side note, I would really like to try ETH-LAD at some point in my life. I doubt I'll ever get my hands on it though. I also have some plans for a pharmahuasca trip in the future. The time is not ready for it yet though.
 
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Hey Cyanoide, here's a post I made a while back (slightly modified) regarding Strassman's book, DMT: The Spirit Molecule. Rog may or may not agree. ;)

I enjoyed parts of the book, but overall, I found it disappointing for a number of reasons. First of all, Strassman spends nearly half of the book lamenting the state of current research on psychedelics and the barriers to conducting research. While I'll admit that he battled a lot of adversity and ultimately persevered, I think one chapter would have been more than sufficient to sympathize with the guy. What I found most disconcerting, however, was the creeping sense that his brand of pseudoscience is one reason why psychs aren't gaining credibility as legitimate avenues of future research. This may not be true, but his magical pineal gland hypotheses have certainly not helped to bring psychedelic research back from its marginalized state. He proposes that endogenous DMT plays a pivotal role in mental illness, dreaming, alien-abduction, and near-death experiences...all physiologically improbable. These may have been workable hypotheses if proposed half a century ago. Above all, the hypothesis that forced me to seriously question his reasoning skills is the hypothesis that the soul enters the body at 49 days after conception, which he supports by referencing a parallel between human development of the pineal gland and a statement in the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Maybe Descartes was right after all and the pineal is the seat of the soul?

I won't argue that everything he claims is wrong, but current evidence indicates that (1) DMT is not solely produced in the pineal, (2) DMT is not present at relevant concentrations to exert an effect on 5-HT2A receptors (or any other receptors for that matter), and (3) there is no plausible mechanism by which massive DMT release could occur. There was research done on endogenous DMT and its possible role in psychosis in the 60s, which was ultimately fruitless.

As far as evolutionary history of the pineal gland, there are a few species of lizards that still have a parietal eye (likely the ancestral pineal gland), and it serves a similar function to other pineal glands with its primitive photoreceptor cells. The function appears to be regulation of the sleep/wake cycle as in humans. There are at most a few species of lizard that still have the primitive lens and retina. As evolution progressed, the two primary eyes formed connections with the pineal gland as it took up residence at the base of the forebrain allowing it to lose its photoreceptor functions. So yes, the cells do resemble photoreceptors, and it still regulates cycles, but this is not surprising. MAOI seems to be present there to tightly control the levels of serotonin (it is highly concentrated in the pineal), which allows it to also tightly control melatonin production.
 
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^ Nice analysis. :) I just pretty much lost interest in that book. :\

Never Knows Best said:
I think that is an awfully reductionist premise, and completely untrue. I've been over it before though, so rather than go on about it again, you REALLY can't think of a single instance where a person would act for motivations other than that? That the joys and sorrows that result are incidental and not considered at all in the evaluation? I'd be shocked if you answered no.
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Well, of course, answering this question one way or the other involves a lot of intuition and leaps of faith, because it's quite impossible to scientifically measure something like "motivation". But, I am going to say, after having witnessed my own psychology, seemingly magnified and illuminated by serotonergics... no. It is very difficult for me to imagine otherwise.

I'm assuming, by "the joys and sorrows that result", you are referring to the impact that a decision has on *others*, not oneself. One's *own* joys and sorrows are, of course, the entire basis of human behavior, in my hypothesis. That the consequence of a decision on others is ignored, is true in a sense, but also untrue in another. The joys and sorrows of others have a direct influence on our behavior, through empathy. When we pain others, we pain ourselves, and similarly we are uplifted by others' joys -- especially when we are responsible for those feelings. We have such a strong empathic connection to our fellow human beings, that much behavior can practically be considered selfless. However, our consideration for other people is always mediated through consideration for ourselves, in the end.

Did we actually have this argument before? If so, I don't recall. :D
 
TheAppleCore said:
^ Nice analysis. :) I just pretty much lost interest in that book. :\
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Agreed, I have to thank Dondante for the reply.

Have you watched the documentary from last year? Strassman seemed to have "toned down" some of his hypotheses in the recent documentary though, which is interesting. He openly admits there are many things he cannot give an adequate explanation for regarding spiritual, life-transforming experiences with DMT. At least, it seems like he doesn't have such an "obsession" with the pineal gland in the interviews. He seems less dogmatic now.

Btw does anyone have access to this full study ("Lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) for alcoholism: meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials")? Since I don't study at Uni anymore I don't have access to scientific journals that much. Would really appreciate if anyone could provide me the full study. There was an article on the front page of the largest newspaper in the country about the study (not in a negative manner) a few months ago.
 
Cyanoide said:
Oh, regarding TiHKAL. I'm aware new tryptamines are being synthesized, however Shulgin hasn't included any synthesis or qualitative comments about 4-Acetoxys. Why?
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I think he just hadn't gotten around to making them yet when he published TIHKAL. IIRC, info on the esterified tryptamines and also some other stuff like the DALTs was leaked years after TIHKAL was published.

TIHKAL was kind of cobbled together quickly in an attempt to get all his tryptamine info out into the public domain in the wake of his unfortunate DEA run-in. So there are some omissions, and I think his main goal wasn't to be extremely thorough but just to get the majority of the info down on paper and published. The Shulgin Index, his last book, is much more thorough and I'm pretty sure it contains all of the aforementioned tryptamines that were missing from TIHKAL.
 
sup mah fella bluelighterians; lybraryanz of psychedelic intelectualarianism. a schizm in sense like the body fights the dairy in him. light prizm; an inquery in thought when the lights dimmin. now im ad-libbin. flippin the hourglass draining on easy livin! aint no fucks given but bout the bond between us like the olsons sibbin'

nah im just kidding im just an alcoholic :sus:<3=D<3:sus:
 
Haha, hey ignvs what's up - haven't seen you around for a while it seems?

Anyway just rolling on some >80% molly pretty good here, together with my pal Mr Hedgehog..
This was the second night in a row he was stumbling all over the tens of empty beer bottles I have standing in my
backyard which was pretty funny. Fun was over when he started chewing my electricity wires though. :p

4zu7hx.jpg


So I went to see my GP today and he will help me attract the attention I need to be helped with my benzo shit...
meaning I should be looking at an addiction doc to set up a program with me pretty soon. It's quite possible or even
likely that I need to get myself admitted in a clinic.

Sucks that I have to face the music but I am pretty happy that it's finally being done.
 
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Awesome, Solipsis...good to hear. And also awesome that you have a hedgehog, and call him Mr. Hedgehog...priceless. ;)

Cyanoide said:
Edit: On a side note, I would really like to try ETH-LAD at some point in my life. I doubt I'll ever get my hands on it though. I also have some plans for a pharmahuasca trip in the future. The time is not ready for it yet though.
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I tried AL-LAD, but aside from the shorter duration (LSD can be a bit long for my tastes), I prefer LSD. Of course, it was only one experience, and there's so much intra-trip variability with all psychedelics that my preference could easily be chalked up to having an "off" trip.

p.s. Good to see ya, IGNVS.
 
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TheAppleCore said:
a)I'm assuming, by "the joys and sorrows that result", you are referring to the impact that a decision has on *others*, not oneself.

b)Did we actually have this argument before? If so, I don't recall. :D
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I meant oneself.

b) We might have. I am rather strongly opinionated on this matter, and in general the practice of trying to reduce everything to 0s and 1s (coherent statements of formal logic-y stuff).

A thought of mine, while in the midst of my most reclusive periods I actually get rather enthusiastic about human worth and people not being better than each other and loving the good in'em. But then ya end up having to deal with people then it's it's like...well y'all know. People suck. Hahaha.

Here's some Confucius for everyone (the translation and romanization are pretty old school)
Analects Book XVII said:
1.The Master said, 'I would prefer not speaking.'
2. Tsze-Kung said, 'If you, Master, do not speak, what shall we, your disciples, have to record?'
3. The Master said, 'Does Heaven speak? The four seasons pursue their courses, and all things are continually being produced, but does heaven say anything?'
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Not speaking I have down, well only among persons who I wouldn't be able to share my thoughts with, namely everyone IRL. But to live so that I needn't speak them and they still be communicated to those would know, ah, how far I am from any achievement except the depths to which my baseness will sink.
 
Never Knows Best said:
Hmm, I'm considering trying out rhodiola rosea. Perhaps something like that would be helpful to me.
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rhodiola rosea is the bees knees man. One of my favorite adaptogens, if not the best. I am currently on a break from it, as most herbs must be cycled so they don't lose their effectiveness. Rhodiola just really clicked with me; kills anxiety while still providing edge/energy, builds muscle/increases DNA & RNA as well as creatine in muscles, increases ATP production (ATP is your body's fuel, if your body stopped producing it for 4 seconds you would drop to the ground dead), nips depression in the bud, keeps your heart rate at a healthy level during physical output (prevents 'adrenaline burn'), great analgesic properties (annihilated my back pain, also gave it out for this reason to a friend sometimes), increasing resistance to extreme hot/cold, there's so many benefits it's a little ridiculous. I have heard it helped give the vikings the image they now have for huge physiques.
 
Probably a bit late to wish you the best for your roll now, so hope you had a good time Soli :D

I'm not sure a hedgehog would make the best rolling partner, at least when it comes to cuddle puddles.. 8o

I have three hedgehog detectors in the shape of my dogs, whenever there's a hedgehog they go crazy with excitement and start running around it, pawing at it, barking like crazy. Then me or someone else has to save it before they do it any harm.

Anyway, 9am here, planning to go to the pub in the evening and haven't slept so I better get some sleep now. Hopefully I'll still have time to go drinking, but if not there's always tomorrow.
 
So hedgehogs occur naturally in euro-land (like I know where they're indigenous to)?

cryptix said:
rhodiola
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I was unaware of a number of those benefits, I get back pain fairly frequently so analgesia would be a plus. Any dosing regimen tips, or just stick with the established advice?
 
Never Knows Best said:
So hedgehogs occur naturally in euro-land (like I know where they're indigenous to)?
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Yes, even up here in the North. They do hibernate during winter but they really thrive here.

We Nordics even have a few snake species that occur naturally :D
 
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Never Knows Best said:
I meant oneself.
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Well in that case, yeah, one's own joys and sorrows are heavily considered when making a decision. The goal is to reach the state of "wobbly nothingness" -- wobbles come from joy, as nothingness is compromised by sorrow. Joy and sorrow are the key factors in human motivation, here. And, just to clarify, future joys and sorrows are taken into consideration too -- I'm not saying that people behave myopically, only acting on what makes them feel good *right now*.

I am rather strongly opinionated on this matter, and in general the practice of trying to reduce everything to 0s and 1s (coherent statements of formal logic-y stuff).
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Yes, me too. It's a ridiculous practice, because the world is definitely not binary, nor can it be completely intellectualized. But, I wasn't trying to reduce human psychology to 0's and 1's. I was simply trying to better understand my own mind, and I happened to discover a binary characteristic of human psychology. Just because *everything* doesn't fit into a nice, neat, conceptual framework, doesn't mean that *nothing* does.
 
FECES!

mmmm, intellectualizing intellects of the intellecting intelligencia. mmmm, brains, then feces.

That is all.
 
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