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Covid-19 Outbreak of new SARS-like coronavirus (Covid-19)

Deru

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Trump on people wearing masks, "Maybe they're good maybe they're not so good, but what do you have to lose? You've got nothing to lose."
Sounds like Trump. Same verbiage he used for hydroxychloroquine earlier this year.

Too bad it took him so long to finally say it.
 

Xorkoth

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If he said that about wearing masks, then hot damn, I agree with him about something. You got nothing to lose by wearing one, so why not do it? Throw everyone else a bone. Maybe you'll be helping to keep everyone safe in case you're sick and don't realize it yet, or asymptomatic.
 

DopeM

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Trump on people wearing masks, "Maybe they're good maybe they're not so good, but what do you have to lose? You've got nothing to lose."
Tbf those neck gaiter things actually break your droplets into smaller droplets that hang around the air longer


So if you're one of those ppl you should just go maskless
 

Captain.Heroin

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Tbf those neck gaiter things actually break your droplets into smaller droplets that hang around the air longer


So if you're one of those ppl you should just go maskless
That was just one study and involved the experimenter saying a sentence, obviously not a perfect methodology.
 
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TheLoveBandit

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Getting to the point ...
That was just one study and involved the experimenters saying a sentence, obviously not a perfect methodology.
Agreed, but where is there any better study to date? Any alternate facts to consider?

Someone sent me the Duke research when I started wearing these, and I was pissed. I read the whole damn research paper to find ways to shoot holes in it (no pun intended) as they said it is worse than wearing nothing at all. However, their methods made sense. Their results made sense. My first point to push back on was after reading the details on their 'fleece' gaiter vs the polyester ones I bought....until I researched to find the difference and there isn't. I was getting the image of those inner wool linings old snow caps used to have as their 'fleece' because I'm stupid. The only other pushback I could muster after that was that we can double fold the gaiter easily and it may protect more. Maybe it would, or maybe it just worsens the droplet effect they found. Either way, weak assed point for my to try and make a stand with.

I still wear the mask to piss them off though.
 

Captain.Heroin

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jpgrdnr

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I bought a bunch of bandannas. You have to wear one to go inside now, so whatevs. I mean if the whole argument devolves into you aren't wearing the right mask then jesus dear lord we don't have much hope. LOL
 

TripSitterNZ

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sad to see london real fall for these idiots and become a complete twat with the covid conspiracies he use to host such good episodes and interviews with people about psychedelics and spirituality then he got suckered by david ickes bullshit.
 

LandsUnknown

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Truthfully, I think the media is exaggerating the danger a bit. Yes, the virus is real, it is not a hoax, and people are in fact dying of it. Yes, you should do your best to avoid getting it and possibly spreading it by wearing a mask in public, practicing social distancing whenever possible, and washing your hands frequently. This is true, and yes it could potentially overwhelm hospitals if nothing were done. So, the media is not lying about this at all. However, your chances of surviving if you do catch it are actually quite good. Perhaps even better than I thought previously. Recently, my mom had to go into the hospital for a scheduled surgery for an endocrine issue, and she's 68 years old. I was actually quite worried about her and the possibility of her picking up the virus while at the hospital given her age. However, when she mentioned her concerns to her doctor, the answer she got truly surprised me. He said that even though she's in the high-risk age range, she's in relatively good health overall, which means that it's extremely unlikely that anything serious would happen to her if she caught it. The doctor really did not seem too worried about it at all.

Then, my dad (who is similar to my mom in age and level of overall health) had to go to urgent care for a series of shots after an injury. The doctor who treated him also did and said some very surprising things. He actually took his mask of during the exam and even shook hands with my dad. My dad said something to him about the advice to not shake hands with people, and the doctor just said "well I still do that". If this were a terrifying, rampant, super-deadly disease, there's no way on Earth a medical doctor would even consider doing what this guy did. If my parents visited two separate doctors who were not really seeming anxious about it, then I really don't see any reason to be anxious about it myself. I'm still going to wear a mask, wash my hands often, and keep social distancing whenever possible until the official recommendations say otherwise. It's always better safe than sorry, and I'll do everything I can to avoid getting sick with this. I don't see why the hell anyone wouldn't. However, I'm not going to be scared out of my mind about this like some people are either.

However, the media still seems to be saying "be scared, be very, very scared of this virus". I mostly supported the lockdowns the first time around, but I'm not so sure I would now. Not only am I saying this because of the attitude of these two doctors towards the situation, but it's also the fact that the number of people actually dying from this is actually much less than it was back in March and April. There are far more confirmed cases and fairly extensive community spread, but the actual number of recent deaths is not all that high. Cases are up, but the number of deaths seems to be steadily declining. Some say this is attributed to this latest spike being young people getting infected as opposed to older people, which brings down the death rate. Though, this does not fully explain it. The number of deaths per week among people in their 20s and 30s was substantially higher in March and April than it is now. So, clearly something is getting better, not worse. The media often paints this "things are just getting worse and worse" narrative, which simply is not true. According to doctors, treatments are improving and/or the virus itself is getting less lethal due to mutations.

The media does not talk about this a whole lot, but the natural trajectory of a virus that was originally zoonotic like this one is to become less lethal with time. Because if the "host" dies, the virus dies with it. And there is strong selection pressure to keep a person not only alive but physically able to be out and about spreading it to others. Viruses do often evolve to become increasingly contagious, but they don't typically get increasingly deadly. So, there may be a second wave in terms of cases this fall, but whether there will be a second wave with regard to deaths and how bad would it be is an open question. Since viruses typically mutate over time to become less lethal, more in tune with the host, and able to spread more easily, we could have a second wave with a lot of cases and fewer deaths. Also, doctors have gotten better at treating this. So, this whole "this is terrifying, horrific, and getting so, so much worse" narrative just doesn't hold water IMO. However, this virus is going to be with us forever. Over time, it will evolve to become less lethal. And eventually, it will be with us all the time as simply another human coronavirus that rarely causes anything worse than a cold.

Also, it may not be true that "no one has any level of immunity" to this either. Most likely, some people do have partial immunity from being infected with one or more of the four other coronaviruses in the past. In fact, a recent study found that the immune cells in blood samples from prior to the pandemic (e.g. 2017) found that 40-60 percent of samples did appear to react to the new coronavirus. So, herd immunity might be reached with a combination of a vaccine and infections more easily than has often been believed. And the partial immunity that many individuals appear to have might be reducing the severity. The media does not talk about this stuff too much though. So, the only way to have access to this sort of information is to do your own research. If you get all your info from the news, you'll only see part of the story. And that's bound to be the scariest, most disturbing stuff. Which is a shame, because a lot of people don't do their own research. Many do not even know how to do their own research. So, all that a large portion of the population knows is what the media tells them. And if they aren't painting a full picture, many people won't get to hear the full story.
 
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DopeM

☔ Rain Man ☔
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
3,177
Truthfully, I think the media is exaggerating the danger a bit. Yes, the virus is real, it is not a hoax, and people are in fact dying of it. Yes, you should do your best to avoid getting it and possibly spreading it by wearing a mask in public, practicing social distancing whenever possible, and washing your hands frequently. This is true, and yes it could potentially overwhelm hospitals if nothing were done. So, the media is not lying about this at all. However, your chances of surviving if you do catch it are actually quite good. Perhaps even better than I thought previously. Recently, my mom had to go into the hospital for a scheduled surgery for an endocrine issue, and she's 68 years old. I was actually quite worried about her and the possibility of her picking up the virus while at the hospital given her age. However, when she mentioned her concerns to her doctor, the answer she got truly surprised me. He said that even though she's in the high-risk age range, she's in relatively good health overall, which means that it's extremely unlikely that anything serious would happen to her if she caught it. The doctor really did not seem too worried about it at all.

Then, my dad (who is similar to my mom in age and level of overall health) had to go to urgent care for a series of shots after an injury. The doctor who treated him also did and said some very surprising things. He actually took his mask of during the exam and even shook hands with my dad. My dad said something to him about the advice to not shake hands with people, and the doctor just said "well I still do that". If this were a terrifying, rampant, super-deadly disease, there's no way on Earth a medical doctor would even consider doing what this guy did. If my parents visited two separate doctors who were not really seeming anxious about it, then I really don't see any reason to be anxious about it myself. I'm still going to wear a mask, wash my hands often, and keep social distancing whenever possible until the official recommendations say otherwise. It's always better safe than sorry, and I'll do everything I can to avoid getting sick with this. I don't see why the hell anyone wouldn't. However, I'm not going to be scared out of my mind about this like some people are either.

However, the media still seems to be saying "be scared, be very, very scared of this virus". I mostly supported the lockdowns the first time around, but I'm not so sure I would now. Not only am I saying this because of the attitude of these two doctors towards the situation, but it's also the fact that the number of people actually dying from this is actually much less than it was back in March and April. There are far more confirmed cases and fairly extensive community spread, but the actual number of recent deaths is not all that high. Cases are up, but the number of deaths seems to be steadily declining. Some say this is attributed to this latest spike being young people getting infected as opposed to older people, which brings down the death rate. Though, this does not fully explain it. The number of deaths per week among people in their 20s and 30s was substantially higher in March and April than it is now. So, clearly something is getting better, not worse. The media often paints this "things are just getting worse and worse" narrative, which simply is not true. According to doctors, treatments are improving and/or the virus itself is getting less lethal due to mutations.

The media does not talk about this a whole lot, but the natural trajectory of a virus that was originally zoonotic like this one is to become less lethal with time. Because if the "host" dies, the virus dies with it. And there is strong selection pressure to keep a person not only alive but physically able to be out and about spreading it to others. Viruses do often evolve to become increasingly contagious, but they don't typically get increasingly deadly. So, there may be a second wave in terms of cases this fall, but whether there will be a second wave with regard to deaths and how bad would it be is an open question. Since viruses typically mutate over time to become less lethal, more in tune with the host, and able to spread more easily, we could have a second wave with a lot of cases and fewer deaths. Also, doctors have gotten better at treating this. So, this whole "this is terrifying, horrific, and getting so, so much worse" narrative just doesn't hold water IMO. However, this virus is going to be with us forever. Over time, it will evolve to become less lethal. And eventually, it will be with us all the time as simply another human coronavirus that rarely causes anything worse than a cold.

Also, it may not be true that "no one has any level of immunity" to this either. Most likely, some people do have partial immunity from being infected with one or more of the four other coronaviruses in the past. In fact, a recent study found that the immune cells in blood samples from prior to the pandemic (e.g. 2017) found that 40-60 percent of samples did appear to react to the new coronavirus. So, herd immunity might be reached with a combination of a vaccine and infections more easily than has often been believed. And the partial immunity that many individuals appear to have might be reducing the severity. The media does not talk about this stuff too much though. So, the only way to have access to this sort of information is to do your own research. If you get all your info from the news, you'll only see part of the story. And that's bound to be the scariest, most disturbing stuff. Which is a shame, because a lot of people don't do their own research. Many do not even know how to do their own research. So, all that a large portion of the population knows is what the media tells them. And if they aren't painting a full picture, many people won't get to hear the full story.
Well said and mirrors some of my own experience with doctors around here
 

DopeM

☔ Rain Man ☔
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Messages
3,177
Your article is suspiciously lacking any evidence of this and has at least three misspellings which lead me to look for further information.

I found that the u.s actually provided a $600,000 grant through the NIH to a Chinese virologist studying how these viruses spread.

Here is what real reporting looks like...


The doctor was getting a total of 3.1 million dollars of which ~599k was US funded...



Now, I'm not saying that China or the USA or the internet search engines are all 100% transparent (heck I'm not even saying they're 5%), but without some more solid facts of wait to pass any sort of judgment...
 
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TheLoveBandit

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Getting to the point ...
No replies in this thread in nigh a week? Are we cured? Nay, politics (and violence) have stolen the headlines, but the virus remains.

Has anyone noticed (or heard it touched on at all by MSM) that in the US the number of cases has been in steady decline since mid-July? Or that deaths peaked on their second mini-wave about 2w ago. Things are getting better here. You wouldn't know it from the news, but they are.
 

DopeM

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My area is on the rise in % of tests coming back slightly from just under 1% to around 2% rn, but that's pretty decent iirc.

After traveling the country all of July, I met exactly one person who has had it.

Granted I wasn't as outgoing as I normally would be on a road trip but it was kind of odd to not run into at least a couple others who have had it.

I had the nose test done to go back to work and was neg. They shove that thing up there good. It's like when you're rly drunk and stuck the straw wayyyy too far up there
 
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