origins...

peaked

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
711
almost pharm_friendly, cept thats at the north pole not the south ;) Alaska has US laws doesnt it ? From what I could google about the south, the only laws seemed to be about mining and polution.
 
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mr king

Bluelighter
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Nov 11, 2004
Messages
165
peaked said:
Are there any drugs laws at the south pole ?
NO just a brown paper bag to mr & mrs claws every now and then
 

nanobrain

Bluelighter
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hyperlocal
MDMA is a global, highly organised and still lucrative business.

as such, there exist different, functionally and geographically dispersed channels for precursors, manufacture, end user forms production and distribution.

the Micrograms are very useful for specific info.
 

Cheshire Cat ^..^

Bluelighter
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RU -> IL -> AU (Perth)
In addition to European trafficking groups, DEA reporting demonstrates the involvement of Israeli criminal organizations in Ecstasy smuggling. There are indications that some of these smuggling groups include individuals of Russian or Georgian descent, who hold Israeli citizenship. The Israeli criminals primarily are involved in the transportation of MDMA to consumer markets outside Europe, relying on “producer groups” for the supply of Ecstasy.8 The DEA’s BCO reports clearly established links to Israeli groups in 12 of the 39 Ecstasy cases initiated by the BCO between 1998 and 2000.

Belgium’s role as a major center in the international diamond trade often is exploited by the Israeli drug trafficking groups. These traffickers often take advantage of their ethnic connections within the diamond-trading community in an effort to avoid detection by law enforcement officials. The connections to the diamond industry also provide Israeli traffickers with a well-established infrastructure in which to operate. In addition, custom-made luggage designed for transporting diamonds is readily available in Antwerp. This luggage is well-suited for use by drug traffickers smuggling Ecstasy.

Israeli traffickers generally are young, well-educated, and multilingual, often with Hebrew/Yiddish, English, and Russian language ability. The groups are highly adaptable and mobile, maintaining contacts throughout Europe and internationally. They use a variety of technologies for communication purposes.
%) %) Kind of makes even proud a bit, haha.
 

peaked

Bluelighter
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Messages
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Theoretically speaking, if there aren't any laws pertaining to drugs in antarctica, couldn't a sydicate decided to setup a "super lab" of sorts there that produced every major drug without being open to persecution? Or even on a giant ship in international waters ...

Surely I must be missing something. Else a multi billion dollar syndicate would have done it already.
 

Pleonastic

Bluelighter
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The problem is that the clientel are all miles away in countries with laws and borders. You'd never be able to ship your product to your customers. Not only that, but Antartica is basically split up into territories, which I assume are rulled by the same laws as the countries that own them.

It'd be a hell of a party for the people based at Mawson though... ;)
 

Hater

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Messages
449
i think this thread should be retitled "lets help the cops shutdown the international drug trade by doing their job for them" this is a topic u can research urself and tell ur friends about not very sensible for discussion you could post an idea that although u may find witty and thoughtful u could have just given cops an angle theyve never looked at before its the kind of question i would have posted with a request that the answer be sent by pm
 

Pleonastic

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The cops have teams of people spending their entire working weeks trying to find drug dealers. Anything we say here will have occured to them loooooong ago.

As I said earlier, anyone that actually knows what they're talking about will also know that they should shut the fuck up about it. Everyone else is just guessing. :)
 

Hater

Bluelighter
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449
u'd be surprised what drugs can do to the mind and how stupid the police can be especially the smart ones
 

phase_dancer

Bluelight Crew
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I very highly doubt MDMA is ever manafactured in Australia due to the rarity of Isosaffrole and all the other chemicals that are involved in the very complex synthesis

Safrole, isosafrole and piperonal are available in Australia. Anyone with an account with a chemical supply company can purchase them - at present- without even signing an EUD, and unless the buyer is already under investigation it's unlikely any followup checks will occur. Piperonal is used throughout the fragrance and flavours industry. The inexpensive price/ kg would startle most people, including the fact that for older account holders, no paper work is required. The amounts purchased nationwide are staggering, particularly if one is to think that even a small amount of that may be diverted to producing MDMA. Some might argue that piperonal starting routes require awkward to obtain reactants, but these can also be produced relatively easily from methods found throughout chemical (non-drug related) literature. It's just chemistry afterall. No real mystery if you know the science.

As for a typical MDMA synthesis being complex - far from it. Sure there's more chemistry involved than for the relatively simple procedures involved in pseudo --> meth reduction, but generally speaking, techniques are simple for most routes.

Another point ticktock is also wrong on is the other chemicals bit. Several routes exist for producing MDMA from completely over the counter chemicals. Even safrole is obtainable, as being one of the most common alkenes found in nature, it can be extracted from several indigenous and xenotype plants and trees. Some of these have been well exploited as they are frequently mentioned in scientific, and drug discussion literature.

The biggest problem with MDMA IMO is that, being a simple ring substituted propyl amine, it's almost too easy for crooks, wannabees, or even curious tinkerers to manufacture. To be as inconspicuous as possible, this means "tricky to get" chemicals would be synthesised from other over the counter (OTC) chemicals e.g. methylamine from hexamine sold as camping fuel tablets. In many cases, techniques involved in reactant-reagent manufacture are as simple as those required for synthesising the drug itself.

What all this means if one is to look at it logically, is that because a market for MDMA is increasing while imports restrictions/detection are preventing a higher percentage of imported pills from reaching that market, more and more crime syndicates will be prepared to make their own locally. MDMA labs have been busted in Australia, but because of the likely fragmenting of larger syndicates, it also means law enforcement will probably have more trouble tracking down smaller producers. One thing is for sure in my books though; If the market is not reduced at a proportional rate to supply interception, there will still be enough money in it for crime bosses to turn to local production. I'd bet my eye teeth it's already happening.

For the end user, with such a trend, the potential troubles relating to impurities would be increased substantially. IMO increases in local production are also likely to ultimately lead to an increase in the availability of other drugs such as PMA and other ring substituted amphetamines. The reason is simply that once a setup exists for making MDMA via an OTC route, in many instances this can also be applied to other aldehydes and alkene starting materials, several of which are not regulated in the slightest - and would be almost impossible to do so because these are employed in food and flavouring industries where tons of the chemicals are used, and where waste on a large scale is inevitable. Seen in this light, one can realise that opportunity for diversion is enormous.

Whatever your opinions on MDMA and it's potential for harm, there are new dangers awaiting users, not related to the toxicity of MDMA itself, but to the host of side reaction products, and contaminants resulting from multi step synthesis using less than pure precursors, starting materials and reagents manufactured from OTC chemicals. Combine this with the relative ease of switching to another starting material should safrole etc, become unavailable and there's big potential for unprecedented health problems. The list ticktock posted on another thread to highlight these impurities is far from complete particularly when considering those produced by various OTC routes commonly employed in production of MDMA. However, while some may be very toxic, and potential exists for these to be present in sufficient quantities have a nasty outcome, to be fair, some of these chemicals have actually been found to be protective to the liver when exposed to the cholestasis causing toxin, carbon tetrachloride.

Ref:
Protective effects of sesamol and its related compounds on carbon tetrachloride induced liver injury in rats; Ohta S, Suzuki M, Sato N, Kamogawa A, Shinoda M.; Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Hoshi University, Tokyo, Japan.



As a final note. Despite the difficulties police face if local OTC production should become the norm, I disagree completely with Haters above statement. In fact I'd suggest, even if you're just a user, that you think about a line from Layercake which I mentioned a few months ago in a thread discussing the intelligence of police: Know and respect your enemy. It is only very, very stupid people who think the law is stupid
 

peaked

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
711
True Pleo, I guess I was just assuming that if people can manage to ship drugs from one country to another, they'd be able to manage it from any country. But now that I think about it for this case, since theres probably very few ships that travel to and from antarctica, they would surely attrach a lot more attention than a ship from somewhere else that had a much greater amount of traffic.

Oh, and p_d, fantastic post as usual! All I wanted to know and more .. it's always appreciated :)
 

fcuking_in_heaven

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
163
"As a final note. Despite the difficulties police face if local OTC production should become the norm, I disagree completely with Haters above statement. In fact I'd suggest, even if you're just a user, that you think about a line from Layercake which I mentioned a few months ago in a thread discussing the intelligence of police: Know and respect your enemy. It is only very, very stupid people who think the law is stupid"

I do think the law is stupid but i follow it (loosely) because we are forced to. The law is meant to represent the morals of the majority in society. That means minorities are singled out every day because what they see as being morally right is illegal. Just because the law is the law doesnt mean we have to respect it.

This rant is basically because i think that it is complete bullshit that a rapist/murderer/arsonist can be let out of prison in a matter of years and be deemed fit to live in our society. A man can rip investors off by millions of dollars yet be given a virtual slap on the wrist, Vizard anyone? In general i think some of our current laws are a complete crock of shit.

fcuk in heaven
 

phase_dancer

Bluelight Crew
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Oops 8(

What I should have explained was the context in which that last statement was said. When referring to the Law in the movie, Daniel Craig was actually referring to the police themselves rather than to the law in general.

BTW fcuking_in_heaven, OT but as much as Vizard's escape of justice was hard to swallow, even harder are the rumoured reports I've heard regarding just who he has in his back pocket....it's just another case of the ol' nothing is at it seems :\
 

turkish

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 13, 2004
Messages
172
LOL @ hater.. the cops arent a pack of clueless morons, they do have intelligence and they have a fuckin shitload of people more than happy to give them information to keep theirselves out of jail, they know more than you think and i reallly doubt they come to bluelight to find out whats goin on in the streets
 

goodfellas

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 29, 2004
Messages
98
i could say that MDMA originates from anywhere in the world, where the appropriate chemicals, knowledge, and chemistry equipment is available. There is nothing stopping anyone from starting a MDMA lab if they are serious and want to start manufacture. On a professional mass production scale, You would say USA is where the most MDMA is produced as this is where it originated recreationally and has the population with the most demand. China supplies the world with the majority of the precursors. Netherlands has seen to be a big player in mass production as well as Poland,Germany,Israel,Russia and Spain.
You cannot go off presses or logos to tell the origin of a pill
because the mass producers would be running alot of different sized presses, logos,etc so distribution channels are harder for FEDS to track. Mass producers alledgedly press a number of different batches to get the dealers started and send Pure MDMA and the pressing stamps. Alot of pills are pressed in Australia but the majority of HIGH QUALITY MDMA on LARGE SCALE distribution is manufactured in the above stated countries. Not saying there aren't any in Australia as crime syndicates will start operations here to take advantage of the high demand/ profit that is growing rapidly. The high profits would make any greedy person with big enough balls want to go back to school and study Chemistry and start a lab. Though most people are probably trained by the manufacturers.
 

beepbeep

Greenlighter
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Messages
10
Some interesting reading on that DEA site,

http://www.dea.gov/pubs/intel/04009/index.html

Drug Intelligence Brief AUSTRALIA 2003

Processing
Synthetic Drugs
There also have been several large-scale 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), a.k.a. Ecstasy, laboratory seizures in the Sydney and Melbourne metropolitan areas. The chemicals seized at these MDMA laboratories originated from locations throughout Southeast Asia. Australian law enforcement and customs officials are also seizing increasing amounts of sassafras oil being smuggled through various ports-of-entry, such as Sydney and Melbourne. Sassafras oil produces safrole, which can be used as a precursor chemical in the manufacture of MDMA.

Western Europe is the primary source for Ecstasy that is smuggled into Australia. Ecstasy is smuggled into Australia by drug couriers using the body carry method. The United Kingdom, Malaysia, and Indonesia are the most common embarkation points for Ecstasy entering Australia. Airfreight and maritime containerized cargo are frequently used for larger shipments of Ecstasy.
 
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