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Opioids Opiates to get off kratom addiction???

J

Jakiba

Greenlighter
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
6
Ok before i start i know this sounds crazy but i know my body and how determined I am to be done with kratom. I know with all my heart i wont get addicted to opiates again. I just need to know if this works. So I've done this before. But in reverse order. But kratom addiction for me has been way worse than opiates were. I have been taking to much everyday around 6-9 tablespoons. Which I believe is 2 or 3 ounces. I was wondering if taking opiates such as hydrocodone, oxycodone, etc for maybe a week with zero kratom or extremely little would help get me off it despite maybe slight mood changes after that week with withdrawls but very minor. Doing this id think would get me through the worst of the withdrawals. Me taking opiates for maximum a week would not get me addicted physically. I need to get off kratom and have not been successful when looking this thought I have online for answers. So in RECAP can I take opiates for kratom withdrawl. I take almost 2 or 3 ounces a day everyday I need to be done with kratom. Thank you for yalls time. If anyone would rather message me or just reply here that's fine. I really would appreciate answers. Thanks again
 
The kratom and the opiates all work on the same receptor. So when you stop the kratom then switch to an opiate, you haven't really achieved anything. Then when you stop the opiate a week or two later you are still going to experience pretty strong withdrawals.

You'd likely be better off tapering down low on the kratom then stopping. Or you can switch to another opiate but at low doses then taper that even lower and then stop. The taper would minimize the withdrawals you will experience and you can then manage those lighter withdrawals pretty well with helper meds like gabapentin/pregabalin, clonidine, loperamide, benzos, etc. For some people kratom is easy to taper, but I've noticed this is not universal - some people just can't seem to do it, so this approach may not be for you but it's likely the best way to minimize withdrawals in your case. Unfortunately there aren't really any 'get out of jail free' cards, your gonna have to experience some discomfort but with a proper taper then helper meds, it can be much much easier.
 
I gotta tell ya man, I had this philosophy and tried it many times. It doesn't work. While kratom and opiates are miles apart in terms of effects, they unfortunately overlap enough on a Venn diagram that you can't really use one to get off the other without paying the piper at some point.

I used kratom to get off h. Got down to 8g a day pretty quickly, maintained that for months. Jumped and only took two 50mg tramadols a day for a week straight. Then tried to jump. It wasn't fun. Similarly, when getting off h, I tried to jump off the kratom after 5 days. Again, not fun. And there's been other times.

You're welcome to give it a shot, but honestly, you gotta go through *it* at some point. And honestly, I hated getting off kratom. Even 8g a day. It was worse than I thought it would be. Different than opiate withdrawal. And honestly, worse in some ways. More lingering anxiety that was plateau'd longer. Less obvious progression as days went on. Day 3 was the same as day 7.

I think the best approach is to use something different each day. Kratom for ONE day. A benzo for ONE day. Baclofen for ONE day. Gabapentin for ONE day. Clonidine is supposed to help, I haven't had access to it. Then cycle through the aforementioned items. Like I said, either way, you're gonna pay the piper eventually.
 
It works. I got off kratom by using codeine for a few days. Of course I still had to go through withdrawal after getting off the codeine but it was mostly PAWS at that time, the codeine got me through the acute kratom withdrawal that was so difficult for me.
 
Kratom is not an opiate. It mimics an opiate. Don't get a worse habit. You really don't want an opiate addiction
 
tarman said:
I gotta tell ya man, I had this philosophy and tried it many times. It doesn't work. While kratom and opiates are miles apart in terms of effects, they unfortunately overlap enough on a Venn diagram that you can't really use one to get off the other without paying the piper at some point.

I used kratom to get off h. Got down to 8g a day pretty quickly, maintained that for months. Jumped and only took two 50mg tramadols a day for a week straight. Then tried to jump. It wasn't fun. Similarly, when getting off h, I tried to jump off the kratom after 5 days. Again, not fun. And there's been other times.

You're welcome to give it a shot, but honestly, you gotta go through *it* at some point. And honestly, I hated getting off kratom. Even 8g a day. It was worse than I thought it would be. Different than opiate withdrawal. And honestly, worse in some ways. More lingering anxiety that was plateau'd longer. Less obvious progression as days went on. Day 3 was the same as day 7.

I think the best approach is to use something different each day. Kratom for ONE day. A benzo for ONE day. Baclofen for ONE day. Gabapentin for ONE day. Clonidine is supposed to help, I haven't had access to it. Then cycle through the aforementioned items. Like I said, either way, you're gonna pay the piper eventually.
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That's great advice
 
I've been doing a slow taper to get my kratom doses out of the ridiculously high range over the last few weeks and have gotten down to around 40g a day from upwards of 70g a day. If you stick to a slow taper, the withdrawal consists of mainly a little restlessness and a runny nose. Black seed oil is surprisingly effective at attenuating the restlessness. Cycling for a few hours in the afternoon when I feel some restlessness is also beneficial.

I was dosing 25g in the morning, 20g in the afternoon, and 25-30g at night. I started removing a single gram a day from one of my doses and didn't have any significant discomfort until I cut the afternoon dose out entirely. That's when I tried the black seed oil and found it very useful. I'm now dosing 15g in the morning and 25g at night.

I plan to continue this taper until I can get to the point that I don't need kratom daily. As my doses get smaller, I'll probably start removing smaller amounts at a time, maybe .5g a day from one of my doses or removing 1g from a dose every other day to continue experiencing the minimum possible discomfort while still working steadily on my goal of overcoming this addiction. I haven't gotten all the way to my goal yet, so I can't say for certain that this regimen will work, but so far, so good.

Keep us posted on your progress, I'm always looking for anything that could make this process easier!
 
Just out of interest does bupe work with kratom? do not take that as advaice to try it as I don't know. It's just a question.
 
MDPV_Psychosis said:
The kratom and the opiates all work on the same receptor. So when you stop the kratom then switch to an opiate, you haven't really achieved anything. Then when you stop the opiate a week or two later you are still going to experience pretty strong withdrawals.
Click to expand...

If opiates wouldn't work for Kratom withdrawal, how come the reverse is used? Presumably either would work, but going from Kratom to opiates would be a bigger risk for greater use [cost, extent of withdrawal, and others].
 
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ive cut my kratom dose in half in the past 4 days with no discomfort... i went from 100g a day down to 50... i ate a lot of gabapentin though... like 20x 300mg pills a day. then i ran out and found myself upping the kratom back to 8g doses... only one day though... 60 more 300x gabas coming today... if i can repeat the process i feel i should be able to jump off the kratom, or maybe just dose 5g 3x daily. thatd be fine with me. problem is i noticed the gaba working less and less each day of course. added 300mg pregabalin the third day and cant get any more of that stuff. or any more gaba after this... i'm optimistic i can keep it to 5g doses now, but not dosing 10x a day will be the hard part...
 
Was just thinking what if you took some naltrexone on kratom what would happen and they are offering that sleep detox stuff. This stuff must be hard to get off if people are paying for that.

Just taper. I wonder what a tylenol 4 would do. But have heard codeine withdrawal is hell too.

Typical natural things like weed, valerian root, etc will help.

Fuck gabapentin and benzos also. You are jumping waaay deeper with those than even opiates.
 
TheInvisibleStoner said:
Was just thinking what if you took some naltrexone on kratom what would happen and they are offering that sleep detox stuff. This stuff must be hard to get off if people are paying for that.

Just taper. I wonder what a tylenol 4 would do. But have heard codeine withdrawal is hell too.

Typical natural things like weed, valerian root, etc will help.

Fuck gabapentin and benzos also. You are jumping waaay deeper with those than even opiates.
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I think if Kratom is still in your system, and if you are dependent on it, it will cause immediate withdrawal because it blocks all access to the receptors. In those ultra rapid detox sessions where you are put under general anesthesia and then given naltrexone (and I think also clonidine) in high doses so your body downregulates those receptors really fast. It's so intense hell that you have to be put to sleep for a while :p. Not sure if you want to take that stuff while dependent on any opiate.

I just tapered down from an opiate (oxy and heroin) dependency using a 3 week suboxone taper (from 5 to 0.20mg sub) and now 5 days without suboxone. My energy levels are so low that Kratom is the only thing that helps in case of sheer need (when I need to work) for some energy, but I avoid it because it's not really giving those receptors the change to recover.

Any opioid you take will help, but not to recover. I also suspect that Kratom works on different receptors (heroin & oxy work mainly on mu receptor, kratom on the others in low dosages iirc)
 
d896629 said:
If opiates wouldn't work for Kratom withdrawal, how come the reverse is used?
Click to expand...
Kratom is weaker at the mu opioid receptor so people basically end up splitting a withdrawal into two segments: one when they get on the kratom and one when they get off.

The thing about kratom is that it has activity at adrenergic receptors and delta opioid receptors, so substitution will cause a slightly different set of discontinuation symptoms.
 
Skorpio said:
Kratom is weaker at the mu opioid receptor so people basically end up splitting a withdrawal into two segments: one when they get on the kratom and one when they get off.

The thing about kratom is that it has activity at adrenergic receptors and delta opioid receptors, so substitution will cause a slightly different set of discontinuation symptoms.
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I have been using kratom the last 3 days in moderate amounts since I quit suboxone 5 days ago, it provides complete relief of lethargy. I guess this will prolong my symptoms due to the same sort receptor level agitation? Or is it safe to use for say a week to at least have the energie to start up?
 
I think theres some confusion here. Kratom is an opioid (or contains an opioid), it acts on your opioid receptors just like any other opiate/opioid.
For clarity, an opiate is an opioid based on the morphinan structure or derived from opium, and opioid is any chemical which acts on the opioid receptors. So while all opiates are opioids, not all opioids are opiates. Kratom is definitely and opioid, just like oxy, or fent. Just no where near as potent. However, it still comes with the same potential for addiction and withdrawals.
 
MDPV_Psychosis said:
The kratom and the opiates all work on the same receptor. So when you stop the kratom then switch to an opiate, you haven't really achieved anything. Then when you stop the opiate a week or two later you are still going to experience pretty strong withdrawals.

You'd likely be better off tapering down low on the kratom then stopping. Or you can switch to another opiate but at low doses then taper that even lower and then stop. The taper would minimize the withdrawals you will experience and you can then manage those lighter withdrawals pretty well with helper meds like gabapentin/pregabalin, clonidine, loperamide, benzos, etc. For some people kratom is easy to taper, but I've noticed this is not universal - some people just can't seem to do it, so this approach may not be for you but it's likely the best way to minimize withdrawals in your case. Unfortunately there aren't really any 'get out of jail free' cards, your gonna have to experience some discomfort but with a proper taper then helper meds, it can be much much easier.
Click to expand...

I partially agree. I remember one time I stopped dosing kratom entirely and switched to painkillers for a couple of days. I felt obscenely horrible and couldn't figure it out until I dosed kratom and felt magically normal again. Kratom seems to have its own withdrawal or at least something unique about its composition that causes me to withdraw even on other opiate-like things.

Kicking kratom is harder than people think. It's really god damn hard. I think your best bet would be to slowly taper off kratom for as long as you possibly can. Introducing different opioids seems like a plan for increasing the addiction imo. I've used suboxone to get off kratom before in the past. Several people said it was a terrible idea and I understand why they said that, but no matter what it's going to feel like you're trapped on kratom. Once I got off suboxone the depression from kratom was really severe so I just started redosing again. Tapering down is how most people have done it and I think it's easier to do so then swapping substances.
 
tarman said:
I gotta tell ya man, I had this philosophy and tried it many times. It doesn't work.
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It's all subconscious psychology made up by your brain. I like how you pointed it's a "philosophy". I've had this also.

It's a false philosophy and not a good way to get off opiates. At some point you just need to quit. Going back to harder drugs is just mental gymnastics to justify a sub-conscious desire. It's not your fault, your brain is programmed to want that dopamine. You need to stay strong. You got this brother.
 
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