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Opioids Opiate taper help.

Just want to give a quick update. I have managed to drop down to 30mg per day over the last week or so absolutely painless so far.


Thanks to all you guys that helped me sort the taper out. I know it is not over yet but I am just glad to be making progress.
 
Glad to hear you're making progress - it's not an easy thing to do on your own, and UK docs are pretty fucking useless, for the most part. I knew one addiction specialist shrink who I actually respected - he'd done his share of drugs in his youth, never looked down on addicts, and believes, passionately, in harm minimisation, maintenance and tapers. But with the way things are going under the current government - restricting methadone, refusing to prescribe subs for cold financial reasons, telling benzo addicts to fuck off and 'get them on the street', et cetera - he threw up his arms in disgust and decided to change careers.

But like I posted last week you're on a low enough dose that maintenance would be a bad idea, unless you can find a doc (there are some) who'd prescribe dihydrocodeine for a taper. It's not that hard to get hold of, anyway, if you take a look around that there interweb thingy the kids love, but there's obviously a risk involved. Time-release dhc tablets would probably be ideal, as a step down, but though some European countries use them as a methadone alternative, even for H-using needle freaks, that hasn't really taken off as a therapy here.

I don't think it's breaking sourcing rules to point out that codeine linctus is available at pharmacist's discretion in the UK as a cough linctus: very few chemists will sell it in shops, but the interweb's a different story. Half a 200ml bottle's roughly equivalent to 30 mgs of morph, so it can be useful as you titrate down your dose. Only drawback is that codeine has a shorter half-life, though first generation antihistamines like diphenhydramine and promethazine keep it active for a while longer. The linctus might be useful when you get your dose a little lower, and it has the advantage of being both legal and dirt cheap. But I honestly wouldn't bother even trying to buy it over the counter - unless you're a sixty-ish woman with a hacking cough, hardly any pharmacists will sell it. Not that I've ever asked: I blush easily, and the thought of some smug chemist turning suspicious eyes on me and thinking 'junkie scum' is too embarassing to bother with.

If you have money to burn, I'd give serious thought to the Kratom option - there's lots of garbage on the market, but good premium bali can ease withdrawal to a surprising extent, and it's easy to taper down doses. But unless you have a very strong stomach, it generally requires a capsule-filling gizmo to use effectively: it's the second foulest-tasting substance I've encountered, after San Pedro cactus, and with any kind of opiate tolerance, you need piles of the stuff to get an effect, since the stronger extracts vanished. Maybe order a small batch and see if it works for you - they prescribe it as a kind of 'herbal methadone' to H and opium addicts in some Southeast Asian countries, though it's otherwise illegal in the region.

Final thing: loperamide takes 2-3 hours to take effect, so if you go down that route, dose say 17-20 hours after your last bit of morph. It's difficult to suggest dosages, but maybe start with 10mgs or so, and see how much relief it brings. It's pretty damn good at suppressing withdrawal symptoms, but it seems, from the many heated loperamide threads on these forums, that very few people experience any kind of pleasurable or painkilling effect from it, even at massive doses, so it doesn't help with the psychological aspect of addiction or cravings. And it can cause pretty nasty nausea, so start small and see if it works for you.

Anyway, I've said it before, so I'll say it again: good luck, you're doing well. Better than me: I fucked up my benzo taper and have been indulging in morph, codeine and dhc all week, after discovering a forgotten stash (shows how out of it I was last year, before I tapered: I've hardly ever lost and found drugs in a 25-year career of abuse. So I'll probably be reaching for the loperamide myself tomorrow. Luckily, I brought a shitload over from the US last year, and it should see me through the after effects of a mild week-long binge. Forgive the babbling: I finished off my dhc this morning. Barely touched the stuff for a year, but my tolerance doesn't seem to have gone down at all. It's funny - I chipped H on and off in my late teens and a few times since, but never found it that compelling, so it was easy to avoid daily use and addiction. It's the milder opiates that sank their teeth into me, and I suspect I'll always go back to them now and again. Better than sex - well, most sex, in my experience - and every bit as problematic in the aftermath.
 
sorry man, I missed your post until now.

Finally off the morphine, got down to 10mg then cold turkey. Withdrawals are much easier today (day 3) I have learnt my lesson now. I am never even going to think about taking opiates again.

thanks for all the help.
 
congrats man! sorry im a bit late, just found this thread! I'm goin through about the same exact thing...60mgs a day for about 5 months, and i've cut down to 15mgs twice a day, but every morning...maaaan. Can't wait to go out and get some, was it immodium ad? The shits in the morning...every day for the last month are the worssst. Anal leakage all day long wtf! Don't know how i got myself into this one, but reading all the posts and seeing you get out of it just makes me want to keep going even more. So side question, after an opiate addiction, do you guys think its possible to go back to being a "chipper", without getting sucked in again? Different for everybody? Impossible??
 
. So side question, after an opiate addiction, do you guys think its possible to go back to being a "chipper", without getting sucked in again? Different for everybody? Impossible??
I would say for most people it's extremely hard, and that it's really not worth the risk of finding out ;-)
 
Get yourself in to see a doctor and request a taper program so, that your withdrawal can at the least, be supervised should anything go wrong and so, that you have treatment options available to you as needed (MMT, Suboxone/Subutex, Naloxone, access to kick-kit scripts like Naproxen, Seroquel, Trazadone, Clonidine, Valium). The key is to make the taper as gradual as possible, the longer it takes the less severe your symtoms will be (studies have shown that the longer your taper is, the better chance you have of evading relapse).

To clarify the most common treatments available, very breifly:

MMT: Methadone (synthetic opiod) Maintenence, (most doctors reccommend starting with a low-dose of methadone (15ml-30ml)
Suboxone: 4 parts Buprenorphine (partial opiate agonist), 1 part Naloxone (opiate antagonist), (starting from 2mg-8mg (over the course of the day when Methadone fails / is not tolerated well)
Subutex: Buprenorphine Hydrochloride (alternative to Subutex when Naloxone brings about discomfort (rarely prescribed / difficult to acquire for some for it's abuse potential is well-known), will generally start anywhere from 0.4mg to 2mg
Naloxone: Opiate antagonist (blocks the action of opiates and in turn, the high), starts from 0.5mg to 2mg

and the most common scripts written for opiate addicts (also known as kick-kit rx's):

Naproxen: NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug) used to treat the pain symptoms that may arise when withdrawing from opiates
Seroquel / Trazadone: Sleep aid's (sedative properties) with mild anti-anxiety and moderate anti-depressive properties
Clonidine: Sympatholytic / antiadrenergic (opposes SNS stimulation) used to treat high-blood pressure, tachycardia (quickened HR), restless legs and restlessness and muscle spasms/twitching to some degree
Valium / other Benzo's (Atvian is the most common): Benzodiazepenes of any kind generally are used to treat anxiety and moderate depressive symptoms, muscle spasms and insomnia, as well as use as a preventative measure for those with a history of seizures when withdrawing (most often when with alcohol and methadone).
 
congrats man! sorry im a bit late, just found this thread! I'm goin through about the same exact thing...60mgs a day for about 5 months, and i've cut down to 15mgs twice a day, but every morning...maaaan. Can't wait to go out and get some, was it immodium ad? The shits in the morning...every day for the last month are the worssst. Anal leakage all day long wtf! Don't know how i got myself into this one, but reading all the posts and seeing you get out of it just makes me want to keep going even more. So side question, after an opiate addiction, do you guys think its possible to go back to being a "chipper", without getting sucked in again? Different for everybody? Impossible??

Cool man, what I did was reduced all my doses every couple of days, sometimes dropping 2mg sometimes 5mg. in the end the w/d's were nothing compared to when I tried to come off 30mg a day, just bad anxiety and insomnia for a few days.

I definitely wouldn't recommend chipping after you have been addicted, it is very tempting but just try to remember how bad it is making you feel going through withdrawals. It is not impossible but I would say it is highly likely you will get addicted again doing that.

Best of luck with your tapering, it is definitely possible if you stick at it.
 
You're in the UK? I hear gabapentin is easy to get there, and it helps me A LOT (esp. with a benzo) getting thru w/d's... I also have Suboxone too though which I will take after a cocktail of the aforementioned meds. I use heroin, IV. Not sure if that makes a shit of difference though.
 
Ohayou, I experienced horrible RLS when in withdrawal and given seroquel from the doc. It was my first time trying to stop, I had Baker Acted myself (for those overseas, I went to the hospital and told them I was a danger to myself/suicidal - I was using uppers, methadone and benzos occasionally at that time). I stayed in their Mental Health unit for about 4-5 days. I had already stopped going to the methadone clinic for a few days, so the attending doc switched me to bupe for a 4 day taper with ativan on the side, prescribed me depakote and seroquel and told me I would feel "just fine."

Well, doc was full of it. I don't know if it was the combination of depakote and seroquel, or the seroquel alone (since then, years later, I've been prescribed depakote as an anti-seizure med and had no such side effects), but combined with the withdrawal that I most certainly was still experiencing, I had horrible RLS that seemed like it would never go away. I thought I was going to be stuck like that forever. As soon as I could I went right back to the methadone clinic. If I hadn't done so I would have scored some H fairly easily in my neighborhood and been in an even worse position than I was.

I regularly take Tylenol/Advil PM or benadryl alone for sleep, but have not had the same reaction. I do sometimes shake a bit in my sleep (it will jerk me awake) but haven't determined if that is from the benadryl or any number of things I have taken or done to myself within the past 15 years. :)

To respond to OP: the 1-2 mg taper (slow taper - take your time and do it right! If you rush, you'll be right back where you began) is best, in my experience.

There are OTC medications that will assist with the complications of WD, most of which have been covered here. (Un)fortunately, you are not alone - there are many of us out there fighting the good fight, from all different life paths..there is a lot of support out there if you are so inclined.

Also, not all suboxone docs are super expensive...Before I had insurance, my visit was $120 each month ($150 when popped for a random urine test), and approximately $250 or so per month for 60 8 mg subutex each month. Its worth checking out, if you prefer or want to stop self medicating. I break mine in half and am now down to 1 and a half per day, with leftovers in case of an emergency (whether it be a personal emergency or a friend in need). This will be attempt #4 to taper down for me. Don't rush yourself and don't let family or peers rush you! It just doesn't work, IME.

Sorry for the lengthy post, I'm a bit extra Up Up today I guess. ;)
 
This thread from 2012.... Seriously people check the date of the last post before responding.
 
(This post is written in the 3'rd person,
So it isn't necessarily about the individual posting it) Hi guys. I am new to this site and wanted to share a story to, hopefully, prevent anyone from hurting themselves. This stuff can be dangerous, no bullshit! People may think I'm trolling or whatever, but I'm only here to inform and pass along a story of one of my buddies. SWIM discovered lope a few years ago, and found it helpful to get rid of wd's, but also found that enough of it could make him feel fairly good if not taken too frequently. Eventually, he went on Sub's for his love of opiates and didn't have to mess with it anymore. He'd been off subs for about a year, and got squirly about 1.5-2 months ago. He messed around with lope again for about 2 weeks or so, starting off with about 100mgs (with no tolerance), and went up from there. Like anything else, he had the mentality that if a little feels good, a lot will feel excellent. So, one night, he bought a bottle of 200 with the intention of taking 100 pills twice over the course of a week or so. However, with his addict mentality, he ended up downing them all (yes, he realized how dumb it was at the time, but is in that "fuck it. Watever is going to happen is going to happen," place. Add this to extreme depression, and you've got a volatile combination. Now, there are those people out there who will say that it doesn't cross the BBB, and doesn't do anything but cure diarrhea, but they've obviously never tried it at a high enough dose (don't knock it until you've tried it) because by the end of the night, he was slurring his words very noticeably and having trouble keeping his eyes open. He'd been here before with real dope, so he thought nothing of it and went to sleep. When he woke up, he thought he was still dreaming,
because he didn't know where he was and was confused as hell. Turns out he was in the back of an ambulance heading to the er. When he asked what was going on, the paramedics told him he had od'd. Impossible he said, because he hadn't taken anything. Took a few minutes to realize that it must have been the lope, because they told him it had taken 2 shots of naloxone to bring him back. Fortunately, his girlfriend had found him when she did, be cause the high dose had triggered a full blown NSTEMI heart attack. All the narcotics tests had come back negative, since they don't test for lope, so at least he didn't have to explain another drug related hospitalization to his family. He spent another 4 days in the hospital under observation, because they couldn't figure out what had caused the heart attack in the first place. They ended up deciding that it was triggered by a seizure since he is also epileptic. He is home now and back to 100%. Fortunately, his gf had found him right after it had happened and there was no brain damage (he had stopped breathing almost entirely for a little while). So, the main point of this post is to warn everyone that otc does not mean safe. SWIM's story will be posted in any other lope related threads, not to double post the same story but to warn people. He realizes that this was a downright idiotic move on his part, but as he said, depression+ addiction + not giving a damn = recipe for disaster. Therefore, he would like to skip all the criticism, because he knew it was dangerous but just didn't care. So, the moral of this story is BE CAREFUL with this stuff. just because it isn't regulated by the DEA doesn't mean is not dangerous. He would almost recommend sticking to real dope that you are familiar with and know the right amount to take (this is not 100% safe by any means, but not necessarily 100% more dangerous either). If you are going to take the plunge, start small and give yourself a few days in between each use. Lope had a pretty long half - life (19 hours), so you may end up taking more than intended if taken too close together. THIS POST IS NOT WRITTEN BY A TROLL TRYING TO START AN ARGUMENT. JUST SOMEONE TRYING TO POSSIBLY SAVE LIVES! Also, please don't take this post down for appearing in more than 1 thread. I want to reach as many people as possible and tell SWIM's story to warn them. So, to everyone else in the same boat as him, stay up and BE SAFE!
 
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