Opioids Opiate taper help.

[whatsup73]

I did a search of opiate taper and found http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/482413-Tapering-Plan-Mega-thread-community-project?highlight=opiate+taper It might help and it might not. But I read alot of it and learned alot from just reading. I also like to read to encourage me to keep going. Also try not to do more then you currently are with your taper or it could seriously screw it up and before you know it your back at day one. Hope that link can help ya some.

 

[Danny Weed]

Thanks again, that thread looks really good so I will be having a read through that

 

[Mudvayne]

are you iving your morphine or what ROA are you using?

 

[Danny Weed]

I am taking it orally, it is in a liquid solution.

 

[Where Wolf?]

To Danny Weed - it seems most posters on this thread are in the US, where cheap generic loperamide is much easier to find than in the UK. But the obvious MAJOR chemist chain does do a generic that's cheaper than Immodium, and it's uncontrolled/not difficult to import from the US.

I tapered down from a habit that had me on a 'stable' dose of 120-150mgs of oramorph/crushed MSTs, but often saw me take 2 to 3 times that for a buzz, or add on fentanyl patches, Oxys, hydro, DHC, whatever I could get my hands on. It only took about a month to taper off a six-month daily habit, and about a year of frequent use before that, but it sounds like you're experiencing worse withdrawals than I did: metabolisms vary. The three most useful tools, in my case, were loperamide, kratom and codeine when I jumped off of the morph. I tried to taper with a bunch of DHC continuous - but I find DHC almost as euphoric, in high doses, as hydro, and I couldn't control my intake.

It's not easy to source good kratom, but it really does, when found, take a lot of the edge off of withdrawals for many people - and if you're sensitive to such a relatively low dose of morphine, it might work for you. Not cheap though.

Otherwise, good luck, don't overdo the loperamide, and if it gets too rough, don't hesitate to seek medical attention - you can locate your local DDU and see if they're useful, if you don't want to 'fess up to your GP. But do NOT let them put you on even low-dose methadone: it's harder to kick than morph or H, from what I've seen (only used methadone twice, years ago, and although I was chipping H back then, it just made me high for an hour and then sick for 24, suspect I overdid it).

Final thing: I'd be very, very careful about turning to benzos. I was on 4-6mgs aprazolam a day during my heaviest opiate use, and kind of wish I'd tapered off the benzos before quitting the painkillers. I managed to switch to valium and get down to 25mgs a day: then had a panic attack when confronted with the object of a lifelong phobia, gulped 60mgs, and before I knew it, was on 100+ a day. I ran out of supplies, didn't get any intelligent responses from GPs, and am now tapering off of Etizolam: down to 5mgs a day, now, but it's getting tougher with each drop, and it's going to take at least a month or two to get down to zero. If you're not on benzos already, avoid if at all possible: the addiction/withdrawal cycle is much tougher on the body than opiates, can kill in extreme cases, and cold turkey's not an option, while tapering is a long, slow, and unpleasant process.

Promethazine will potentiate morphine, so be sparing in its use - it effectively increases the dose you're on.

 

[Danny Weed]

Thanks for all that info, the thing you said about promethazine is interesting, I will be leaving that out.

I have decided to not use loperamide unless I really need it at the end when I come off the morph all together or if I get an upset stomach, really want to do it without adding loads of different pills into the mix.

I definitely understand where you are coming from with the benzos, I wont be using them at all I like them too much and could quite easily end up on them all the time. They would be very useful but I cant risk it.


You must have been tapering quite fast to get off it that quick, did you have much withdrawal as you were tapering during the month?

How low did you taper your morphine dose before you stopped?

If I jump off at say 5mg would the w/d be a lot easier than it would be at the current dose?

Thanks again.

 

[madonit]

people who say morphine sukks have probably never took a decent enough dose to try it properly orally from a 100mg mst only around 30mg gets into your bloodstream it is poorly absorbed into the bloodstream but a opiate that sukks it is not !!! do u like smokable powder heroin from afghanistan more than pharmacutical diamorphine or china white ?? wheather smoked or injected ? if yes you are a fan of morphine without knowing it some batches of afghan heroin only contain around 60-70% diamorphine freebase and also contains upto 20% morphine that has failed to be converted to heroin. its the morphine content that gives street heroin its prickly rush. a lot of hardcore addicts hate prescribed heroin due to its lack of a prikkly feeling. they say prescribed diamorphine feeling its less intense than freebased street heroin from the stan . So u still think morphines crap ???? try the big 200mg mst continus teal green eggs swallow 3 then chew one up then get back to me on that one ;-) and chuck sum sevredol or oramorph in for good measure morphine is crap ive heard it all now !

promethazine is similar to cyclizine which im prescribed but its not as nice. its called sominex in uk and is sold as a over the counter sleeping aid cyclizine is the best antihistamine for potentiating opiates and especially the opioid dipipanone.

 

[madonit]

Thanks for all that info, the thing you said about promethazine is interesting, I will be leaving that out.

I have decided to not use loperamide unless I really need it at the end when I come off the morph all together or if I get an upset stomach, really want to do it without adding loads of different pills into the mix.

I definitely understand where you are coming from with the benzos, I wont be using them at all I like them too much and could quite easily end up on them all the time. They would be very useful but I cant risk it.


You must have been tapering quite fast to get off it that quick, did you have much withdrawal as you were tapering during the month?

How low did you taper your morphine dose before you stopped?

If I jump off at say 5mg would the w/d be a lot easier than it would be at the current dose?

Thanks again.

if you are getting oramorph liquid 10mg/5ml the best way is to just go 30 29 28 etc dropping 1mg a day but if u do 25 in the day then 5 at night try doing that in 3 doses a day instead of 2 say 10mg morning 10 mg afternoon 10mg evening probably easier to drop the mornings dose down to 10mg then take a higher dose once daily in the evening maybe go 20 19 18 etc hope that helps danny weed

 

[Where Wolf?]

I didn't find tapering as hard as I'd expected - I switched from Oramorph to crushed-up time release MSTs, and dropped about 5mgs a day. I was working full-time, including some very high-pressure situations, and I was able to keep it together at that pace, though I had a slight cold for a month or so. When I'd got down to 15mgs a day, I started substituting with codeine one day (about 100-120 mgs), high-strength kratom the next, for about a week: then rapidly dropped a steady codeine dose till I was clean, over about a week or so. Had a bad cold for a few days afterwards, and then was pretty much okay.

That said, I subsequently found that using any opiate more than maybe once a month is out of the question for me now: which is a bitch, as I get frequent migraines that NSAIDS won't touch (which is how I got into the whole mess in the first place). But if I take even 50mgs or so of codeine for a few consecutive days, I'll get sick when I stop. No going back....

I'd say jumping off at 5mgs should be okay - lay in a few day's worth of good kratom or some codeine: even without CWE'ing, Solpadiene Migraine or Cuprofen Plus at therapeutic doses (two pills) give you 25mgs of codeine and 400 of ibuprofen - roughly 50% as potent, opiate-wise, as 5mgs morphine, unless you're enzyme-deficient. Take two twice a day, then start reducing by half a pill a day - if you want to avoid the ibuprofen, then you can always CWE. Codeine can be useful at the tail-end of a taper, but your mileage, as ever, may vary.

Good luck!

 

[Danny Weed]

Thanks it is definitely all helfull, I have learned loads from this thread, I had no idea how I was going to taper before but I am becoming more confident now. I dropped 3mg this morning and have felt not too bad, can really feel the anxiety but had no physical symptoms today.

One of the main things I am worried about is not eating enough over the period of the taper. I have hardly no appetite in this state so I will be like a skeleton in 6 weeks or so when i'm done.

Thanks as well madonit, I will split the dose up into 3 if It gets too hard.

 

[whatsup73]

If you have no apetite then you MUST force yourself to eat. Take vitamins. Drink those ensure drinks or some kind of meal replacement drink. This is very crucial as the not eating can make you feel even worse. Take some L-Tyrosine Vitamin B6 and a strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper, Magnesium and Potassium (you may not find the potassium in the same supplement). Bananas are good if you cant find potassium. I got this from the thomas recipe. Its something for opiate withdrawls. Im not sure if we are allowed to post links so goto google and search it. It may help you out loads.

 

[madonit]

Thats kool danny i know what its like in the uk to find meds that help detox of stronger opiates like morphine. I like to comment on posts i relate to even if people disagree with my opinion world would be boaring if everyone was the same. I hope my experiences of opiates and opiods can help others. Im prescribed morphine in both long acting mst's and faster acting sevredol tablets so know how both types work, with the oramorph its very short acting and in most people only prescribed it in short acting instant release form would be in withdrawal no later than 8 hours after their last dose. oramorph is ment to be taken at least 3 times a day. Solpadol 30mg codiene 500mg tablets would be a good idea for a switch when u get down to 5mg a day if you can get those normally women are quite commonly issued them. other wise its OTC ones like Paramol with 7.4mg dihydrocodiene in them or solpedine max i think they are called that have about 12.5mg of codiene in each tablet. They do help and cannot be abused unless u wanna screw ur liver up with excess paracaetamol intake. if your docs tight n wont help if u have dental probs uk dentists are allowed to prescribe 30mg dhc tablets for dental pain it says so in the british national formula nhs ones woudnt i dont expect thou. all the best hope it goes well

 

[Danny Weed]

Yeah I am going to buy some of them meal replacement milkshakes. I can eat early on in the day after my first dose but after that I feel sick at the thought of food so the milkshakes will be better than nothing.

Just read the thomas recipe there, sounds helpful. I am going to try to find a good 'wide-spectrum mineral supplement' now.

 

[madonit]

I used to drink yazoo milkshakes by the litre bottles if withrawing n cant eat or nesquik strawberry uns mixed up strong. very tasty deff make u feel better if u cant eat i found tomato soup as a drink helps well too even better if you can swallow a piece of toast wiv it one thing thou if u ever see a doc n they offer u methadone tell em to shove it up their ass. Over prescribing or dose saturation with methadone has ruined my life im opiate dependant forever on mst as i hate methadone and wont touch it unless weed gets legalised im on something for life so i cud make my own pure high potency hash and oils for oral use. Lack of good bud and hash turns people to hard drugs

 

[Danny Weed]

Yeah I will definitely be avoiding methadone, read enough about that over the last week to scare me away. Sounds very hard to come off.

I think I am going to have to split my doses up like you said. I was ok all day on 33mg then I had my 5mg at 6pm, started to go downhill really fast then so I had 2mg and it made me normal again.

Going to see a doctor tomorrow and will tell him the situation. I know there is not much he can do but he can maybe give me some anti nausea pills or something.

 

[Danny Weed]

The doctor is referring me to a drug specialist, he said they will prescribe me something to help me taper when they see me. Does anyone know what they might give me? I wont be accepting methadone (I really think they will have more sense that giving this to someone on such a small dose)

 

[whatsup73]

They will prob try to give you meth or subs..

 

[Danny Weed]

I see, Is it worth taking the subs do you think? I went 23 hours between doses today, felt like shit towards the end but only took 18mg today so that is a bit of progress.

 

[whatsup73]

I think if you have a good supply you could do it on your own . You seem like your mind is set and you want off. You might be lucky like me and get a dr who will give you the drugs to taper instead of meth. Its always worth a shot to see what they will do. Ask for some clonidine i think that stuff is great.

 

[Danny Weed]

Yeah I would really really like some clonidine, it sounds great. I will definitely ask for that. I definitely have enough morphine to last so that is probably better than trading one addiction for the other with subs.