Bupe OCD is killing my attempts to get back on suboxone. Need a round table of minds.

[Area57]

I need to gather you guys' experience and help me get clean. I'm not succeeding here on my own. The days just go by and by slowly and I feel worse and worse but keep using. I need all of you guys thoughts on what I should do because I don't know. I will try to sum it up as brief as possible.

12 years ago tried heroin, used for six months got put on suboxone. Very easy transition.
11 years ago tapered off subs, got addicted to H for three months, reinduced myself. Easy.
stayed on suboxone for all these years, except I did quit twice and was without any opiates for two one year periods.
during this whole 12 year time I had maybe three, one month long heroin only use periods before getting back on subs and multiple one or two day H uses.

So I am on H now and it has been about a year! I have never been on it that long. It started as one day, but somehow it just got out of control and I spent several months taking suboxone in the morning, swearing to quit that day, but caved most days and took heroin at night. It makes me sad to write this because I had a girlfriend back then, and if I think about it, it is very sad, because I remember talking to her and her trying to help me get better. She is gone, but she told me to just stop taking the subs until I could finally get it together and commit to taking only them.

it seems like a while ago, but I think I remember they stopped taking away the morning sickness after months of this jumping back and forth. I was only taking about 1mg in the morning, so I am hoping it is just that I drove my opiate tolerance up so high that that small amount of subs wasn't enough.

so I stopped this using both and only took H and the days, became weeks became months. Now I am scared and desperate. I no longer have even her to talk to and help me. I am not homeless or anything and I have a place to live and all that, but they don't know, nor can they know I am addicted. My plan is to tell them I can't find a sub doctor(which is true) and I have to cut my sub dosage in half so I will feel shitty for for a week or so.

so my OCD fixates on what I fear. When I was pretty happy and stable on 1-2mg a day of subs all those years I would fear getting sick with a cold or flu, or something trivial. But now that I am on drugs and scared, I have centered my OCD around suboxone not working anymore. That I abused it and now I have no chance and will be stuck on H until I die. I am OCDing this because this is what I fear most, subs not working and not having a way to get clean. I do not feel I have it in me to cold turkey.

so I need help. Unfortunately I have scoured the Internet for searches like "suboxone doesn't work anymore" and found stuff like this:

"back and forth from bupe to using is not a good idea. It confuses your brain and eventually the bupe looses a lot of its efficiency and it becomes a lot harder to make the transition onto it."

i wish the the poster of that, Mr. Scagnante stil posted on here, he seemed to know a lot.

Its classic ocd, hypochondriac behaviors. Have a few symptoms to a disease and look online and cherry pick the information that confirms you have what you are afraid of. But this is preventing me from trying because I am scared to find out it won't work. I am also scared to let myself get sick, fail, get sick, fail. And just end up in a cycle of trying to re induce and failing and hurting my health.

i don't know how to do this. Unfortunately, I have read a lot of weird stuff online and scared myself to pieces and convinced myself subs won't work for me anymore. Last night I just read all sorts of posts of difficult sub inductions, but I didn't read about al the people that had an easy time, and maybe they aren't posting anyways because they don't need help.

i did go to a detox center a couple weeks ago, I waited 18-20 hours since last use and took 2mg, one hour later 2mg and started dry heaving into the pillow and panicked and checked out and went home and shot up and passed out. It was very disheartening because I watched all the other people at the detox go from somewhat sick to taking suboxone and be walking around smiling and talking. I didn't feel any good benefits, but I also don't think it was precipitated withdrawal because I didn't have the worst feeling ever, I just felt like I went from 18-20 hours after last use to maybe 24-30 hours, like I felt really bad, but not withdrawal times ten like I read about. I tried talking to the night nurse because I had to wait until 10:30 to take it and she didn't have the authority to give me more suboxone before eight hours and also once I was on subs couldn't give me clonidine or anything else. The night nurse isn't as powerful as the day nurses I guess.

so here I am and I have read about another member on here that tried a method where you induce little bits of suboxone and use tiny amounts of H in the afternoon and evening for the first few days, to help you stabilize and get your tolerance down. I guess the thinking is that the reason suboxone may become harder to work on some people is they have a high tolerance. So this method builds the subs in your system while getting your tolerance down. From everybody that tried it they reported success, if they could have the willpower to stop taking the H.

i think I would like to try this, but then again I have OCD and am desperate. I am shooting for Monday to try to get clean, with whatever method works. What do you guys think? I know I am overthinking this, have you heard or experienced suboxone stopping working? What should I do to get it to work? People tell me I'm crazy and of course it works, why would it stop working! I've just found a couple of random examples on the Internet and should just shut up and take suboxone. Is that right?

i promise, if you help me get stable on suboxone and only suboxone, I will never use any other opiates ever again. Not even once. I am not even just saying that.

 

[bukweat]

Man you're overthinking this . You know how it works,although I agree jumping from subs to dope is counter-productive. In my humble opinion I would do just as you were doing during those successful periods. Albeit the sub induction does get harder each time(speaking from personal exp).
Like the man said each journey begins with the first step. Allowing yourself more time before sub induction should help. Make sure your really dope-sick before beginning the subs.

 

[Area57]

Lol, I know I'm overthinking this! I need to hear it too, I can get so wrapped up in my head and thinking. I swear if you met me you would never know I was like this!

what do you mean when you say it does get harder each time? That's one of the things I have read. How many times have you tried? It always still worked? Do you think it was because your tolerance was higher each time?

I guess im most scared because I OCD about it not working and then when I took it, I felt worse. But that was only one try. I will shut up and listen now.

 

[bukweat]

What I meant by theinduction phase becoming more dificult (and this is ancdotal-my experience). is that it took more time and larger doses of subs to get me well.
But again don't become self defeating about the induction, it will work. Iknow where you're coming from on the ocd. I have a tendency to over-analyze and make things way more complicated that need be. Trying to focus on the positive aspects helps me.
Good luck with the sub induction , I'd like to read that this was a success for you later.

 

[CTdopeLove]

Switching back and forth between bupe and dope is common, and does not cause lasting changes in your body's ability to process suboxone. However, 1-2mg is WAY too small a dose for someone struggling, I would suggest AT LEAST 8mg/day, which should substantially cut down on cravings and saturate your receptors enough that you can't get high off dope. Once you wasteyourmoney on dope a few times you'll start thinking differently about it.

Your incorrect belief that suboxone doesn't work anymore is simply your drug-addled brain trying to justify continuing with your heroin addiction.

Good luck!

-Treeburner

 

[crzydiamond]

Very simple. Don't over implicate it

Wait until you are far in withdrawal as you can stand. The worse you feel the better you will feel when you take the sub
Start with 1 mg just to make sure you won't experience precipitated wd. If you don't feel the worst dope sickness ever within 5-10 minutes then you are fine to take more sub

Then take 4 mg. if you're not feeling better within an hour take another 4 mg.
yes you may think it's a high dose--and it is compared to your previous doses--but you can do that just for the first few days so your body can transition and not crave and not be affected by dope

That's it. Anything else is your brain obsessing.

And remember --95% of the things we worry about never come to pass. So in effect, most of our worries are about fantasies our minds create

You can do this. It's just a little harder after multiple switches because your body needs more and it doesn't instantly feel 110%. But that doesn't mean subs won't work anymore

 

[vedev]

Area57, it sounds like you're going through a pretty rough time. I want to make something clear--SUBOXONE DEFINITELY STILL WORKS ON YOU. UNLESS YOU ARE AN EXTRATERRESTRIAL WHOSE PHYSIOLOGY DIFFERS FROM THAT OF A HUMAN BEING, WITH 100 PERCENT CERTAINTY I CAN SAY THAT SUBOXONE STILL WORKS ON YOU.
As others have said, wait until you're dopesick then take suboxone. I recommend taking an entire 8mg tablet--that way you won't be able to get high on heroin for at least 48 hours.
If you have a suboxone prescription, take an 8mg tablet every day. That's how i got off of dope, and it'll work for you too, provided that you consistently use suboxone. No screwing around, just take a tablet every day.
No doubt you'll still try to get high. It won't work.

 

[thelung]

I have OCD too, and I've found Luvox (Fluvoxamine) to be very helpful in controlling my symptoms. I also take 0.5mg Klonopin (Clonazepam) when needed...maybe ask your doctor about these meds for OCD....just a thought.

 

[Area57]

Ok and everybody

Bukwheat- that makes sense and that goes along with what I have read, it takes longer to work and you need more. Makes sense. Because the more opiates you do and for longer, the higher you tolerance will be. 12 years ago when I first started my tolerance was way lower so the suboxone kicked right in. Amos for the anecdote. Helps.

CT - I agree, and the sane part of my brain has tried to get that thought through. Maybe this fear of subs not working, preventing me from taking them, is just some B.S. Excuse that my druggie brain came up with so I never have to face reality and continue using.m I would like to tell that part of my brain how unhappy I am using however. 1mg is way too small of a dose. I shouldn't expect it to work that low. I guess I just thought I would feel something different from taking that much, or the time in detox I took two and two, but honestly, the second 2mg pill I put in my mouth I did dry heave and spit all over the bed I was laying down in, so I don't think that one got a chance to kick in. I think it got spit out.

crzydiamond- that sounds like a good schedule. 1mg and fifteen minutes is enough to know whether I took it too soon and will go into precipitated withdrawal? I guess my gut feeling is that I am going to have to get really patient for this induction and take probably the most suboxone I have ever taken in a day. I'm not going to be stupid about it. I think it will take 16-24. I'm just scared I will wait and get sick, which of course sucks, and then take 16mg and feel nothing! If that happens, does that mean that my body just needs more time for the suboxone to get on the receptors and stabi'ized? Or should I not even worry about at maybe happening.

Jeez, for some reason it's like since I have done H for a year strait, in my mind I'm practically the world's biggest junkie with the biggest habit and highest tolerance.mmimdont think its really like that! Some people, if they had a 12 year history like I do since first trying it, would have been on H far more than I was.

Vedev, exactly what I need to hear. Exactly what my girlfriend told me. She is outside the situation and was like,

what? Why wouldn't it work? It always worked for you before

So I said : well, I read on'ine that some people it stops working for or they get too big of a tolerance and it isn't strong enough to cover that tolerance.

she said: you're overthinking this, just because you cherry picked the information from a couple of people that you read about online doesn't mean anything, it is a scientific fact that it will work. How do you know those people didn't just wait like an hour after shooting up and take it, or who knows what they did, maybe they are just scared like you and looking for an excuse to keep using.

Thelung- I have never heard of Luvox, I will look into it. I do take up to 1 and 1/2 mg of klonopin per day, prescribed. I have never abused it, it works well. I unstoppable not be able to sleep half the time of go out of the house sometimes, just the psychological factor that I have it helps, knowing I can take it if things get bad.

thanks people, please, keep the encourage,net, and stories and advice coming.

 

[vedev]

Your girlfriend sounds like a smart woman--you're lucky to have that kind of support! Good luck, area57--here's hoping you kick your addiction right in the ass.