Might be of some use on this topic. From the DANCESAFE site looking at overall risks of drug use. Check out the chart down the page.
http://dancesafe.org/documents/druginfo/risk.php
http://dancesafe.org/documents/druginfo/risk.php
NEWS: The Australian - 5/09/2005 'Totally addicted to ice'
- Thread starter hoptis
- Start date
meth keeps ya comin back for more. heroin is specifically for people who have troubles, worries in their lives. it basically acts like a magic wand and takes away those worries- those who use it or have done it before.. ya noe wad i mean right?
basically my thought process on heroin is like this:
'woah.. cant worry... is it possible to worry on H'-here cut short by an inability to worry. 'cant worry... cant worry... is worrying about not being able to worry considered-' cut short again by inability to worry.
so basically it takes away your worries- for people who have alot of troubles, constant thoughts about recent shite stuff in their lives, highly emotional people... heroin is their escape. for these people, heroin would be far more addictive than ice.
another factor in determining how hard ice and heroin are to quite comparatively (other than emotional state and 'worry'-meter), is whether or not they are truly addicted! ice, unlike heroin, has NO physical withdrawal symptoms. HOLDON, LET ME FINISH! coming down occurs in both H and ice- ice having a FAR worse comedown. the ice addiction, however, is PSYCHOLOGICAL. you can crave it for all you want, and in the process dwell on how miserable and how inactive and lazy you are, thus feel physically crap. BUT- it is not like heroin, where there is a definite physical reaction when there is a lack of heroin in your body! its called WITHDRAWAL!
how addicted you are, and your method of ingestion determine the magnitude of your withdrawal. my friend who jabbed heroin for 5-6months had withdrawal on par or perhaps slightly less than another friend, who had smoked it for 3years. when i mean withdrawal, i mean: unexplained gagging (even with no recent ingestion of food), shivering, uncontrollable twitching, slight paralysis, a back where 'screws are twisted in constantly' [to quote my eloquent but rather subdued friend].
the heroin withdrawal and the onset of worrying (after the opiates are depleted) are the main motivating factors for heroin users to start using again.
Ice, has no withdrawal. but the constant chasing for that high, the constant comparison our mind between the state of being high and being sober, cause a power crave and thus addiction. it is basically this: you just want to get high!
this, in comparison to a heroin addict, who experiences physical AND mental pain and torture.
if you're really addicted to H....it aint funny. i've shot both up, but i've never gotten addicted to H. didnt do it long enough for my brain to get dependant on it so as to initiate withdrawal symptoms. I am addicted to ice, BUT. again- control and rationality. <ok fine since its aus i also have to admit financial constraints do play a large part in my choice of whether to use or not>.
conclusively, heroin ADDICTS have a much harder time kicking it. Ice ADDICTS have an easier time- at least they dont have to deal with physical pain.
(please pay attention to the words in CAPS- they make all the difference.)
basically my thought process on heroin is like this:
'woah.. cant worry... is it possible to worry on H'-here cut short by an inability to worry. 'cant worry... cant worry... is worrying about not being able to worry considered-' cut short again by inability to worry.
so basically it takes away your worries- for people who have alot of troubles, constant thoughts about recent shite stuff in their lives, highly emotional people... heroin is their escape. for these people, heroin would be far more addictive than ice.
another factor in determining how hard ice and heroin are to quite comparatively (other than emotional state and 'worry'-meter), is whether or not they are truly addicted! ice, unlike heroin, has NO physical withdrawal symptoms. HOLDON, LET ME FINISH! coming down occurs in both H and ice- ice having a FAR worse comedown. the ice addiction, however, is PSYCHOLOGICAL. you can crave it for all you want, and in the process dwell on how miserable and how inactive and lazy you are, thus feel physically crap. BUT- it is not like heroin, where there is a definite physical reaction when there is a lack of heroin in your body! its called WITHDRAWAL!
how addicted you are, and your method of ingestion determine the magnitude of your withdrawal. my friend who jabbed heroin for 5-6months had withdrawal on par or perhaps slightly less than another friend, who had smoked it for 3years. when i mean withdrawal, i mean: unexplained gagging (even with no recent ingestion of food), shivering, uncontrollable twitching, slight paralysis, a back where 'screws are twisted in constantly' [to quote my eloquent but rather subdued friend].
the heroin withdrawal and the onset of worrying (after the opiates are depleted) are the main motivating factors for heroin users to start using again.
Ice, has no withdrawal. but the constant chasing for that high, the constant comparison our mind between the state of being high and being sober, cause a power crave and thus addiction. it is basically this: you just want to get high!
this, in comparison to a heroin addict, who experiences physical AND mental pain and torture.
if you're really addicted to H....it aint funny. i've shot both up, but i've never gotten addicted to H. didnt do it long enough for my brain to get dependant on it so as to initiate withdrawal symptoms. I am addicted to ice, BUT. again- control and rationality. <ok fine since its aus i also have to admit financial constraints do play a large part in my choice of whether to use or not>.
conclusively, heroin ADDICTS have a much harder time kicking it. Ice ADDICTS have an easier time- at least they dont have to deal with physical pain.
(please pay attention to the words in CAPS- they make all the difference.)
Special-T.B.K
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Being an ex Meth addict I can say that it is a bad habit to kick, once you've re-invented your brain into meth use. You feel it's all you can do to feel good when really you just need a pouch of rollies for everytime you crave a hit and about 7 days to get away from it...
I smoked meth and it was difficult to kick. But Now that I'm off it (addiction) I feel great and try to give advice to n00b meth users!
SpecTBK
I smoked meth and it was difficult to kick. But Now that I'm off it (addiction) I feel great and try to give advice to n00b meth users!
SpecTBK
SardonicNihilist
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Bullshit article! Why mention the gay community, the spread of AIDS, that sick fuck who tortured animals etc.?? Just think of all the call centre operators and car wash attendants who can get through their day without abusing some dimwitted customer, the fewer car accidents after parties because people are concentrating so bloody hard (compared to alcohol-fuelled events), spotlessly clean houses across the country, healthy, well- exercised pets, neat gardens, students who write amazing essays and sit through three hour exams to pass with flying colours, the guy working night shift at the petrol station, stacking the shelves at your supermarket... it's part of the fight against obesity, encourages people to live a fit and active lifestyle, tomorrow's anorexic models today... it means truck drivers can spend (maybe) a little extra time with their kids.... the list could go on forever. Meth= the wonder drug!!!
Go play skirmish / paintballing on meth and I challenge you to speak of it with any negativity!
OK, I admit, slow release amphetamines like Ritalin /Dexedrines would probably be a little safer and profitable when fed to schoolchildren nationwide, but where's the fun in that?
As always, a couple of psychos blemish the good name of a highly useful chemical.
I'm not going to argue which is more addictive, heroin or 'ice', there's a time and a place for them both- but the simple fact that a person can utilise their brain on 'ice' having not slept for days and still operate as a normally functioning member of society speaks volumes. A heroin addict is just sick, and needs medicine- it's a physical addiction. A lot of people I know take a lot of (meth)amphetamines, and aside from the legality of the substance, they are perfectly sensible, law-abiding, if not model citizens.
If someone can't handle what they are taking into their system, then they ought to control themselves- blame the particularly disturbed and weak minded humans, not methamphetamines!! No-one suggests banning alcohol any time alcohol is involved in , let's just say, 'some form of anti-social behaviour'!?
just my thoughts, hope they came out coherently enough for most to comprehend:D
Go play skirmish / paintballing on meth and I challenge you to speak of it with any negativity!
OK, I admit, slow release amphetamines like Ritalin /Dexedrines would probably be a little safer and profitable when fed to schoolchildren nationwide, but where's the fun in that?
As always, a couple of psychos blemish the good name of a highly useful chemical.
I'm not going to argue which is more addictive, heroin or 'ice', there's a time and a place for them both- but the simple fact that a person can utilise their brain on 'ice' having not slept for days and still operate as a normally functioning member of society speaks volumes. A heroin addict is just sick, and needs medicine- it's a physical addiction. A lot of people I know take a lot of (meth)amphetamines, and aside from the legality of the substance, they are perfectly sensible, law-abiding, if not model citizens.
If someone can't handle what they are taking into their system, then they ought to control themselves- blame the particularly disturbed and weak minded humans, not methamphetamines!! No-one suggests banning alcohol any time alcohol is involved in , let's just say, 'some form of anti-social behaviour'!?
just my thoughts, hope they came out coherently enough for most to comprehend:D
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SardonicNihilist said:
Hahahaha...are you serious when you say that a person can operate normally on ice after having been up for days? Because...um...that's so wrong I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Listen mate, meth is highly addictive, neurotoxic and associated with anxiety disorders and depression. It's not a socially useful chemical.
A person who's been up for days on meth isn't a normally functioning person. The only reason you'd say this is if you've either never experienced meth in this way, or you have and you're kidding yourself.
Christ...meth as social good? Used recreationally once every so often for a bit it's fine, but to say it's a wonder drug and that someone up for days on meth is functioning normally is fucken stupid.
Diacetylus
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^I'd wager he was geeked on meth when he typed that.
After a meth-run in the early hours of last Friday morning and feeling like complete death Friday afternoon on public transport for an hour, I have got to say that I can never fathom how one really enjoys meth/ice on a consecutive day binge. Maybe I just dosed too high, or maybe I'm susceptable to the negative effects it causes, but how people find immense anxiety and mental instability (from the comedown) doesn't get in the way of their addiction to meth is beyond me.
As you use the stuff more do you somehow become tolerant to the comedown or something?
After a meth-run in the early hours of last Friday morning and feeling like complete death Friday afternoon on public transport for an hour, I have got to say that I can never fathom how one really enjoys meth/ice on a consecutive day binge. Maybe I just dosed too high, or maybe I'm susceptable to the negative effects it causes, but how people find immense anxiety and mental instability (from the comedown) doesn't get in the way of their addiction to meth is beyond me.
As you use the stuff more do you somehow become tolerant to the comedown or something?
im also a meth user and dont function normally after bring up for days.. sure i can function... but.. wad.. far below baseline?
put it this way- meth makes u a machine for the 1st day or 2max- no need to eat sleep and u perform tasks with ultra focus. but... thats gotta take its toll mate. in a cliche way- we're humans, not machines. thus at the end... deliriousness usually takes the cake. i imagined conversations between characters in my head which had no relevance to the current activity i was engaged in...
diacetylus- sorry tried replying but mailbox fucked. yeah i totally agree- public transport is my no.1 fear when i'm high or coming down. bloody hell... i'm not sure whether its me or my paranoia or the passengers. lol. i think its all 3 really. how long was that meth run on friday? and how do ya spread the stuff?? if youre comin down friday afternoon.. hmm.. seems abit quick..
put it this way- meth makes u a machine for the 1st day or 2max- no need to eat sleep and u perform tasks with ultra focus. but... thats gotta take its toll mate. in a cliche way- we're humans, not machines. thus at the end... deliriousness usually takes the cake. i imagined conversations between characters in my head which had no relevance to the current activity i was engaged in...
diacetylus- sorry tried replying but mailbox fucked. yeah i totally agree- public transport is my no.1 fear when i'm high or coming down. bloody hell... i'm not sure whether its me or my paranoia or the passengers. lol. i think its all 3 really. how long was that meth run on friday? and how do ya spread the stuff?? if youre comin down friday afternoon.. hmm.. seems abit quick.
.Special-T.B.K
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satricion said:
Completely agree, I used to use meth alot and be up for upto 4-5 even 6 days... without sleep. When you hit that 4th day that was pushing the envelope. Things started falling apart, shadows were of a major concern and conversation went from actual convo into 2 pieced words from 20 different sentences... Lots of laughing and (what did you say?'s).... As for normal functioning- Things were very messy- Or as we like to say. V-Messy, Soak it up!
SpecTBK
Diacetylus
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lupozade said:
Ohh, uhm... I had been drinking alcohol and smoking Heroin Thursday night and in the early hours of Friday morning. I had just been out, so I was drinking quite a hefty amount. On the way through St. Kilda, bumped into a random stranger and asked him if he could score me some "Ice" (meth) and after tasting a bit with my tongue, the extremely bitter-salty after taste made me think the product was decent enough.
I went back to my mate's place, got there at about 5:30am and started smoking in small incriments off foil, which left no residue, that made me conclude the product was of decent purity. Also, the taste was very "clean", not that usual "fishy" taste I get from smoking meth, it tasted what I'd imagine aeroplane glue to taste (judging by the glue's smell) like.
When my mate got up, he decided to have a few burns of the product himself and commented on how decent it was, but he encouraged we smoke the whole lot, there and then in one bang and we did. So, I couldn't really stretch the high out that much, as much as I would have liked to anyways.
We made our way into the city, because my mate had to make an appearance in court and by the time we sat down for a quick rejuvenation snack I could feel the comedown beginning to manifest itself, which was at about 1:30pm.
The high from this meth was fantastic, but the anxiety began creeping up pretty early and so did the slight paranoia. I guess, by the time I got home that afternoon at about 5:00pm. I was feeling the comedown good and strong (anyone ever experience that overpowering anxiety, thumping chest and feeling of not being right inside of your body, kind of distant from your exterior surroundings?).
I checked my pupils in the mirror and they were the size of dishplates, which was annoying because people can tell when I've been using meth almost instantly by just looking at my eyes.
Overall, I think it might have been the alcohol consumed the previous night/morning that had contributed to the terrible and early onset of the comedown. I remember telling myself Friday night, "Never again!", like I always do. Also, the following day, my body was emmiting that really strong ammonia smell and my piss stank and was extremely yellow/thick.
It took me a good 2-3 days to recover from that session, but I feel pretty well unscathed now.
Sorry for the intricate details and long post.
ah... hehe sounds like ya had good fun. hmm... pupils dilated so huge from smoking? wow.. when i do my first shot of meth usually my eyes dont dilate... till i do the 2nd one. but once they dilate it usually means i got a shitload in me, and they stay that way for near 12hrs.
pure dope
Bluelighter
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lupozade said:
Either you have a high tolerance or your getting crap rock? When you say only on your 2nd shot your pupils dilate how much are you mixing up? Personally I have a high tolerance but with good gear my eyes look like and owls and dry reaching off 2 points
. I prefer to have it all in one go, I dont see the point of having multiple shots and not to mention doing more damage to your veins...unless your mixing up large amounts? Why are you so suprised that your pupils can dilate so big after smoking??hmmm... usually after i smoke a gram my pupils dont dilate... the first time i shot up they went huge straight away. hmm i've been lowering my tolerance by staying away. at one point i was doing 3day runs then 2 day rests. there was once i woke up, shot up about a point and half (in the morning) and my eyes didnt dilate.. i think i was rather tolerant at that point. now however... about a point will see me dilated and ready. damn man, keepin sober is hard. i'm forcing myself to stay away... and everynight.. i dream painful painful dreams- i'l bet u know wad its like?? k- imagine youre sober, thinking about that exact moment after you've pulled the plunger and registered the vein, then pushing it allllll in at once, after which u pump the plunger in and out a bit- at that moment you feel your heart race out from inside your body, your airway dilate (yeah that burning throat thing), your vision becomes dreamy from dilated pupils... fuck man im really craving it. but. i shall stay away for awhile more, so that when i return to miss krystal queen it'l be like the first time all over again.
ps.. hmm. i'm quite certain that i dont get crap rock.. i mean im still dreaming those dreams after 3 weeks of being sober.. hmm... personally i tend to spread mine out a bit, not all in one go. had a bad 'all in 1 go' experience... immediate hallucinations etc. lol. actually i think i'll try that again when i use again.
ps.. hmm. i'm quite certain that i dont get crap rock.. i mean im still dreaming those dreams after 3 weeks of being sober.. hmm... personally i tend to spread mine out a bit, not all in one go. had a bad 'all in 1 go' experience... immediate hallucinations etc. lol. actually i think i'll try that again when i use again.