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NEWS: Sunday Mail - 20/01/08 'Caffeine-alcohol cocktail danger'

hoptis

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Caffeine-alcohol cocktail danger
By David Nankervis
January 20, 2008 12:01am

THE mixing of caffeine-laced energy drinks with alcohol verges on "legalised drink spiking", South Australian Democrats MP Sandra Kanck has warned.

The Australian Medical Association has joined Ms Kanck in calling for an urgent public safety campaign alerting drinkers to the risks posed by the "dangerous" cocktails - such as Jager Bombs, Speedball and Thug Passion - which are typically a cocktail of spirits and energy drinks such as Red Bull.

Popular with young drinkers and served in pubs and clubs across South Australia, a US study has found that the cocktails double a drinker's risk of being hurt or sexually assaulted compared with drinkers of regular alcohol.

Last Sunday, a girl in her late teens was treated at Adelaide's Queen Elizabeth Hospital after drinking a mixture of alcohol and five cans of Red Bull.

She recorded a blood alcohol level of 0.19 - almost four times the legal driving limit. Red Bull has around 80mg of caffeine per 250ml can, equivalent to an average cup of coffee, and is banned due to health concerns in France, Norway, Denmark, Uruguay and Iceland.

Ms Kanck said the cocktails were a menace.

"Nightclubs are mixing vodka and other spirits with energy drinks like Red Bull and Lucozade - that keeps young people dancing and drinking all night," she said.

"But research in the US and Brazil shows the energy boost in drinks like Red Bull makes people feel less drunk than they really are.

"This is verging on legalised drink spiking."

A survey of more than 4000 US college students by the Wake Forest University in November last year found that a quarter had recently consumed energy cocktails.

That group were twice as likely to be hurt or injured after drinking, twice as likely to need medical attention and drank up to 36 per cent more than other students.

The cocktail drinkers also faced double the risk of either taking sexual advantage of someone else, or being taken advantage of themselves, the survey found.

Ms Kanck said: "We need a public awareness campaign, warnings against mixing the drinks with alcohol, on the cans' ink labels ... and a review of the Liquor Licensing Code of Practice to make sure nightclubs are not putting young people at risk."

AMA state president Dr Peter Ford said the stimulants in the energy drinks masked the effects of alcohol, putting drinkers at greater risk of death through excess alcohol consumption.

"These drinks have a similar effect to amphetamines because they overcome the sedating effect of alcohol," Dr Ford said.

"It is a dangerous mixture because it impairs people's judgment. And one of the most common causes of death with excessive alcohol consumption is people inhaling their own vomit, especially those who go to sleep in the wrong position or are involved in car accidents."

The Australian Hotels Association said it had been unaware of the potential health risks posed by the trendy cocktails.

SA Minister for Substance Abuse Gail Gago said there was "no evidence to suggest that these drinks enhance the effects of intoxication of alcohol". "This should not divert attention from the main issue of people drinking too much alcohol and that remains the key focus," she said.

Red Bull Australia said the energy drink was "especially developed for periods of increased mental and physical exertion".

Red Bull head of communications Janelle Neath said the adverse effects of alcohol on human health and behaviour were "due to the alcoholic drink, not the mixer, be it cola, orange juice, tonic or whatever else is mixed".

News.com.au
 
So she digs the MDMA but disses the booze?

Sounds like my kinda lady ;)

I wonder if she's an attractive person as well...you know...just to round out the package!

"It is a dangerous mixture because it impairs people's judgment. And one of the most common causes of death with excessive alcohol consumption is people inhaling their own vomit, especially those who go to sleep in the wrong position or are involved in car accidents."

Isn't it alcohol that impairs people's judgement? I've tried the energy drink/alcohol mix (during Schoolies last year), I didn't think the caffeine over-rode the alcohol much at all, but it could just be me. Caffeine is a pretty weak stimulant after all.
 
A strong cuop of coffee puts as much stress on the body and heart as MDMA. Im talking clean lab MDMA though. Not satreet stuff, or pills.

At schoolies I saw youngsters drinking on the bus those small double shot vodka+guranana cans.. Those green cans what are they called? They taste like redbull mixed with lemonade and they drink them in seconds, even though they have 50-80mg caffeine in them. They are sold in 4 packs or cartons and I reckon they should be banned if clean MDMA isnt sold to 18+
 
are you talking about the "legal" ecstasy they come in tiny bottles that go down in one shot bought in bong shops or cans of pulse?
 
Mr Blonde said:
I wonder if she's an attractive person as well...you know...just to round out the package!

Here's a picture (for your curiosity) from the democrats website. I think it's a fairly old picture because (no offense to her) she looked older when I remember seeing her (back in 06). edit: this is a more recent shot.
sk%20portrait%20Aussie%20Kanck.jpg



She was at a rave I attended a few years ago ... I highly agreed with her ideas about the rave culture and ecstasy. I also agree with this call. Caffeine can be fatal at high doses, yet people will drink countless alcohol/caffeine beverages totally regardless of this. One drink (a redbull for example) is designed to be a strong dose of caffeine. Five energy drinks is just way too much caffeine and no one should be consuming that much. I think a better idea would be to make alcohol/caffeine drinks that have a significantly lower amount of caffeine in them. People would still get the stimulating effect after a few drinks, but they wouldn't be consuming dangerous amounts (not of the caffeine anyway).
 
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I always thought if MDMA became legal, it would be in drink form. with maybe 20mg per drink. along wqith other chemicals to make you maybe throw up like they put in cough cyrup if you go and skull 15 drinks in ten minutes to try and get the full effect of the drug... but then that could cause problems with people choking on their vomit, and people would be mixing these mdma drinks with alcohol as well
 
As opposed to how they are now, illegal, with maybe 20mg per pill along with other chemicals to maybe make you throw up? ;)

In all seriousness though, I've also thought about just how certain drugs would be marketed should they become legal. I too imagined them to be in drink form, at low doses (such as 10mg meth in an energy drink). Higher concentrated forms would ofcourse also be available (anyone for a 120mg shot of mdma?) but, like high strength spirits, I think this would take a backseat to the less concentrated forms - like beer for example.

I think many people find it more enjoying spending time actually consuming a drug. For example, people are (generally) more inclined to spend a few hours drinking beers than they would be to just skull an equivalent (alcohol percent wise) amount of vodka.
 
Interesting idea you two got there about how illegal drugs would be marketed once they are legalized. I was thinking that at first there would probably be no advertising, and they'd only be available in state-run outlets or in pharmacies. But doses? I never considered that before...I guess that they would be pushing the lower dose stuff...which sucks for us people who actually know what we're doing and how much we need to get off.
 
it would definitely be taxed and cost more. Like more than a normal pill but the ingredient would be very pure and if drinking in a normal pub/club setting, maybe in the taste of root beer and other flavours, it would take a fair few drinks (coming on so slowly and gradually), ending up costing you much more than a few street pills, but you will know that you're ingesting pure MDMA. People don't seem to mind paying $100 a night in a club to get 7 or 8 drinks max... This way I see much less room for abuse potential. Unless people are drinking heavily with the "E Drinks" as well..

i dont know how well it would work in practise. but whats to stop someone taking 4 x 125mg tablets from the pharmacy, if such a law became real, and they were used to 40-50mg pills with some adulterant in it.


like alcohol still, there would be a black market for it. Maybe selling pure MDMA crystals for people to have their own doses.. Maybe street pills will be abolished or just become better again to compete with legal mdma... why pay xx$ for unjknown pills when you know you can feel nice effects from 4 legal "ginger beers".. it would eliminate come-up anxiety and group silence when dropping... does anyone noptice a lot of people just shut up and are waiting for their pill to kick in when they take them ? But people drinking beer, even before the alcohol effects kick in are in a social ring of conversation
 
^ Ill continue with the off topic banter - I always saw legal distribution of MDMA in the form of pills dispensed from a pharmacy, but before you are eligible you have to complete a drug education course and there would be a quota system, say 2 pills per month and you'd have to have your details recorded. On top of that there would be increased penalties for people found selling, importing and in possession of pills that aren't the ones that are being distributed through pharmacies. I know that even with all that hassle, i would still prefer to pay $70 for a pill through a pharmacy than even $2 for a pill on the streets.
 
yeah i always saw that option too. but maybe a check of psych records or some type of psychiatric interview as well

i still think 2 per month is a bit much. if it were that way you could stash up and have a good night though ;)
 
Yeah two a month would suck shit, but hey, if it's pure MDMA I guess you gotta keep ur usage low to ensure a minimal of neurological damage.

Plus, maybe they would hand out SSRI's as well so that after a few hours after dosing, people could take that and further help to minimize damage.

Also, they could hand out pamphlets to people who buy MDMA so that they were aware of preloading/post loading methods that help with comedowns and the blues you get in the days after.

But what would you think would happen if substances like heroin, cocaine, LSD, etc...were legalized? I'm guessing there would be lot more stringent controls on those...even though LSD if probably one of the safest drugs in the world.
 
Here's a picture (for your curiosity) from the democrats website. I think it's a fairly old picture because (no offense to her) she looked older when I remember seeing her (back in 06). edit: this is a more recent shot.

Mmm...a bit old for my tastes, but since we seem to share a lot of common interests, who knows? I can see myself making a move on her ;)

Just her, me, some romantic candles...a bit of molly for each of us and we'll see where it goes!
 
Sounds pretty silly if you ask me. My buddy used to carry around a portable breathalyser and 0.20 was a pretty standard reading at the end of the night. It's not life threateningly high - or even I'm going to puke high but it's about the level where you feel pretty smashed.

Same with the caffeine levels. Five coffees - are you kidding me? 90% of programmers (and most of Southern Italy...) would be dead if that were dangerous.

If there is a danger I see, it's the diuretic combination of caffeine and alcohol to possibly cause dehydration in a dance situation. But unlike something like old fashioned coffee drinks, the red bulls at least have a decent amount of liquid.
 
^ Statistically it probably isnt that bad but it still aint good for you. Mind you, coming from someone who will on occasion smash 10+ jagerbombs, I can tell you that makes me feel worse the next day than any comedown/hangover ive ever had.
 
A strong cuop of coffee puts as much stress on the body and heart as MDMA. Im talking clean lab MDMA though. Not satreet stuff, or pills.

Um, thats just not true. Caffeine affects the heart indirectly, through DA realease due to adenosyne aganosim, whereas MDMA works more directly on dopamine which will raise blood pressure and heart rate. A bit of caffeine is harmless really- I drink about 6-8 cups a day- maybe 800mg or thereabouts of caffeine- and love it. Though coffee withdrawl headaches suck.
 
yossarian_is_sane

I am not one that gets hangovers much - mainly by being careful with hydration. I suspect that it's the combined diuretic effect of the coffee/alcohol that's doing it combined with the sugar. Take a few minutes and force yourself to drink a glass or two of water or Gatorade before heading to bed - it really helps.
 
^ I do indeed practise this harm-minimisation concept. I just drink far too much for my bodyweight, that's all. :\
 
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