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News - SA man caught amassing cold-and-flu tablets - 3rd August 05

Fry-d-

Fry-d-

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SA man caught amassing cold-and-flu tablets

An Adelaide man has been arrested and charged by Perth police for allegedly amassing cold-and-flu tablets for the production of methylamphetamine.

Police allege Michael James Silver went to several chemists in Perth this week and bought enough cold-and-flu tablets to make 30 kilograms of speed.

He was charged under new misuse of drugs legislation, which allows police to arrest anyone suspected of using medication to make illicit drugs.

The 32-year-old appeared in court this afternoon.

He was not required to plead to the charges.

He has been remanded in custody.

From ABC news online.
Click to expand...

I'm sure more information will come available soon about this story but it seems this is it at the moment. It seems this man was under watch as soon as he landed in Perth and then proceeded to go chemist shopping for 2 days. They showed an estimated 11kg's of telfast and Sudafed he'd collected in that time.

Under the new laws they can arrest and charge you just for having possession of a precursor chemical without a good excuse.
 
i was just looking for a web site to post this report on..

he said aparantley collected 11kg from 40 chemists!
that is impressive,
makes you wonder how much the professional shoppers collect.
the only reason they were able to get him (aparantley) was a undercover operation, and they started following him as soon as he got off the plane at the airport.
i find it off they did not wait until he gave the tablets to the cook before arresting him..
or possibly the tablets were going back to south Australia..
 
I think you can assume this was a professional shopper. The reason they were watching him is because he's been caught doing it before. Its only now they've changed the law its actually illegal to possess the tablets and they can charge him for it.
 
OoOooOo another Pseudo-runner....


There are so many people doing it is not funny. Good luck trying to catch, because its mums and dads, white collar workers....teenagers....everyone doing it.


I thought telfast had a few gaaks in it...hmmmmmm
 
Just out of curiosity how much pseudoephedrine is needed to produce 30Kg of Meth. That sems like an aweful lot of meth if he just visited 40 chemists.
 
When I heard this on the news last night I couldn't understand how you get 30 kg of speed out of 11 kg of cold'n'flu tabs -- but then I've no idea how speed is cooked.

It was also strange that there was no mention that any of the chemists were charged with anything.
 
They said 30kg of street grade speed. Not 30kg of pure methamphetamine.
 
does anyone have a idea how many sudafed tablets would be required to make say 2 lines of speed? or 1gram (I'm not sure of exact weights)
I'm just curious when i pay my money how many sudafed tablets it would of taken to extract what i was about to consume..

maybe phase_dancer can help me out with this one.
 
Last edited:
^ p_d will help probably help you by deleting this post. Asking how many sudafed you need to manufacture speed is a bit borderline with regards to the posting guidelines
 
you guys can deleate or edit if need be.
im just curious how many tablets would be in a line....
if it does breach the rules then i have no problem it been deleated.
 
Im sure p_d can clear this up much better than I but here goes.
From what I _READ_ 1 g of pseudoephedrine usually results in about ~0.9 g of methamphetamine in perfect circumstances. The chemical structure is not that different at all so no extra mass is added by the reduction (mass is lost yes?).
However most illicit drugs are made in less that perfect circumstances as yields can be lower than 50%. Even in a lab environment performed by skilled chemist a perfect reduction will not result in the amount I guessed above. Perhaps a 70% to 80% yield would be considered good. So Stuart if you do the maths on that you have your answer....

(I do hope this is not really against the guidelines!)
 
thanks, I'm just trying to do the maths on how much cold and flu tablets started off to make the product you are about to consume. (i have no problem this post getting deleted if it breaches guide lines.) i just wanted to learn about this topic.
 
^^ Not bad mongman

Pseudoephedrine has an -OH group attached to the first carbon off the aromatic ring. As this is reduced in the process of making methamphetamine, there is a corresponding loss in the molecular weight when going from pseudo and meth. This amounts to the atomic weight of Oxygen (~16 grams/ mole)

1 mole of pseudoephedrine HCl = 201.70 grams

1 mole of Methamphetamine HCl = 185.70 grams

So, as a theoretical maximum, 1 gram of of pseudo = 1/ 201.7 = 4.9578 x 10 ^ -3 moles

therefore, 4.9578 x 10 ^-3 moles x 185.7 = 0.92 grams of methamphetamine.


Of course you are correct in saying that the theoretical max is rarely if ever achieved in practice. If the hypo/ I2 method is used the normal figures are likely to be as you've stated i.e. 50% up to ~70% max, maybe higher but I'd say that's definitely not common. However, other methods such as Birch reduction, hydride reduction or catalytic hydrogenation may give better yields if the chemist was experienced enough .

Th other thing that needs to be considered is how well the pseudo is extracted. If the end result is not pure or close to pure pseudo, other substances present may interfere with the reaction.

Pharmaceutical companies have used blockers for years in an attempt to make extraction more difficult. However, cooks seem to have always been able to get around this. At present these companies are developing very sophisticated means of preventing extraction. If they are successful - lots of pressure from the US gov at present for them to be successful - then this source of pseudo will no longer be suitable for making speed. So the bans can be lifted and we'll all breathe a lot easier ;)
 
As an added note. As long as this talk of yields does not head into discussing specifics of the synthesis, then I'm pretty sure this is OK. It's a fine line though, as chem discussion on this level is normally only permitted when discussing impurities relating to manufacture.
 
Even slightly impure pseudo will greatly affect the end result.

Pure Pseudo + Perfect Cook + Pure RP/I = Pure gear.
 
Cooks may soon be using pseudoephedrine containing syrups and other exotic multi ingredient formulations from what I hear. The removal of the desired precursor is apparently much easier than was believed. This could easily mean that chemists will find it harder and harder to keep track of suspicious purchases as the range of suspect products skyrockets.
I suspect that purity of the end product could be effected as cooks familiarise themselves with new methods. Potentially this could have many detrimental effects on the health of users.. As p_d has said in so many of these threads, its not the amount of methamphetamine in your powder that you need to worry about, its what the rest of the stuff is.
 
Gaaks :p

You just have to see what each substance is soluable and insoluable and work from there! Just basic chemistry really.
 
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