NEWS: Drug researchers concerned by rise in ecstasy use
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Christian Soldier
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Re: Re: NEWS: Drug researchers concerned by rise in ecstasy use
Mate people can definatley get addicted to ecstasy. If you let any drug-addiction get a hold of you, it can ruin your life. Two of my mates have been in jail because they pop pills almost everyday and end up commiting many crimes to support their habits.
Not to mention the shit-load of kids who feel they need to pop every weekend to 'feel the love'.
hazzard002 said:
Mate people can definatley get addicted to ecstasy. If you let any drug-addiction get a hold of you, it can ruin your life. Two of my mates have been in jail because they pop pills almost everyday and end up commiting many crimes to support their habits.
Not to mention the shit-load of kids who feel they need to pop every weekend to 'feel the love'.
phase_dancer
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So long as we have laws pertaining to liability as we do with other pharmaceuticals, and taxes as presently applied to alcohol, I can see legal ecstasy being a logistics nightmare for any company wanting to produce and market it. I'm not saying it couldn't or wouldn't be done, but it certainly wouldn't be as simple as just knocking them out at a few dollars each.
Firstly there's the consideration that no company can patent or own production rights in any exclusive fashion. Unless legislation was passed, it would be an open generic type compound where any company could market it.
In fact, as I see it, what might initially be seen by some people as a lucrative business opportunity could in fact be a hot potato in terms of profit made vs insurance and claims potential. There may not be much developmental research to pay for, but I'd bet the companies in question would need to establish their own safety evaluations, which in turn would involve clinical trials (read: big bucks). I can't see any government funding for this, so the costs would be passed on to the consumer as they are for all pharmaceuticals. Insurance costs for companies marketing a drug like MDMA, with it's highly publicised social and health associated problems would be astronomical.
So, including the required internal and clinical trials costs, if the end product is taxed anything like ethanol is, you can forget about the cost being much lower than the $** or so / pill MDMA presently sells at.
200L of 95% ethanol without a tax exemption permit = ~$*****-00
200L of 95% ethanol with a tax exemption permit = ~$***-00
Effectively that amounts to a applied tax rate of approximately 1720%
[Shit!! in the excitement of writing this I broke forum rules of no price discussion. [smacks own hand] Oh well, with the edit you can still get the general idea....p_d]
Firstly there's the consideration that no company can patent or own production rights in any exclusive fashion. Unless legislation was passed, it would be an open generic type compound where any company could market it.
In fact, as I see it, what might initially be seen by some people as a lucrative business opportunity could in fact be a hot potato in terms of profit made vs insurance and claims potential. There may not be much developmental research to pay for, but I'd bet the companies in question would need to establish their own safety evaluations, which in turn would involve clinical trials (read: big bucks). I can't see any government funding for this, so the costs would be passed on to the consumer as they are for all pharmaceuticals. Insurance costs for companies marketing a drug like MDMA, with it's highly publicised social and health associated problems would be astronomical.
So, including the required internal and clinical trials costs, if the end product is taxed anything like ethanol is, you can forget about the cost being much lower than the $** or so / pill MDMA presently sells at.
200L of 95% ethanol without a tax exemption permit = ~$*****-00
200L of 95% ethanol with a tax exemption permit = ~$***-00
Effectively that amounts to a applied tax rate of approximately 1720%
[Shit!! in the excitement of writing this I broke forum rules of no price discussion. [smacks own hand] Oh well, with the edit you can still get the general idea....p_d]
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ayjay
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^I think the tax argument is particulalry apt with respect to tobacco. Payment to grower per bail is about a 50th of the tax per bail. Apparently, Phillip Morris had trouble buying their quota off Aussie tobacco growers last harvest because so much had already been sold into the "chop chop" market!!
You can buy legal MDMA for research purposes - I know someone who did his PhD on MDMA and bought from Israel. It was a lot more expensive than the illegal variety!!
So you can't tax an illegal product, which might keep the price down - unless you count police keeping your stash and not charging you as "tax"
You can buy legal MDMA for research purposes - I know someone who did his PhD on MDMA and bought from Israel. It was a lot more expensive than the illegal variety!!
So you can't tax an illegal product, which might keep the price down - unless you count police keeping your stash and not charging you as "tax"
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phase_dancer
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Yeah, chemical suppliers have MDMA listed at ridiculous prices. No doubt some of this is reflective of the security & insurance cost of storing and supplying a prohibited substance, but one also wonders whether a high price might be simply to act as a deterrent to those who might think they can beat the system i.e. to successfully falsify relevant documentation required to purchase.
I've heard it said that analysts and researchers in Australia who require a pure source of MDMA have found it easier to purchase overseas, as the red tape associated with purchasing locally is far more involved.
I've heard it said that analysts and researchers in Australia who require a pure source of MDMA have found it easier to purchase overseas, as the red tape associated with purchasing locally is far more involved.
endlesseulogy
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Re: Re: Re: NEWS: Drug researchers concerned by rise in ecstasy use
It might be very easy for alot of us to judge little kids and their MDMA habits and their constant search to "feel the love", however we always seem to fail to look at the root cause of there not being any love existing in the relms of ordinary waking consciousness. We live in a uncaring world. You see it everywhere. Hope is lost. Young people are members of a consumerist society where everything is bland and robotic. Kids who reject this way of living need an escape. They need to goto a relm where they will be accepted and loved nomatter what or who they are. The drug addiction issue goes right into the very heart of society. I bascially consider people who become addicted to drugs more spiritually awake then your average person, even though they dont or refuse it acknowledge it. They are able to see the corruption and negitivity in the game of life and they look for a cure, whereas your average carefree person dosnt even know a game exists. These people tend to think everything is rosey and hold alot of trust in authority. The only solution to addiction is creating a better world. A world where people make eye contact. A world where people greet each other in the street. A world where everyone is respected and given a fair go. A world were people dont have a look of utter suicide while sitting on the train. A world where people are not scared of the future. Everyday normal waking consciousness can be like Ecstacy. We just refuse to get it.
Also, if MDMA was as cheap as a box of smarties.. you reckon people would need to steal?
Who creates the problem Christian Soldier?
Christian Soldier said:
It might be very easy for alot of us to judge little kids and their MDMA habits and their constant search to "feel the love", however we always seem to fail to look at the root cause of there not being any love existing in the relms of ordinary waking consciousness. We live in a uncaring world. You see it everywhere. Hope is lost. Young people are members of a consumerist society where everything is bland and robotic. Kids who reject this way of living need an escape. They need to goto a relm where they will be accepted and loved nomatter what or who they are. The drug addiction issue goes right into the very heart of society. I bascially consider people who become addicted to drugs more spiritually awake then your average person, even though they dont or refuse it acknowledge it. They are able to see the corruption and negitivity in the game of life and they look for a cure, whereas your average carefree person dosnt even know a game exists. These people tend to think everything is rosey and hold alot of trust in authority. The only solution to addiction is creating a better world. A world where people make eye contact. A world where people greet each other in the street. A world where everyone is respected and given a fair go. A world were people dont have a look of utter suicide while sitting on the train. A world where people are not scared of the future. Everyday normal waking consciousness can be like Ecstacy. We just refuse to get it.
Also, if MDMA was as cheap as a box of smarties.. you reckon people would need to steal?
Who creates the problem Christian Soldier?
phase_dancer
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^ Great post.
chugs
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I would have thought the reining philosophy on this matter was that any powerful psychoactive would be manufactured and distributed by the government?
Although I’m as anti-prohibition as the next entity it would be a serious mistake to allow corporations to manufacturer & distribute. They're little better then the people who presently profit from the drug trade. People would believe the anti-prohibition movement was being crazy, and expedient, in supporting the concept that the free capitalistic market should be allowed to manufacture & market these drugs. Many people would perceive it to be a free for all market with coke available for school kids to buy from their corner store......and vote against any proposal without ever caring for the details on regulatory control.
hear hear - I am so sick to death of people blaming drugs for the mistakes they make. Only the people who truly need help blame drugs for their mistakes & problems.
endlesseulogy
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Why ... ? do you live in the reality tunnel of every single person on earth with a drug addiction problem? That seems like a very objective and unrealistic statement to me. Should we blame rape victims for leaving their houses? Should we tell people with panic attacks that its all in their head and that they can switch it off? Different sceanario same energy mate.
Im not saying people should blame drugs, im saying people should blame society and the way society deals with the drug issue on a whole
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Leprechaun
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Regarding there being a decrease in the energy of rave parties in the last few years... I would say this is a complete untruth based only on personal experience. From where I stand the energy level is much greater.
How are you quantifying energy levels?
1. The amount of people dancing.
2. The time which people spend dancing.
3. The amount of parties on offer.
4. The vibe of the parties you feel.
Note on number 4 - A party and vibe are what you make. Whenever I am in a party mood, I go out and share my energy. If I am not in a party mood, why bring the party down!
How are you quantifying energy levels?
1. The amount of people dancing.
2. The time which people spend dancing.
3. The amount of parties on offer.
4. The vibe of the parties you feel.
Note on number 4 - A party and vibe are what you make. Whenever I am in a party mood, I go out and share my energy. If I am not in a party mood, why bring the party down!
endlesseulogy
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Ofcourse the energy is still there.. Infact i would agree with you in saying that the energy level is greater.. Sorry, maybe I should have been a bit clearer in getting my point accross..... its just a different TYPE of energy from what ive seen. Esspecially in relation to drugs and drug taking.
There are more people there for the misdirected and over-indulgent approach to drug taking. Less people there for the music alone. Some may call this progression etc, however i am merely pointing out that it is for this reason; that individuals end up falling into the traps of over-use and addiction. The people involved in the commercial rave scene and to a certain extent the more underground scene; should encourage intelligent drug use, or, im afraid that one day there will be no scene left.
I understand the days of PLUR are now over and gone, however a new paradigm must emerge to take its place to fill the void. A paradigm with direction and cause, rather then a party based purely on drugs drugs drugs drugs.
There are more people there for the misdirected and over-indulgent approach to drug taking. Less people there for the music alone. Some may call this progression etc, however i am merely pointing out that it is for this reason; that individuals end up falling into the traps of over-use and addiction. The people involved in the commercial rave scene and to a certain extent the more underground scene; should encourage intelligent drug use, or, im afraid that one day there will be no scene left.
I understand the days of PLUR are now over and gone, however a new paradigm must emerge to take its place to fill the void. A paradigm with direction and cause, rather then a party based purely on drugs drugs drugs drugs.
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Cheshire Cat ^..^
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For me, that's exactly the problem. That's the sign of change. It's just over. People are over it. What a shame.endlesseulogy said:
BigTrancer
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Please lets try to keep posts at least semi-related to the topic.
BigTrancer
Ina Light
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Endless Eulogy, that was some very insightful posts you put together. And I totally agree 100% on your reasoning for drug addiction, the mechanisms and the solution. I have often pondered the same subject and came up with the same solutions. As we get more pressure on our everyday lives, and as you say, the results of brainwashing people into consumer units, and a whole lot of other engineered societal factors; there will indeed be an even greater demand for drugs, and especially ones that can produce the love and sense of well being that ecstacy produces. Everything starts with the inner landscape of an individual, but the shallow superficial lifestyle that is subtlely promoted actually does nothing to promote inner health or a real sense of belonging and being truly in touch with oneself. Whatever is deemed to be 'cool' becomes a fad, and drugs in that regard are no different to all the other fads that sweep over the masses. As you say Endless Eulogy, if everyone took MDMA for the therapeutic beneifits of opening internal dialogue and self reflection then you could assume that there would be some awesome consequences to the rising use of MDMA in our community. Unfortunately, most of the young people into ecstacy at present are concerned with how fucked up they can get and totally miss the magic of that other side of MDMA that people who are a little more in touch with themselves experience. Until we, as a society, can learn to honour and nourish all of the members of our society and become more interested in expressing unconditional love, there will always be a drug problem, because there will always be drug abusers. This is not really a new problem, and is societies problem, which makes it everyones problem because we are all members of society. Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed your thought Endless, and it's good to see someone else who sees the same issues as myself.