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Heroin "New" Mex brown powder-type vs. "older" black tar

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As rach states, brown powder Heroin is the original product coming out of Mexican poppy fields going back to pre-WWII era. Black tar is the 'new' product. As far as weight-potency, brown powder has to be more potent and 'clean' than black tar by default. Comparing the manufacturing processes would bear this out. I highly doubt Mexican heroin is making its way in large amounts to Europe, or anywhere else but the US and possibly Canada. If I recall right, DEA reports put Mexican brown powder primarily in East Coast cities, where it competes as a small competitor to the majority Colombian powder heroin and to a much lesser extent the little bits of SEA powder that still trickles into the East Coast.
 
What was funny about this stuff when I first got it was some people wouldn't like the powder cause they thought it wasn't as good as the tar (go figure).
So, i would always take a couple g's from every batch and breath on it to make it look like tar. I swear, I could give someone their stuff as powder, then give them the same thing but breathed on so it looked like normal tar, the next day and all of a sudden it was better.
I'd say something like "Oh, I just got something new in, you'll like it", but ofcourse it was the same. Always made me laugh.
 
The lighter brown mexican dope(usually nicknamed "gunpowder") is pretty much the exact same stuff as the black tar H. the difference is that it is dehydrated completely so it fluffs up into brownish powder. If you breath on it enough it will turn black/brown and gum up into what you usually think of when you think of "tar".

The black glassy tar is usually this gunpowder form of mexican dope cut with lactose or even coca-cola syrup used in fountain soda machines. The glassier and more clear or shiny it is the more sugar and less good stuff is in there. So you think you are getting this nice big chunk but its really more like rock candy sugar with a little bit of dope in it. The "gunpowder" or lighter brown powder is usually stronger then the tarnish stuff by a decent amount.

The mexican's are also learning to make true number #4 "china white" style dope or the same type of tope you get on the east coast in the glassine stamp wax baggies. At least I have seen it recently in the bay area. It costs 3x what black tar costs but it worth 210x as far as potency and actual quality is.

I believe the mexies are just getting a little more clever and hiring or building some labs in the states and using the tar that comes across and doing a final processing step on it in the pay to purify it into true #4 because it converts weight for weight only losing about 15% of its weight but able to be sold for vastly higher prices.

Anyway, if you can breath on it and it starts to turn brown/black and gums up its still just tar, higher quality tar bout still just tar. If you get lighter brown powder or white powder and try to breath on it and it does not start to look like tar then you know you have some real #4.

just some info from someone in the know strictly for curiosities sake ;)
 
Znegative said:
That also makes no sense about bieng immune to iv use as opposed to vaporizing, makes no sense!
Actually it would make perfect sense with water insoluble freebase #2 heroin, commonly made in Afghanistan. An American use to tar/#4powder might conclude freebase heroin is useless or they got ripped off if they didn't add an acid to make a water soluble salt before IVing it, maybe that's why Afghan dope hasn't caught on here in the US.

Most powder H west of the Mississippi is probably cut up tar, it doesn't take much cut to make it a powder, so it can be stronger than much of the tar out there. Although, the DEA has claimed Mexico has been taking more interest in making white powder heroin, if it's made it probably only shows up in New England area where powder is expected by users.A mystery to me is how Colombian Heroin still makes up half of the heroin seized, yet it is claimed that cultivation of poppys has gone way down in Colombia. Is the UN and the DEA wrong about Colombian poppy acerage, are they getting really high yeilds from what little they do make, or are they using guerilla farming that is evading detection? Did Colombia stockpile heroin for rainy days, or could Mexican or Afghan heroin be more common in the US than is believed or publically admitted by the UN and DEA?

I wonder if Mexico always made tar, when they made powder it was almost always 30% mannitol cut before being smuggled across the border. Tar first showed up in the early 80's, purity was in the 70-high 80s%, lots of people OD on it. Mexico was knocked out of the heroin production game in the late 70s, Mexico lanched a crackdown even more extensive than the one going on today. The cartels were forced to smuggle SE Asian heroin instead, even going as far as to dye it brown so it looked the same as their product. Their also seems to have been a crackdown in southeast Asia around the time tar showed up. Afghan dope also started to appear in the 80s, in the US it was called Iranian dope because it was widely believed on the streets that it came from Iran because Iran was big on the news at that time and it was rumored that the Shah or others in his govenment were responsible for the brown #2 heroin showing up. I think the purity was much higher when sold retail, maybe the Mexicans decided to start selling black tar uncut to get back into the game when the 70s crackdown ended.

How tar is produced is also a mystery to me. I can find all kinds of stuff on how it's made in Afganistan or Burma, but almost nothing on how tar is made. I do know it's usually calculated as the hydrochloride salt on microgram, not the meconate so it isn't acetylated opium. The stuff reaks of vineger too. I wonder if the hydrochloride comes from Acetyl Chloride, making morphine hydrochloride from base beforehand(I think it smells too vinegery, so I suspect they just boil off the chemical used in the conversion and scrap up the residue) or from the Robertson-Gregory process, which involves making morphine hydrochloride from opium then making heroin from it. I think all heroin might end up as tar if it's not quenched with sodium carbonate like in afghanistan, or also decolorized with activated charcoal and crystallized in ethanol/ether like how it's done in Burma or how the French Connection did.
 
I guess so but usually anything freebase product doesn't break down at all in water. If you draw up a clear solution and your heroin is brown than I would think that it's either freebase and add something acidic, and if that didn't work I guess I would trash it or try and smoke it. I guess I've never seen freebase heroin before though
 
Just thought I'd come back to say that there's some very good information in this thread.

Here's a picture of the dope I believe we're talking about. It's a small amount because well, I did the rest of the bag. =D

NSFW:

img0243xc.jpg


Pharmacist, good to see another Minneapolis-ite(? LOL) on Bluelight! ;)
That is seriously dead on IDENTICAL to the shit I was picking up right up until the day I quit very recently!
That may or may not be the exact stuff I was getting, but if it was, it fucking ruled my world!

I didn't get a chance to read all your posts, so I don't know what you had to say about the quality.
Who knows, maybe it is from the same source?
We may never know ;)

Anyways, its always nice to see some fellow Minneapolis dwellers on here!
What's up! :D
 
^That shit looks like the mud I've seen, it's tar cut into powder. Does it turn back into tar when you breath on it?
 
^That shit looks like the mud I've seen, it's tar cut into powder. Does it turn back into tar when you breath on it?

Yeah it gets gooey/hardens sometimes if you breathe on it.
When I used to smoke it (long long time ago before needle to arm introduction) I would put it in the freezer after it got gooey to make the stuff easy to transer from bag to tinfoil ;)

The good old days.
I remember sometimes, if it had been in a Mexican's mouth before I copped, this shit would ALREADY been all tarred up and gooey.
YUM!
 
All I ever get is powder in stamped bags in the east. Will I miss this stuff if I move west or is it about the same quality.
 
Actually it would make perfect sense with water insoluble freebase #2 heroin, commonly made in Afghanistan. An American use to tar/#4powder might conclude freebase heroin is useless or they got ripped off if they didn't add an acid to make a water soluble salt before IVing it, maybe that's why Afghan dope hasn't caught on here in the US.
Afghan dope hasn't really caught on because there isn't a smuggling network yet, and the SA and Mexican dope meets the demand. If that dope went away, I'm sure the Afghan stuff would start appearing here. There would certainly be the demand and potential profit for it.

It's also interesting that the dope they get in Vancouver isn't tar, but as soon as you go south to Seattle/Portland, it's tar. I want to say the Vancouver stuff comes from SEA, but I can't remember for sure if that's what I read.

How tar is produced is also a mystery to me. I can find all kinds of stuff on how it's made in Afganistan or Burma, but almost nothing on how tar is made. I do know it's usually calculated as the hydrochloride salt on microgram, not the meconate so it isn't acetylated opium. The stuff reaks of vineger too. I wonder if the hydrochloride comes from Acetyl Chloride, making morphine hydrochloride from base beforehand(I think it smells too vinegery, so I suspect they just boil off the chemical used in the conversion and scrap up the residue) or from the Robertson-Gregory process, which involves making morphine hydrochloride from opium then making heroin from it. I think all heroin might end up as tar if it's not quenched with sodium carbonate like in afghanistan, or also decolorized with activated charcoal and crystallized in ethanol/ether like how it's done in Burma or how the French Connection did.
Yeah, there isn't much info about tar heroin. And from what I've read and heard, you're also right as why it's tar. The morphine wasn't completely cleaned up and they don't bother with some of the extra refining steps once it's acetylated.
 
Anyone have any idea why this new brand of tar would give me a mad histamine reaction when I shoot a good amount of it? I'm talking like a HUGE reaction. It depends on the vein, but when I go with my bicep, or even in the crook of my left arm I'll feel the rush and then start to feel really hot in the face, lips, ears, chest and hands. Not all those locations at once, like I said it depends on the vein. It's really weird.
I've had this happen to me too - doesn't seem like the histamine reactions others on here cite ie: lumping and redness around the injection site. I would get the face hotness when my shot is way concentrated, but the vein used was not a factor. It kind of scared me because I've never OD'd before and wondered if the hotness is a precursor. BTW - I got BTH. Sometimes it was powdery, sometimes it was rocked. I just thought was due to the amount of humidity in the air, because that definitely would make a bag that was powdery at time of purchase solidify if not used right away.
 
I've had this happen to me too - doesn't seem like the histamine reactions others on here cite ie: lumping and redness around the injection site. I would get the face hotness when my shot is way concentrated, but the vein used was not a factor. It kind of scared me because I've never OD'd before and wondered if the hotness is a precursor. BTW - I got BTH. Sometimes it was powdery, sometimes it was rocked. I just thought was due to the amount of humidity in the air, because that definitely would make a bag that was powdery at time of purchase solidify if not used right away.

A strong Histamine reaction, if I recall, can manifest as that feeling of 'hotness' and hot flushing in the face especially. It also can produce the "pins&needles" sensation one gets when shooting Morphine IV. When the Swiss and Dutch Diamorphine maintanence trials were going on, they initially tried offering unlimited amounts of sterile, pharmaceutical grade Morphine to inject, but among the population it was given they rejected it due to the intense Histaminic side effects. These effects are almost not present with Heroin; so Diamorphine became the standard rather than IV Morphine (an IV Morphine clinic would've cost much less tax dollars and would've been much easier logistically- just look at the costs and logistical problems associated with the Canadian IV Diamorphine maintanence trials with procuring, transporting, guarding large amounts of specially manufactured pure pharmaceutical grade Heroin). This was a factor if I recall right with Austrailia considering to try IV Hydromorphone maintanence for the same purpose; plus the importation laws regarding Heroin unique to Austrailia etc.

Some people really dig the pins&needles and flushing etc. Most do not it seems based on anecdotal reports on BL and elsewhere.
 
ahhh, I miss Hartford's tasty #4 heroin %) in the fun stamped baggies. with all those names: 666, diesel, the Red Sox logo, a little red lobster image, etc. etc. I believe most of the dope came into the city via NY NY, but who knows where my puerto rican ganstas got it from... only, kinda happy I don't have to deal with it all at the same time... sweet memories nonetheless

/romantic nostalgia
 
I've only ever seen H (#4) powder that is either an 'off-white' or a greyish/tanish-whitish color. 90% of the time its closer to 'off-white'... thats the east coast of the US i guess.... shits sooo damn expensive though I don't know how anyone can afford to be an addict these days.

Is it just me or does it seem like Mexicans just fuck up every drug they touch...Mexican brick weed, mexican black tar H, etc.... all BULLSHIT! lol Penn & Teller should do a episode on it.
 
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Im not sure if thats what the OP was referring to but its what I figured he was talking about. One of my connects gets the typical tar whereas another connect has mainly been getting this "powder tar" lately. Its powdery but tars up at the slightest bit of moisture or heat.

No, that's different. There's real Mexican powder, and then there's the really strong "powdered tar" that turns into the molasses once you breathe on it.
You can huff and puff on the real powder for like 15 minutes and it will barely gel at all.

It is some killer stuff.
 
Yeah that pic ThePharmacist has pretty much is what I get...oh whaddya know we're both from the Minneapolis area? lol But the stuff I got today from guy #2 is darker brown powder that almost has little crystal pieces in it that glisten in the sun, no joke...beautiful sight lemme tell ya
Those shiny crystal-ish chunks are opaque, aren't they? I cut myself off after New Years, so it's been nearly a month since I picked up, but I grabbed a gram a couple days prior to NYE and it was this granular brown stuff as seen in the picture, only a bit chunkier mix of roughly pea-sized rocks down to fine powder. In water it didn't turn back into a black goo, but dissolved down to a cloudy, dark tan haze when I cooked hits. To be honest though, I didn't really think it was much more potent than the black tar I'd been getting previously.

All of this was originally sourced from the same crew in South Minneapolis; I'd typically pool funds with a couple friends to get a ball or so to take back to the 'burbs with us.

Throughout this fall it was all soft black tar, but starting around late November we started getting dried chunks of tar that'd goo back up with moisture. In a couple balloons I had a chunk that'd be dried out brown and hard on one side, but soft and black on the other. Late December things finally shifted to this brown powder/granular stuff I last picked up. But in retrospect I don't think there was any increase in potency; some batches were a bit better than others, but overall it just changed appearance and consistency while not really feeling all too different.
 
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^The soft brown goop is the strongest Mexican smack from what I've tried.
I'd take it over #4 powder or opium any day.
 
Hi all.
This is my only experience with black tar heroin. For some reason (I assume its due to distance and fact gangs supplying afghan powder heroin dominate here). Where i live we never have black tar but I managed to get some black tar heroin the once when i knew someone who was quite high up in the chain in a big city. He was a smoker that didnt like to inject who loved to just smoke strong heroin like myself. When i was given it for very first time my initial thoughts was, 'what the fcuk is this crap your trying to skank me ! ' As i had never even seen it net alone heard of tar heroin back then I thought it was opium or squidgy black cannabis.

I said to him are you sure this isnt opium or hash and he said 'deffinatly not lets go for a quick smoke' he put a small bit on the foil about 0.1 of a gram. On the first line or two it bubbled up in a slightly unusual way compared to strong powder heroin and left a bit of run off but after that it smoked like a dream compared to most of our powder gear. The powder gear of him used to vary between around 30% and 66% pure was the strongist ever seized from him that was analysed. The powder heroin batch that he had before he got the tar was 59%. A former friend who used to see him too was caught with just under half an ounce of it and that came back at 59% pure after it was tested. The tar I assume was a uncut batch of tar or not cut much anyway if it was. I think the tar heroin must be a stronger product in general than the uk powder heroin. A good friend of mine who only injected ( and would not smoke it even if free odd lad lol) injected a 0.1 of a gram a 1/3 of his normal dose with powder heroin using a small amount of citric acid and he said that it was the strongest heroin he has ever had in his life too and still does to this day. It sure was the strongest heroin I've ever smoked as well and I have had stuff that was analysed at 66% pure and this tar was knoticeably stronger than that. Id swap our unpredictable strength'd powder for a consistently strong black tar heroin being a smoker myself anyday of the week. Is all mexican tar heroin smokable or is some of it for injecting only?

Yeh @ DexterMeth I am not a fan of the water soluble version's of both heroin, morphine and opium either and hate the fact that opium cannot be smoked on tin foil like black tar or H no.3. Wonder if it is possible to make opium freebase ? Salted alkaloids are just not the same to me :(

Cheers guys n gals :) peace
 
I've heard the brown or 'gun powder' was getting real popular in Portland because a lot of young folk prefer to smoke/tote than inject.
Anyone have any info on what's going down in Portland?
 
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