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NDEs (Near Death Experiences)

The idea of dying doesn't phase me in the slightest.
as it shouldn't

you were dead for 14 billion years before you were ever born, that wasn't bad, was it?

if anything, death is like returning to the norm of your existence

life is way scarier and more abnormal than death
 
With iboga as i remember.Two od's -there was only black&cold.....nothing more
 
Before I give my opinion on this, there's a caveat: I actually have technically had a near-death experience that was probably enough to produce some kind of altered state, but I'll never be able to confidently say I remember anything about it. It happened literally as I was being born, so, yeah. They say I came out suffocating to the point that I had turned blue, but obviously it turned out okay somehow (I'm not sure what they actually did for me). Interestingly, my parents say the doctor said I was the calmest baby they had ever seen. I've done some research into this subject as well and found that, intriguingly, it has been shown that that in mice, arousal from sleep caused by suffocation is mediated by activation of 5-HT2A receptors following carbon dioxide increasing the acidity of the brain and activating chemoreceptive serotonin neurons. However, for what it's worth, it seems likely that the effect is still caused by serotonin itself, not DMT. That being said, carbon dioxide itself is actually entirely established to have psychedelic-like properties when inhaled in large dosages alongside oxygen to keep the brain alive - a mixture that was known as Meduna's Mixture or just carbogen which was used in early psychedelic therapy to test if someone was ready for an experience like LSD - and if you read experience reports of carbogen, it sounds a lot like something that is not quite fractally or mindfucking like a classical psychedelic but is still at least maybe something like a more colorful, developed, and immersive form of nitrous oxide, and people have described things like returning to childhood scenarios or seeing angels alongside more abstract inner journeys. Serotonin itself doesn't usually produce things like fractals or a classical psychedelic mindfuck but of course does otherwise still overlap significantly in its receptor activations with psychedelics and is still known to be hallucinogenic in very large concentrations like the delirium experienced during serotonin syndrome, so perhaps it is still playing some role, maybe along with things like the NMDA receptor antagonism caused by the carbon dioxide (which it is known to do indirectly) modulating the experience and also making it more out-of-body.

According to what I've read in my research, it's not uncommon for people who have experienced dissociative near-death experiences on the level you're asking about to continue being more open to having spontaneous dissociative experiences in their life after that, including communicating with "entities" or "spirits" that they recognize from their near-death experiences. If I did actually have such an experience when I was born, even if I can't really remember it, it's possible my anecdotes from later in life are tainted in that way, with that kind of stuff only coming to me readily in other ways now because I already went through that kind of thing back then, but I also can't know that for sure. Just to put it out there though, I never actually even considered that something might have happened to me in that moment at all until it appeared to spontaneously come back to me in the aftermath of a powerful psychedelic trip, when I was still psychologically in pieces and suddenly felt like I was flashing back to that moment, and could feel sensations like the fear of going into the black void others have mentioned, as well as what seem like brief memories of visions of what seem like somewhat stereotypical demonic creatures around me, although when I try to think about it, it gives me the impression that they were most likely, if anything real at all, just the people standing around me in the delivery room. I later came to realize that it was very reminiscent of the feel of this music video, and honestly is probably not that uncommon for people to have lingering in their subconscious because suffocating while being born is not terribly uncommon.



I wanted to bring this up because the trip that caused that apparent flashback is actually the same one that I associate as being the trigger for a later psychotic break, and I wanted to talk about how my psychotic episodes have been near-death experience-like, but it seemed unfair to do so without pointing out that it's at least possible that that's because I've literally had a near-death experience before, even if I'll never be able to remember it with confidence because even though I have some apparent flashback memories, I was just too young at the time (as young as possible) so I'll never be able to verify them. Now that being said, regardless of whether or not my psychotic episodes have been influenced by a past near-death experience, I do think it's notable that they've been highly similar in many ways to the most stereotypical near-death experiences as well - more so than some actual near-death experience accounts I've read before - despite the fact that they definitely had nothing to do with me dying at the time. In fact, if you read around it's not hard to find medical resources that list oxygen deprivation experiences at birth as a possible risk factor for things like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder later in life, so it seems like a lot of things we consider "psychotic episodes" in general may be linked to this phenomenon of near-death experiences at birth causing susceptibility to dissociative events later in life if that really is a thing that's going on here, and again, those psychotic episodes experienced later in life clearly have nothing to do with the person actually dying, and yet you can still see the phenomenological overlaps. While it is true, for instance, that DMT is far more "psychedelic" than a near-death experience is generally described to the point that they seem dissimilar when you are only comparing one to the other, if you compare both of them to, basically, literally anything else a human being can ever experience, except for other similarly powerful drugs like ketamine and salvia, it still becomes clear that there is nothing else even remotely as similar to a near-death experience as they are, despite their differences, and to me this also seems to hold true for certain types of psychotic episodes, which often include overtly religious themes like communicating with angels or believing yourself to have been given a divine mission in life.

From what I can determine, I think this is likely basically all because what we think of as the "near-death experience" experience doesn't inherently have anything to do with death, but rather is just the subjective consequence of the activity state the brain enters during situations of extremely high stress. Theoretically, this would explain why most hallucinogenic drugs that are claimed to resemble near-death experiences are ones that have also been associated with working through some of the same neural pathways involved in stress responses, and why mental disorders that seem to distort the same systems can also sometimes produce overlapping subjective experiences which may be in part or at least in some cases because of the brain already having been sensitized by natural experiences hyperactivating those pathways in the first place, and why "near-death experiences" as the name implies don't actually require you to die, but just to get close enough that your brain enters an extremely high state of stress, which of course is going to happen if you think you're close to dying because your brain is going to go into hyperdrive trying to figure out how to make you save yourself.

That's pretty much my thoughts on them.
 
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medical resources that list oxygen deprivation experiences at birth as a possible risk factor for things like schizophrenia
I had oxygen deprivation during birth, was turning blue and required an emergency c-section. I've never looked into it, but I've always wondered if maybe I subconsciously remembered it or something. I also had a psychotic/schizo break from psychedelics later in life among other mental issues.
 
I had oxygen deprivation during birth, was turning blue and required an emergency c-section. I've never looked into it, but I've always wondered if maybe I subconsciously remembered it or something. I also had a psychotic/schizo break from psychedelics later in life among other mental issues.

Definitely sounds like it could be a thing. From what I can understand it doesn't seem to me like it'd necessarily be all the different from other forms of childhood trauma causing lasting issues of consciousness, it's just a specific, less common and acute rather than chronic but particularly extreme sort of example. This is only anecdotal but so far I've felt that tackling my mental issues as if I was trying to understand and overcome my trauma rather than just trying to suppress and get by has been the most beneficial for me, including with psychotic issues even though those are often viewed with more of a symptomatic treatment approach.
 
I multi-quoted these earlier when reading the thread but forgot to include them in my post.

On a more crass level though: 99% of all of the accounts of NDE's that I've come across paint a very rosy picture of what apparently exists on the other side. And that peace and love that everybody talks about. And one common denominator with all that I've come across is that they no longer fear death. Well to put it bluntly: why come back? Most accounts note that they were given the choice? I know for as sure as fuck what my choice would be. And I'm healthy (albeit not particularly happy I'll admit). Imagine being given the choice to stay that side or get sent back to a mangled body e.g. as a result of a car wreck or something (and then having to deal with the possible years of difficulty or agony to follow)?

It's possible to choose to stay. It does peculiar things to your sense of self. You're still not going to actually die unless your body is physically dying.

Well. That seems to be a common among these experiences. Sometimes (mostly) coupled with apparently having been informed that their purpose in life on this planet has not yet been fulfilled. I'm skeptical at best. And cannot help but wonder if that's just some type of ego phenomenon (and I don't mean that in a nasty way i.e. I just don't have quite the right word to use).

I think that's a good way of thinking about it. I dealt with a lot of abstract but relatively straightforward representations of this while psychotic. An entity explained it to me as that every conscious being was living a life on a single string of spacetime with predetermined beginning and endpoints but flexible middle ground save for certain inflexible markers along the way that differ for the consciousness in question, and those markers represent different points in their spacetime where they're destined to either fulfill part or all of their purpose in life, and be allowed to continue peacefully to the end of their life, or fail to do so, and be sent back in a time loop to try again until they manage to complete it successfully. These markers seemed to me to be related to various instinctive processes and possibly in reality just reflect things like different milestones in various types of psychological developments or perhaps be visual representations of the mechanisms involved in accessing various domains of instinctive behavior.

I've also been given a lot of lessons by entities with divine representations about how life is "supposed" to be lived. They tend to have a lot to do with basic biological reproductive logic.

I've had a few near-deaths but no interesting experiences.

What freaks me out is thinking maybe I did physically die all those times, but somehow I'm still here!! LOL 😕 Like some horrible Groundhog Day.

I really hope this is not the case and the "nothingness" is true. Even Hell might be preferrable.

This gets me too. When I was psychotic I had entities showing me how each time I "died" in the past it split the universe into a new set of possible trajectories so that I could continue on in the one where I somehow survived. But it's actually portrayed as a positive thing, like you'll actually get to live your life to the natural end even if you should've died because you just always shift into a new branch. Except that it's probably not true so I don't live my life any differently because of it.
 
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This gets me too. When I was psychotic I had entities showing me how each time I "died" in the past it split the universe into a new set of possible trajectories so that I could continue on in the one where I somehow survived. But it's actually portrayed as a positive thing, like you'll actually get to live your life to the natural end even if you should've died because you just always shift into a new branch. Except that it's probably not true so I don't live my life any differently because of it.

Portrayed by who or what as a positive thing? This is interesting.
 
I've never had a psychotic experience apart from bad paranoia. But I can sense things.. Or imagine them at least. Maybe some people don't encounter "entities"? But then, I know a few psychotic people who are full of shit. But maybe that's just their unevolved state (as Terence McKenna referred to stupid people) 😁
 
Portrayed by who or what as a positive thing? This is interesting.

The entities who were explaining it to me, who seem to all be extensions of an entity that I've been calling the "mother goddess" who claims to be the conscious aspect of our universe and have a fragment of herself embedded in the mind of all the universe's inhabitants. She was often there to try to explain what was happening to me and this aspect of life with the universe splitting into different possibilities with each death was portrayed as being part of a formula that always leads us in the best possible direction towards the unavoidable conclusion of our lives. It was explained to me that my life was constructed backward from what I think of as the end to what I think of as the beginning by branching apart my consciousness through infinite possible trajectories from the end to the equally inevitable beginning and that once it was reached it flipped backward and all the quantum information of the infinite timelines began collapsing backward too into a singular classical timeline of best fit back towards the ending. It was said that each death that broke into a different timeline where I actually survived could be thought of like this, I was encountering the points where I should have died in different ones of the infinite possible timelines but was interpreting them from the perspective of the averaged timeline where I manage to make it to the end instead as a sort of abstract karmic lesson applied to the backward life review that is actually my forward time flow.

Psychosis is strange.
 
my life was constructed backward from what I think of as the end to what I think of as the beginning

I've intuited that as well 😵‍💫




I was encountering the points where I should have died in different ones of the infinite possible timelines but was interpreting them from the perspective of the averaged timeline where I manage to make it to the end

This means it ends and we don't have to be here on this planet, alone in our heads, anymore?
 
I've intuited that as well 😵‍💫

This means it ends and we don't have to be here on this planet, alone in our heads, anymore?

My psychotic experiences and scientific rationale both agree that we'll get to the end of this life eventually. There may or may not be some wacky stuff after that to look forward to but I'm pretty sure this life doesn't last forever.
 
My psychotic experiences and scientific rationale both agree that we'll get to the end of this life eventually. There may or may not be some wacky stuff after that to look forward to but I'm pretty sure this life doesn't last forever.

I've heard a lot of bullshit from schizophrenic/psychotic people and I gotta say, as someone non-psychotic but incredibly philosophical and neurotic, with a mind that goes so fast, in so many directions, I've consoled myself with the thought "thank god Monkey Mind can't actually come up with that many thoughts at once which you are aware of".. Your entities are on point 😎
 
I've heard a lot of bullshit from schizophrenic/psychotic people and I gotta say, as someone non-psychotic but incredibly philosophical and neurotic, with a mind that goes so fast, in so many directions, I've consoled myself with the thought "thank god Monkey Mind can't actually come up with that many thoughts at once which you are aware of".. Your entities are on point 😎

We get by. :) I'm glad you got something out of it, I'm always looking to be able to relate about this stuff.
 
I've been fascinated with NDEs for awhile now. While I don't think it's unusual for people to hallucinate after suffering extreme trauma in the death process, I think it's very peculiar that nearly all of the people who report NDEs all of their experiences are nearly the same and follow the same general process.

They generally follow this order:

- A realization of death
- Out of body experience, floating above yourself looking down at the scene
- A tunnel of light, a feeling of ascending
- Arrival at another place, "the source" / "god's realm"
- Extreme euphoria and acceptance of death, excitement, love, meeting family members
- A voice/entity then tells you "It's not your time"
- Traveling back down the tunnel
- A feeling of rejoining your body, being pulled back down, then waking up

Really fascinating stuff.

What do you guys think NDEs are? I'm not part of the camp that suggests endogenous DMT is released which can account for such hallucinations. Are they even hallucinations at all? Zeitgeist? These experiences do vaguely resemble what a DMT trip is, yet nobody ever reports seeing fractals or anything psychedelic.

NDEs are relatively common, not some fluke.

Also I am specifically referring to people who were technically dead for a period of time, aka heart stopped no pulse, and then were revived. Those are the people reporting these experiences.

A lot of religious types like to grab on to NDEs as an explanation of judgement or heaven, yet there is nothing specifically religious about NDEs.
I see, mostly with cev, lots of things like fractals and such when smoking Changa, which also contains DMT...

When smoking N,N DMT i experience nothing like a nde, i do however on ketamine, it makes me see entities, travel tru tunnels, i often see myself hanging to the top of my room while i can also see myself laying on the bed at the same time, so An out of body experience, and so on...

Very interesting and strange, all my hallucinations on special k are in black and White ...

I actually was a.few times momentarly dead in my life, but i regret to say i never once had any experiences on such Times, i was Just Ko and I realized nothing and at those moments simply nothing excisted...

I tent to believe that dead is the end, that IT starts infinite nothingness, however i also feel like there should be something after dead, i Just have no clue at all about what could possibly after dead...

I only recently developed a fear for death, i used to live like nothing would take me down and if IT should do so i was happy to have lived fast and died Young, now im nothing like that anymore,.i also fear the possible suffering that one can experience in the Final stages of life...

A Nice quote by Charles bukowski; live your life so well that death itself will tremble to take you away...

No matter how i changed over the years, im still sensitive to romantic notions such as expressed by that quote...
 
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