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Opioids Naltrexone too early?

Tonyb82

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
54
Hey everyone so long story short 15+ years of relapses and being clean on and off I was banging 3 bundles a day got clean about 5 weeks ago started naltrexone about a week later like an asshole I relapsed I used again for about 4-5 days I’m now at nearly 90 hours with nothing and I feel fine the first two days were so so but nothing like in the past. It was for sure Fent/dope mix. My question is, is it too early do you think at 90 hours to start dosing naltrexone coming off such a small bender for 4-5 days? I’m anxious to get back on the naltrxone but I’ve had literally the worst experience of my life twice in the past few months my fiancé spiked my drinks with naltrexone and put me into PWD worst nightmare of my life… so I am very fearful.

I’m wondering if since it was only 4-5 days max on the Fent/dope would dosing naltrexone at maybe 10mgs after 90 hours put me into PWDs?

Please anyone with info on this would be greatly appreciated!!!

like I said I feel relatively fine right now. Just minor aches and pains and discomfort I’ve even been eating the past two days!!
 

GetMeOutOfThisCRAP

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
1,734
It's hard to tell. Doctors even get this timing wrong.

You'll know if it was too early if you feel like DEATH. For me, I'll be sweating and face crippling fatigue (can't stop sleeping all day). So I do not face PAWS in the sense that others describe as 'the worst thing ever for a junkie,' but some half PWD with some bad symptoms.

My friend tried to lie to the doctor (in front of his parents) to pretend that he was clean before the first naltrexone administration. He couldn't hide what happened after lol!

I would wait just another day just to be sure to be honest... but if you're super impatient to get clean or something or someone is forcing you to... you could now. If you faced anything horrible I don't want to be the cause of that either, though. More ppl can help.
 

Tonyb82

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
54
Thank you! Yea I was talking about precipitated withdrawls from the Fent being that it stays in your fat cells so long. Not PAWS. Ive taken subs roughly 55 hours into Fent withdrawals and put myself into PWD. That however was after months of using 3 bundles a day IV. This was short lived and only insufflated. 4-5 days. So being I’m feeling basically fine right now I was curious if taking some naltrexone to get started at 90 hours off the 4-5 day run would be aching for punishment still? I appreciate your advice and I do think I’m going to wait until at least tomorrow unless I get some others who have some info on here for me!
Thanks again!
 

Keif' Richards

Moderator: BDD, OD
Staff member
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
6,304
Location
Lowell/Charlestown, Massachusetts
I think it's important to mention the Kindling Effect here. It's a phenomenon that has been studied and proven in the context of sedative/hypnotic drugs like Alchol, Benzodiazepines and Barbiturates, but it would seem that it's something that applies to a diverse group of drugs, possibly all of them to some extent. We all remember when we first started doing Opioids. For me personally, I used Opioids regularly starting around 15 or so and it took me at least 4 months before I woke up with a real sickness.

After having been dependent on Morphine/Heroin for a decade, I can catch a serious withdrawal syndrome following just 3 days of use. So, while I get that your binge was only a few days, I think you should be really careful about dosing the Naltrexone. It's a long-acting Opioid antagonist and if you miss the mark, you're going to be wicked sick for a full day or more. I would wait as long as you possibly can, as this would be extremely shitty.
 

Tonyb82

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
54
I think it's important to mention the Kindling Effect here. It's a phenomenon that has been studied and proven in the context of sedative/hypnotic drugs like Alchol, Benzodiazepines and Barbiturates, but it would seem that it's something that applies to a diverse group of drugs, possibly all of them to some extent. We all remember when we first started doing Opioids. For me personally, I used Opioids regularly starting around 15 or so and it took me at least 4 months before I woke up with a real sickness.

After having been dependent on Morphine/Heroin for a decade, I can catch a serious withdrawal syndrome following just 3 days of use. So, while I get that your binge was only a few days, I think you should be really careful about dosing the Naltrexone. It's a long-acting Opioid antagonist and if you miss the mark, you're going to be wicked sick for a full day or more. I would wait as long as you possibly can, as this would be extremely shitty.
I agree and yea ive experienced this many times a noticed I get addicted super quick it seems even more quick each time… and while you are probably correct I have this feeling that since it was only a few days of short acting Fent and I experienced mild withdrawls for two days or so… being at the 90 hour mark + now I THINK I might be safe to dose some naltrexone. However do I want to be a lab rat? No I do not. So again I’m very fearful just very anxious to get back on it because I want to get back to my wife and dog… and I can’t until I start the naltrexone and take at least half a 50mg pill. So I wanted to start small see how I felt after an hour because usually it puts me into PWD within 20-30 minutes and then dose again after an hour if I didn’t get any adverse PWD effects.
 
Last edited:

negrogesic

Moderator: BDD, OD
Staff member
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Messages
9,396
Location
Negronesia
twice in the past few months my fiancé spiked my drinks with naltrexone and put me into PWD worst nightmare of my life

If that were me id probably ask for the ring back 🤣

She probably meant well but very ill conceived. A lifetime of such behavior? i dunno 🤔
 

Tonyb82

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
54
Yea she has had her own problems. Not exactly an angel. Don’t be judgmental.
 

Tonyb82

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
54
Sooo many people on these forums and no one has any experience with this?!
 

LivingOnValium

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Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
2,590
Location
Helsinki, Finland
My question is, is it too early do you think at 90 hours to start dosing naltrexone coming off such a small bender for 4-5 days?
So the last time you dosed heroin/fentanyl was almost 4 days ago? If you were physically dependent you should already be in a full blown withdrawal. So yes, you can safely start taking naltrexone again.
 

Tonyb82

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
54
So the last time you dosed heroin/fentanyl was almost 4 days ago? If you were physically dependent you should already be in a full blown withdrawal. So yes, you can safely start taking naltrexone again.
Yes it’s now over 100 hours since last H/Fent dose I feel basically 100% fine just still some minor stomach discomfort and cannot sleep. Nothing else though. Just so scared it will pull it out of my tissues or something and cause PWD 😤
 

Tonyb82

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
54
So at 8am I took my first quarter dose of naltrexone and usually within 30 mins max I’m sick as a dog. Not today thank god! So I’m already up to half took my second dose and all I’ve experienced so far is bad anxiety so I’ll take the remaining 25 mg (half a pill) in roughly an hour.
 

Keif' Richards

Moderator: BDD, OD
Staff member
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
6,304
Location
Lowell/Charlestown, Massachusetts
Keif richards has had a major epiphany here Tony.

I can't believe this didn't come to me sooner, but then again, Ryan is a bit of a divine hermaphrophrodite, representing the yin-yang of simultaneous intelligence and sheer stupidity. Anyway.

A very common topic that we discuss here in the forums is the induction of Buprenorphine following the use of other, typically short-acting Opioids, which would obviously include Fentanyl. As you probably know, precipitated withdrawal is the primary reason that people seek knowledge and ceratinty in this context. PW is a hellish experience. I've never actually been through it. There was one instance when I took Buprenorphine a little bit too early and definitely felt my legs start gyrating and my anxiety ramp up, but not nearly as severe as what is possible or for that matter, what I have seen.

I know you all get tired of my little stories, but they make me feel important and nobody else will listen to me in real life, so fuck off. I got court ordered to this rehab in Brockton for a month and there was a kid who came in who was on like 100mg of Methadone a day, a serious dependence by any stretch. This kid had serious issues with compulsion and was apparently willing to put anythiing in his body that might remotely affect him in any way different from his reality. He found a random pill on the floor of his bunk. He crushed it and snorted it. I didn't see any of this, I just saw the aftermath and was told the details.

I just saw this kid running, stumbling through the halls, literally screaming like a dying animal, screams that I can remember vividly to this day. He eventually stopped and began writhing on the floor like an epileptic fit, but wasn't having a seizure. He was crying and his face was soaked with the combination of tears and sweat. He tore off all of his clothes and was screaming "I'm so hot. Make it stop. Make it stop!" He was screaming and gurgling for 15 minutes before an ambulance came and scooped him up. He had pissed himself, was covered head to toe in his own vomit, sweat and lacrimation. It was honestly one of the most fucked up things that I have ever seen short of looking at dead, stiff, blue bodies... one of these a good friend, which is somehow less intense to me.

That is pretty much the end of the line; the worst possible outcome. He had snorted a 100mg Naltrexone pill that someone had cheeked and then dropped. This is just a warning. Precipitated withdrawal can be very unpleasant, but it can also be among what I imagine are the most utterly painful and miserable instances of abject suffering possible.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Which brings me to my point. When we help people induct with Buprenorphine, we are helping them for the very same reasons that you are requiring help. They are concerned about the proper time and dose of their medications based upon their history and habits.

Something that I and many of my colleagues here always recommend first, is microdosing of the Buprenorphine or, in your case, Naltrexone. The mechanics and principles are all the same. If you dose too early, you run the risk of initiating a sudden and powerful withdrawal experience.

Time is arguably the most important variable at play here, but the actual dosage of the medication is a major variable as well, arguably just as important. These medications all come in common dosages for maintenance but this means that they can't be appropriate for both maintenance and induction. It's not possible to have both in this situation.

This is why we often recommend microdosing for induction. This means making smaller dosages from your pills, strips or solutions. For instance, Buprenorphine's most common strength is arguable 8mg either in a strip or tablet. This makes people feel that this is a normal, regular or small dosage, when in reality it's a pretty potent dose of Opioid.

This is also true for your Naltrexone. It's probably appropirate for your purposes in maintenance, but that doesn't mean you can't split the pills up to test the waters without having to have either complete success or abosolute misery as your only options. You can ride the spectrum a bit between the two. Split you pill into quarters or eitghths. You can even take crumbs of Naltrexone smaller than these dosages.

Experiment with a very small, yet still perceptible dose of the Naltrexone. I would advise waiting at least 45 minutes before continuing to proceed to your standard dosage. If you feel "normal" or not sick at the 45-60 minute mark, you can then attempt to take a little bit more and follow these same guidelines. I would advise instead of taking the entire pill in one day, to start with say, a quarter of a pill today, perhaps a half a pill tomorrow followed by you making your own decisions regarding dosage based upon how you feel.

On day 3, you can call your woman and your dog and inform both of them that a reunion is in order. ;)
 

Tonyb82

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
54
Keif richards has had a major epiphany here Tony.

I can't believe this didn't come to me sooner, but then again, Ryan is a bit of a divine hermaphrophrodite, representing the yin-yang of simultaneous intelligence and sheer stupidity. Anyway.

A very common topic that we discuss here in the forums is the induction of Buprenorphine following the use of other, typically short-acting Opioids, which would obviously include Fentanyl. As you probably know, precipitated withdrawal is the primary reason that people seek knowledge and ceratinty in this context. PW is a hellish experience. I've never actually been through it. There was one instance when I took Buprenorphine a little bit too early and definitely felt my legs start gyrating and my anxiety ramp up, but not nearly as severe as what is possible or for that matter, what I have seen.

I know you all get tired of my little stories, but they make me feel important and nobody else will listen to me in real life, so fuck off. I got court ordered to this rehab in Brockton for a month and there was a kid who came in who was on like 100mg of Methadone a day, a serious dependence by any stretch. This kid had serious issues with compulsion and was apparently willing to put anythiing in his body that might remotely affect him in any way different from his reality. He found a random pill on the floor of his bunk. He crushed it and snorted it. I didn't see any of this, I just saw the aftermath and was told the details.

I just saw this kid running, stumbling through the halls, literally screaming like a dying animal, screams that I can remember vividly to this day. He eventually stopped and began writhing on the floor like an epileptic fit, but wasn't having a seizure. He was crying and his face was soaked with the combination of tears and sweat. He tore off all of his clothes and was screaming "I'm so hot. Make it stop. Make it stop!" He was screaming and gurgling for 15 minutes before an ambulance came and scooped him up. He had pissed himself, was covered head to toe in his own vomit, sweat and lacrimation. It was honestly one of the most fucked up things that I have ever seen short of looking at dead, stiff, blue bodies... one of these a good friend, which is somehow less intense to me.

That is pretty much the end of the line; the worst possible outcome. He had snorted a 100mg Naltrexone pill that someone had cheeked and then dropped. This is just a warning. Precipitated withdrawal can be very unpleasant, but it can also be among what I imagine are the most utterly painful and miserable instances of abject suffering possible.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Which brings me to my point. When we help people induct with Buprenorphine, we are helping them for the very same reasons that you are requiring help. They are concerned about the proper time and dose of their medications based upon their history and habits.

Something that I and many of my colleagues here always recommend first, is microdosing of the Buprenorphine or, in your case, Naltrexone. The mechanics and principles are all the same. If you dose too early, you run the risk of initiating a sudden and powerful withdrawal experience.

Time is arguably the most important variable at play here, but the actual dosage of the medication is a major variable as well, arguably just as important. These medications all come in common dosages for maintenance but this means that they can't be appropriate for both maintenance and induction. It's not possible to have both in this situation.

This is why we often recommend microdosing for induction. This means making smaller dosages from your pills, strips or solutions. For instance, Buprenorphine's most common strength is arguable 8mg either in a strip or tablet. This makes people feel that this is a normal, regular or small dosage, when in reality it's a pretty potent dose of Opioid.

This is also true for your Naltrexone. It's probably appropirate for your purposes in maintenance, but that doesn't mean you can't split the pills up to test the waters without having to have either complete success or abosolute misery as your only options. You can ride the spectrum a bit between the two. Split you pill into quarters or eitghths. You can even take crumbs of Naltrexone smaller than these dosages.

Experiment with a very small, yet still perceptible dose of the Naltrexone. I would advise waiting at least 45 minutes before continuing to proceed to your standard dosage. If you feel "normal" or not sick at the 45-60 minute mark, you can then attempt to take a little bit more and follow these same guidelines. I would advise instead of taking the entire pill in one day, to start with say, a quarter of a pill today, perhaps a half a pill tomorrow followed by you making your own decisions regarding dosage based upon how you feel.

On day 3, you can call your woman and your dog and inform both of them that a reunion is in order. ;)
Hey man! I really appreciate that and the story! Let me tell you something, last month my fiance suspected I relapsed. Which I did but denied. I was IVing 3 bundles a day!! That’s a LOT. Anyway let me cut to the chase, she knew I was lying and wanted to prove it so when I wasn’t aware she crushed up an entire 50mg naltrexone pill and put it in my ice coffee. Let me tell you, I’ve never ever experienced something so horrible and intense in my life. Think about that 3 bundles a day IV and then hit with 50mg naltrexone. Within 25 minutes I was not “there” I was in such severe and painful withdrawls that I left reality. I’m Bering totally true and serious. Nothing was real I was shitting my pants vomiting and throwing up at the same time while pouring out sweat and have mini seizures. I couldn’t speak I couldn’t comprehend questions, I couldn’t discern between reality and whatever else I was experiencing. It was so painful and intense I honestly have PTSD from it. When I have to take. Naltrexone (the starting dose) the fear and anxiety is so unbelievably high and intense that I begin shaking and sweating thinking about it. She did this to me TWICE in one week. So not once but twice I was thrown into what I would describe as hell.
Anyway, I appreciate your advice and comment and your story. Thank you very much! And I wish you the best!
 
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