Opioids Naltrexone to negate PAWS?

[Catman28]

Anyone know anything about this? My doctor wants to put me on naltrexone for about a month to flush the last 10 years of opiates out of me. I've been off methadone (pills from Doctor / pharmacy) for about 16 days now. I had some major surgeries go wrong and have been in chronic pain for 10 years. I never abused the opiates but my tolerance got stupid high and I was having trouble functioning at 600mg Percocet a day. The highs and lows were too much so I found a better pain doctor and he switched me to methadone. I evened out at 180mg a day and felt the same all the time. No highs, no lows. But after 5 years of methadone I found other ways to deal with the pain and didn't want the crap anymore. I tapered over the last 2 years and am now completely off of it. I even gave the rest of my script back to the pharmacy. I don't have any cravings but I'm sweating a lot, having a lot of trouble sleeping and am super anxious. The RLS is pretty bad too and I did horizant (gabapentin but better) for a few weeks but then stopped taking it so I wouldn't develop a physical dependence and have to come off of something again that, I've read, is a major bitch. My doctor wants to start me on naltrexone pills for about a month starting Monday just to speed up the withdrawal process and not be feeling like shit forever. Anyone have any experience with this? Will the naltrexone make me miserable even though I'm over two weeks off?

 

[dirzted]

Ummm, not sure if your doctor knows what he's talking about as far as taking naltrexone AFTER your immediate withdrawal symptoms are over with. That makes no sense.

What does make sense is using naltrexone to prevent further abuse, in which case I would advise using them regardless.

 

[JM357]

Well, there is a theory that in low doses it can help with PAWS due to wearing off quickly but increasing the amount of endorphin produced by the body. When saying low dose I've heard of people taking 1-4mgs and no more than 5mgs under any circumstances (it seems most evidence coming out shows it to not be good in the sense of blocking opioids- due to it blocking endorphins it often causes insomnia, depression, etc.- I have never known ANYONE it worked for who tried it (one person I knew got the implants and hated them so much he took a k-bar and cut them out of himself, after starting to use meth due to how shitty he felt- then he wanted dope more than the meth and cut them out) as it seems the most common reaction is "OMG I feel like crap and am going to start using again as soon as this wears off!"I literally think I heard of one person online who claimed it worked for them, they felt good etc.). Then there is some evidence risk of ODing goes up b/c people try to break through it and it takes such large amounts that they OD. But the low dose thing looks more promising- usually I've heard people claim the immediate reaction is to feel sort of shitty but when it wears off they feel better than they did before.

 

[dirzted]

Well, there is a theory that in low doses it can help with PAWS due to wearing off quickly but increasing the amount of endorphin produced by the body. When saying low dose I've heard of people taking 1-4mgs and no more than 5mgs under any circumstances (it seems most evidence coming out shows it to not be good in the sense of blocking opioids- due to it blocking endorphins it often causes insomnia, depression, etc.- I have never known ANYONE it worked for who tried it (one person I knew got the implants and hated them so much he took a k-bar and cut them out of himself, after starting to use meth due to how shitty he felt- then he wanted dope more than the meth and cut them out) as it seems the most common reaction is "OMG I feel like crap and am going to start using again as soon as this wears off!"I literally think I heard of one person online who claimed it worked for them, they felt good etc.). Then there is some evidence risk of ODing goes up b/c people try to break through it and it takes such large amounts that they OD. But the low dose thing looks more promising- usually I've heard people claim the immediate reaction is to feel sort of shitty but when it wears off they feel better than they did before.

Ya low dose regiments seem like a good idea

Again I said IMMEDIATE withdrawal symptoms, which are very distinct from PAWS.

 

[Jabberwocky]

god bless you, man.

I guess thats why they say some of us actually NEED the pain meds and MOST of us just abuse the meds; you actually needed the meds but decided they were no longer for you and decided to wind down. I am shocked a pain Dr. had you on 600MG of percoset/day. what type of pills did he have you on? what was your dosing like? this is out of my own curiosity. must of had some seriousssssssssssss pain or a whackyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Dr. to get that script.

glad to hear methadone did you well; I used it for other reasons (addiction) and tapped out at 105MG because it could not stop me from using dope and I did not want to waste my time at a clinic daily (I am sure you got it scripted).

anyway, I also had a Dr. script me the Naltrexone to "wind me down" a bit when I was trying to kick heroin. it did absolutely nothing for me besides block the dope; if you are already 2 weeks ahead of the game then keep it that way. I took a small dosage which was mentioned above and which SOMETIMES helps but no help here; a few days later I went to a much larger dose and it still did NOTHING but block me from using OTHER drugs and you seem not to have that problem, so may be no point.

then again, its a win-win for you, man. you already kicked your other crap and you have no cravings, so why not take a chance w/ the naltrexone and see what it does? it could only help in this case since you are already 2 weeks off the methadone - and btw, methadone is THE HARDEST OPIATE TO KICK! this coming from a long time heroin addict/fent addict. methadone is NOT EASY and surly did not make me feel well, so hats off to you, man.

 

[JM357]

god bless you, man.

I guess thats why they say some of us actually NEED the pain meds and MOST of us just abuse the meds; you actually needed the meds but decided they were no longer for you and decided to wind down. I am shocked a pain Dr. had you on 600MG of percoset/day. what type of pills did he have you on? what was your dosing like? this is out of my own curiosity. must of had some seriousssssssssssss pain or a whackyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Dr. to get that script.

glad to hear methadone did you well; I used it for other reasons (addiction) and tapped out at 105MG because it could not stop me from using dope and I did not want to waste my time at a clinic daily (I am sure you got it scripted).

anyway, I also had a Dr. script me the Naltrexone to "wind me down" a bit when I was trying to kick heroin. it did absolutely nothing for me besides block the dope; if you are already 2 weeks ahead of the game then keep it that way. I took a small dosage which was mentioned above and which SOMETIMES helps but no help here; a few days later I went to a much larger dose and it still did NOTHING but block me from using OTHER drugs and you seem not to have that problem, so may be no point.

then again, its a win-win for you, man. you already kicked your other crap and you have no cravings, so why not take a chance w/ the naltrexone and see what it does? it could only help in this case since you are already 2 weeks off the methadone - and btw, methadone is THE HARDEST OPIATE TO KICK! this coming from a long time heroin addict/fent addict. methadone is NOT EASY and surly did not make me feel well, so hats off to you, man.

I'm in the class where I really need some sort of pain management (wither it is opioids (currently on subs) or whatever will work) but also has problems with them... really really sucky combination.

I'm guessing by 600mgs of percocet OP means 600mgs of oxycodone- one of my wifes relatives was prescribed that much (2x80mgs oxycontin 3xday and 1-2x30mg oxy ir as needed) about, but was terminally ill with cancer and has since passed. It isn't particularly surprising, they did have 160mg oxycontin originally (as you probably know) and was discontinued in favor of giving the patients that needed that much 2 80s instead due to people ODing off taking one without crushing it if they didn't have a tolerance (probably a lot of people would think "well, they wouldn't make a pill where one is so much that it would kill you if taken orally as it is supposed to be" and before I started really learning about drugs I might have thought the same way; even though an 80 would be a lot for someone without a tolerance if used with the time release intact, and wouldn't recommend doing so in the spirit of harm reduction, I actually think if not combined with other drugs their chance of actually dying would be pretty low).

I actually thought fent was 10x worse than methadone, although the WD would only last a few days (at least acute WD), but until recently people may not have had access to A LOT of it b/c it was pretty much the patches. Now with the availability of pure powder (well 95-99%) being easily available and cheap due to the darknet I'm starting to think we may actually see deaths from opioid withdrawal (not sure about this, wouldn't say it is a fact) even though it is thought to be not lethal. I came off 25-30mgs a day and HAD to start using dope (and I've come off methadone before, about 100mgs a day) as there was no way I could even wrap my head around going through even a few days of it. And bupe barely touched it (had to go fent to H to bupe). And there are people getting grams of it at a time and have heard of people taking quite a bit more than I was. It was so bad even at 25-30mgs... I really am starting to think it could be possible for someone to die if they were taking 100s of mgs a day. Or at the least very very high risk of suicide.

 

[Catman28]

god bless you, man.

I guess thats why they say some of us actually NEED the pain meds and MOST of us just abuse the meds; you actually needed the meds but decided they were no longer for you and decided to wind down. I am shocked a pain Dr. had you on 600MG of percoset/day. what type of pills did he have you on? what was your dosing like? this is out of my own curiosity. must of had some seriousssssssssssss pain or a whackyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Dr. to get that script.

glad to hear methadone did you well; I used it for other reasons (addiction) and tapped out at 105MG because it could not stop me from using dope and I did not want to waste my time at a clinic daily (I am sure you got it scripted).

anyway, I also had a Dr. script me the Naltrexone to "wind me down" a bit when I was trying to kick heroin. it did absolutely nothing for me besides block the dope; if you are already 2 weeks ahead of the game then keep it that way. I took a small dosage which was mentioned above and which SOMETIMES helps but no help here; a few days later I went to a much larger dose and it still did NOTHING but block me from using OTHER drugs and you seem not to have that problem, so may be no point.

then again, its a win-win for you, man. you already kicked your other crap and you have no cravings, so why not take a chance w/ the naltrexone and see what it does? it could only help in this case since you are already 2 weeks off the methadone - and btw, methadone is THE HARDEST OPIATE TO KICK! this coming from a long time heroin addict/fent addict. methadone is NOT EASY and surly did not make me feel well, so hats off to you, man.

Thanks man. The doctor is an addiction specialist and even though I'm not mentally addicted I am physically. I'm still having some major anxiety and my ass is constantly sweating. Seriously. My ass. I'm skinny (healthily) so I have no clue why my ass would be sweating but it's extremely uncomfortable considering I'm at a desk most of the day. The doctor was basically saying that the naltrexone will consolidate my withdrawal symptoms into a few days even though I'll be on it a month just to work the opiates completely out of my system. I'm going in on Monday and I'll be there all day to see how it affects me. They want to monitor people who do this to keep them as comfortable as possible. The doctor offered me some benzos to help me sleep for a few days since I wasn't getting any but I refused. I just can't go through this ever again with anything. That's why I even stopped the gapapentin after a few weeks (heard it's miserable to get off of). I'm on baclofen also but I've heard as long as I go super slow I won't feel anything whatsoever. I'll work with my doctor on that, too. I've found a very good physical therapy program that keeps my pain manageable so I want to cut out all the meds and let my body do its thing.

Honestly a few years ago I wondered if the opiates even did anything for my pain anymore and I don't think they did. I think my tolerance just got to the point that they lost any use except for keeping me out of w/d and slowing me down physically. I think the big "oh shit it's time to get off of this crap" was when I had blood work done and saw my free testosterone at less than 5% of what it should be. That and needing like a 4 hour nap every day I just wanted to get off. Initially it was easy. I went down 10 mg just to see how I did and didn't feel anything at all. I was able to go from 180 - 60 @ 10mg a month like it was nothing. After I got to 60 things started to become noticable but not terrible. When I got to 20 or so I was miserable. I had 10mg pills and was trying to cut them into quarters to go down 2.5 at a time instead of 5. Every time I would go down I wouldn't sleep for nearly a week. I'm really surprised how much willpower I had. Thinking about it my script was written for way more than what I was on at the time since my doctor recommended a much slower taper. I could have gone and taken a pill and slept the night but once I went down that was it. I never once went back up no matter how bad things were. I went down 2.5mgs at a time a few times but then just sucked it up and went down 5mgs. I was supposed to go down every 4-6 weeks but said fuck it and did it every 2 weeks. It was just too much to be in this much withdrawal this often. I wanted off and as soon as I evened out a little I reduced and went right back into withdrawal. Between the doses was miserable too. I was constantly looking at the clock. I don't really get how my cravings were insane when I was on the methadone but after I stopped they basically went away.

When I stopped taking the methadone my script was written for 12.5mg a day and I had about half a bottle of pills in there. My doctor said not to flush it because it fucks with the fish so just bring it back to the pharmacy and let them deal with it.

It was pretty cool going to the pharmacy (a mom and pop one - Walgreens wouldn't fill that much methadone and these guys got it special for me) and handing them the bottle saying I was done. Everyone there was so happy for me it was really exciting. Im going through a divorce right now and really don't have much in terms of a support system so it actually kind of made me cry. I was like, damn, I really did this.

Please don't take this as condescension because it's not. I just can't understand how anyone would go back to opiates after what I've experienced. I'm 28 and 10 years ago I had a series of surgeries that went horribly wrong (didn't sue - long story) and I've been in chronic pain ever since. My entire adult life was spent on these drugs and it's incredible to be off. I feel like my brain just works. I'm retaining information and thinking much faster than I was on even a low dose of opiates. I'm anxious as fuck but it's getting better. I can't imagine doing this over again. I understand that some people just don't feel "right" without the opiates and are drawn to them because of that. I had someone very close to me die of a heroin overdose after going to rehab several times and making us think he had been clean over a year. No matter what we tried he just couldn't get clean and eventually it killed him. His whole family is like that with cousins in their 40s stil on opiates after the stints in malibu rehab and even some rapid detoxes (they're very rich). Maybe everyone else is normal and I'm the outlier. I mean don't get me wrong I was really scared to go down. My doctor recommended a few months before I started the taper to just try and go down a little but I was way too scared. It took me a few months to get into that mental state of "this isn't good for me I need to get off no matter what".

Anyway this is all over the place. Sorry for the lack of flow and cohesion. In bed writing on phone half asleep. Again thanks for the support and advice. Hopefully the naltrexone will speed things up a bit and get me feeling normal again sooner. If it doesn't well fuck - I guess I'll wait it out.

 

[black kat]

Yeah,if theres no opiates in your system right now then naltrexone wont do really anything,just block the euphoric effect of any opiate you try to get high on.

Its not that it will change your outlook or actually make your mind not crave drugs,its just that even if you do drugs(opiates) theyll completely go to waste.

But since youre not really craving anyway and werent really a junkie,try it for like maybe a month,just to make sure...

 

[Catman28]

Naltrexone won't help me feel less like crap sooner? I don't know if it's the colonidine or not but I feel like I'm always tired but I'm restless so it sucks. I'm also having major stomach problems and take immodoum every other or third day to combat it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I am on 8MG on Suboxone/day and I shit once or twice a week, if I am lucky. so stomach problems are a major problem when it comes to things like this. I dont even take anything and just let it be; I know its not great but oh well. I do not feel stuffed or sick but I do notice I barely take a shit, ha. and when I do, I just shit rocks.

I've been like this for a long time but back when I as abusing dope/fent I would shit every 2-3 weeks. so even twice a week is a lot to me now.

 

[JM357]

Naltrexone won't help me feel less like crap sooner? I don't know if it's the colonidine or not but I feel like I'm always tired but I'm restless so it sucks. I'm also having major stomach problems and take immodoum every other or third day to combat it.

I'm prescribed clonidine for anxiety and sleep in addition to bupe. It definitely can make you feel tired, especially if you aren't used to it- but shouldn't cause restlessness (at least it never has in me and I haven't heard of it- the side effects are more what you might expect for a blood pressure medication (dizziness standing up, lightheadedness, laziness/sleepiness, etc.)). It is very good at combating opioid WDs especially in combination with other medications. What kind of dose are you on? I've found that the doses that are often prescribed (0.1mgs at a time) are not always effective once you get used to it or maybe even at first. But when the dose is a bit higher it can be amazing for cutting down on WDs. Problem is I have noticed a rebound effect/WDs from the clonidine itself when you take a lot, so if you take a bit I would advise at least doing a short taper (it only takes a few days at least if you haven't been on it long term). Basically I've found that clonidine can be highly effective when taken in certain doses but can also have negative effects.

 

[Catman28]

The restlessness is just from the withdrawal. I'm taking .1 colonidine every 12 hours. I'll try and taper it next week after I see my doctor. I was also on horizant 600 once a day and that was helping but I stopped it. I actually have nerve pain and it was helping but the thought of ever having to come off something hard again just scared me way too much. I take 20mg baclofen 3x a day and I've been on that for 6 or so years. Hopefully it won't be hard to taper if I just do it super slow. I can't deal with periods of time where I'm non functional / feeling like crap. Anyone have experience with baclofen? I honestly thought it was only really opiates / benzos that were hard to come off of but it looks like every damn medicine developed a tolerance and physical dependence.

 

[Laststop]

I think naltrexone is a bad idea if you have no opiates in your system. I am pretty sure naltrexone has a higher affinity for the receptors than your natural endorphins. If anything you are just going to feel worse from your natural endorphins not being able to do what they are supposed to do. Just keep up what you are doing. I am envious of you, I have to sniff opiates everyday or i go into a deep dark suicidal depression in addition to the normal withdrawal effects. Opiates are the only drug that can manage my daily depression. MDMA works too but not as a daily med. Doctors will not prescribe me opiates for depression though even though there is clinical proof they work well for anti depression. They keep trying to give me prozac, paxil, celexa, lexapro, zoloft, cymbalta, Elavil (hated this 1 made me a zombie) Remeron, and Seroquel. They have shoveled all those scripts down my throat and they do not a thing to improve my depression only opiates make me feel happy without them I just don't care about life and don't care if I die.

 

[XANAX XR]

Replying to topic;

Naltrexone, more specifically LDN (Low-Dose Naltrexone), has been shown to help with neuro-chemical production in your brain, therefore, alleviating mental disorders and withdrawal. I believe it helps, naturally, produce more endorphins and another chemical with an 'e'.

I'm not sure how true this info is, as the FDA doesn't believe it but the FDA is shit.

 

[Catman28]

What about what that other guy said? Will my natural endorphins not work? Can you not feel good on naltrexone?

Edit : http://www.drstuartwasser.com/site/mobile?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.drstuartwasser.com%2Fsanaltrexone.html#2745 found this.

 

[aihfl]

Can you not feel good on naltrexone?

Naltrexone is not mood altering at all.

 

[[email protected]]

In your case LDN low dose of naltrexone might help. I'm no doctoror scientist but I've read a lot on this subject and it would probably be better. I'd also like to say that I find it amazing that you have no mental addiction or mental cravings. Not sure if your on other meds but they could be helping you through this. Just be careful and I think it's awesome you turned your back on BIG pharma and went clean. There are natural ways of dealing with pain. Look into them. Also with restless legs take potassium and try proping your legs up a little it when you go o bed

 

[Catman28]

I stopped the naltrexone already. Was only taking it a few weeks to get everything out of my system I guess. RLS is completely gone. I've been off for 5 weeks. I'm sleeping normally and functioning just fine. I'm just sweating a lot, crapping (loose stool not diaroeha) a lot and having some bouts of rapid heart beat a few times a day. I had an EKG which says my heart is slowing then picking back up to catch up. I'm seeing a cardiologist soon (hopefully they can squeeze me in before holidays I'll find out tomorrow) to do a more inclusive battery of tests like the 24 hour halter thing. I'm getting blood drawn tomorrow to see what's up with the sweating. I've never had these issues before even when I was in withdrawal from cutting the doses back every few weeks. And I don't think the meds have anything to do with the cravings. I had cravings when I was on the methadone between doses but I toughed it out. Once I went down on the methadone I didn't go back up. I was perscribed 12.5mg a day (2.5 5 mg pills) when I stopped but I was ahead of the taper schedule so I had over half a bottle of pills back to the pharmacy. I can't tell you enough how different things feel off opiates. Even on low dose opiates I felt different than now. Everything is clearer. Everything is better.