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My trials with 2C-T-7 - HOW TO MEASURE
- Thread starter PhreeX
- Start date
Hahahahaha
I have no life. I get home from work, and have a few hours to kill without infringing upon my forced 11 hours of sleep, so I spend that time on Bluelight..
These expairments are done for no good reason - there has been a lot of arguement about which methods work best, and I thought I would come up with some answers that have backing..
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"I am not one of those weak-spirited, sappy Americans who want to be liked by all the people around them. I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is: 'What are they in a position to do about it?'"
I have no life. I get home from work, and have a few hours to kill without infringing upon my forced 11 hours of sleep, so I spend that time on Bluelight..
These expairments are done for no good reason - there has been a lot of arguement about which methods work best, and I thought I would come up with some answers that have backing..
------------------
"I am not one of those weak-spirited, sappy Americans who want to be liked by all the people around them. I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is: 'What are they in a position to do about it?'"
GlowStick Master
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2000
- Messages
- 143
So Phreex, you're telling me that the whole time I've only been doing 60% of t7 that I actually thought I was doing??? That doesn't make any sense. Where the hell could the rest of the t7 went? I dose EXACT amounts using my alcohol method, but I've never measured the powder after it evaporated. I hope I'm not just getting 60%.
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We haven't been tapping into new areas of the brain...
We have just been awakening the most ancient.
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We haven't been tapping into new areas of the brain...
We have just been awakening the most ancient.
I think we can safely deduce that the problem was having to little drug in to much fluid - on our second run we didn't lose as much as the first... I think a big problem is that we are dealing with such TINY amounts of powder - we are bound to lose some in the process..
I have a few other ideas..
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"I am not one of those weak-spirited, sappy Americans who want to be liked by all the people around them. I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is: 'What are they in a position to do about it?'"
I have a few other ideas..
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"I am not one of those weak-spirited, sappy Americans who want to be liked by all the people around them. I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is: 'What are they in a position to do about it?'"
question. How much is 4-6 mg? Is it small enough that trace amounts of it could be left in the test tube (or whatever it was mixed in) undetected? Also this is a solid @ room temp. what is the boiling point? from my understanding the liquid is being heated. if the boiling point is close to room temp would there be a problem.
Steve4bluelight
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2001
- Messages
- 8
First of all the best way to get a GREAT scale is to take a Chem class at a JC and steal one from lab then drop the class. NOT a hard thing to do when everyone has a bulky backpack and the scales are small enough to slip into your bag. Also they weight out .0001 grams. About $2000.oo a scale.
Also since I have taken quite a bit of chem I would like to know the compisition of this chemical then I can give some advice on how to mix it.
Also use a few dishes as possable and try to use the same dihes every time. DO NOT wash them if you always perform the same experiment as this will lessen your losses also as you evaporate VERY SMALL (near invisable) amounts will be left on the side of the container. Finally do not use a spoon to stir just swirl to disolve this will take longer, but there will be less loss. Also if the drug disolves better is alcohol then some reaction could be accouring between the two and you could change the chemical completly.
Steve the old chem major
Also since I have taken quite a bit of chem I would like to know the compisition of this chemical then I can give some advice on how to mix it.
Also use a few dishes as possable and try to use the same dihes every time. DO NOT wash them if you always perform the same experiment as this will lessen your losses also as you evaporate VERY SMALL (near invisable) amounts will be left on the side of the container. Finally do not use a spoon to stir just swirl to disolve this will take longer, but there will be less loss. Also if the drug disolves better is alcohol then some reaction could be accouring between the two and you could change the chemical completly.
Steve the old chem major
phreex, id like to thank you for taking the time and effort, and chemical resources for that matter, to make these measurement methodology observations.. it's a great favor to the community.. personally, i think going to archive this thread as a resource for the future...
anyway, I have had a sole experience with measuring t7, and it was a semi-carefully weighed ~100mg dissolved in 100ml spring water.
First, the rate of solubility is somewhat slow for t7 in spring water, which is basically water and some very trace minerals i believe (poland springs is whats popular here in the northeast and what i used). it took maybe several minutes of pretty violent swirling before i was satisfied that no solids were present in the water.
now, phreex made the comment that it would be more difficult and less accurate to have a low t7 to solvent ratio (more water and less t7), but i would have to disagree. If the solid is fully dissolved, then having a low t7/solvent ratio should actually be more accurate. Sure, there's a very small amount of solid dissolved, but its all spread evenly throughout the solvent, and when you have a larger amount of liquid with a solid of known weight, your margin of measuring error (measuring out the exact amount of liquid) is a much smaller percentage of the weight being measured, so subsequently the amount of error present in the mass of t7 retrieved would be lower as well.
Examples. Lets say that your margin of error for measuring out millilitres was +/-.05 ml. Lets say you want to measure out 20mg of T7. If you had a 10mg/ml solution of t7/water, that means in order to get 20mg of T7, you need to measure out 2ml of solution as accurately as you can. Now going back to our margin of error, we see that our measured solution volume can be anywhere from 1.95ml to 2.05ml. We see here that the amount we mismeasured by is about 2.4% of the total volume (.05/2.05=.024) - and keep in mind my margin of error numbers are purely arbitrary, and that real life margins of error may be much higher.
Now lets say we have a 1mg/1ml solution of T7/water. This means that in order to retrieve our target T7 amount of 20mg, we need to measure out 20ml of solution. Here, the margin of error dictates that our actual volume is going to be between 19.95ml and 20.05ml. So we see from this that the same margin of error, when applied to a smaller T7/solvent ratio, results in reduced total error. It happens that with 20.05ml, the error is .25%. This is much lower than 2.5%.. In fact, it's effectively 5 times more accurate than using a 10mg/ml ratio of t7 to solution (please correct me if there's any flaws in this logic. i'm moving quickly here and rather blazed - hey, its 4/20, what do you expect - so i didnt feel like taking the time to think that over).
The practical in-a-nutshell explanation, though, is this. If you have a 1mg/ml solution, and in the course of siphoning the liquid out, you lose a couple droplets of the stuff, maybe a couple tenths of an ml. The amount of T7 present in those couple droplets is going to be a lot less than if you had a 10mg/ml solution, and therefore your measurements would be less affected by this inevitable error.
So that time when i measured out 100mg into 100ml of water? 4 individuals each took 20mls, with two boosting 5mls somewhere in the midst of the trip. I think we all experienced results that are commensurate with what you'd expect with a 20-25mg dose. All experienced the full effects of a good trip. Personally, i took 20ml(20mg T7) and had the strongest trip out of everyone it seems. I actually sorta was on the edge of freaking out for a period during the peak of the trip, as it was my first experience on hallucinogens, but i got a hold of myself eventually, and consider it one of the most amazing, beautiful experiences of my life.
Also, for phreex and anyone else with extremely accurate scale equipment - one thing that would be REALLY helpful would be for you guys to weigh out various amount of the stuff, and then take pictures of those amounts so those of us endowed with less accurate instruments can have a visual reference to compare to what we're measuring ourselves. Pictures should be take at maybe 3 or 4 different angles to ensure proper perception of the measured amount, and the method of physically measuring the powder should be noted as well(for example, it should be noted whether the amount was obtained bumping the tip of a sharp knife into a pile of powder 2x2mm, or scooped out with the tip of a fingernail, etc). I think having this sort of reference would be ENORMOUSLY useful to all of us, and i'd really really appreciate if some of you guys would do this... =)
[This message has been edited by ozmotion (edited 20 April 2001).]
anyway, I have had a sole experience with measuring t7, and it was a semi-carefully weighed ~100mg dissolved in 100ml spring water.
First, the rate of solubility is somewhat slow for t7 in spring water, which is basically water and some very trace minerals i believe (poland springs is whats popular here in the northeast and what i used). it took maybe several minutes of pretty violent swirling before i was satisfied that no solids were present in the water.
now, phreex made the comment that it would be more difficult and less accurate to have a low t7 to solvent ratio (more water and less t7), but i would have to disagree. If the solid is fully dissolved, then having a low t7/solvent ratio should actually be more accurate. Sure, there's a very small amount of solid dissolved, but its all spread evenly throughout the solvent, and when you have a larger amount of liquid with a solid of known weight, your margin of measuring error (measuring out the exact amount of liquid) is a much smaller percentage of the weight being measured, so subsequently the amount of error present in the mass of t7 retrieved would be lower as well.
Examples. Lets say that your margin of error for measuring out millilitres was +/-.05 ml. Lets say you want to measure out 20mg of T7. If you had a 10mg/ml solution of t7/water, that means in order to get 20mg of T7, you need to measure out 2ml of solution as accurately as you can. Now going back to our margin of error, we see that our measured solution volume can be anywhere from 1.95ml to 2.05ml. We see here that the amount we mismeasured by is about 2.4% of the total volume (.05/2.05=.024) - and keep in mind my margin of error numbers are purely arbitrary, and that real life margins of error may be much higher.
Now lets say we have a 1mg/1ml solution of T7/water. This means that in order to retrieve our target T7 amount of 20mg, we need to measure out 20ml of solution. Here, the margin of error dictates that our actual volume is going to be between 19.95ml and 20.05ml. So we see from this that the same margin of error, when applied to a smaller T7/solvent ratio, results in reduced total error. It happens that with 20.05ml, the error is .25%. This is much lower than 2.5%.. In fact, it's effectively 5 times more accurate than using a 10mg/ml ratio of t7 to solution (please correct me if there's any flaws in this logic. i'm moving quickly here and rather blazed - hey, its 4/20, what do you expect - so i didnt feel like taking the time to think that over).
The practical in-a-nutshell explanation, though, is this. If you have a 1mg/ml solution, and in the course of siphoning the liquid out, you lose a couple droplets of the stuff, maybe a couple tenths of an ml. The amount of T7 present in those couple droplets is going to be a lot less than if you had a 10mg/ml solution, and therefore your measurements would be less affected by this inevitable error.
So that time when i measured out 100mg into 100ml of water? 4 individuals each took 20mls, with two boosting 5mls somewhere in the midst of the trip. I think we all experienced results that are commensurate with what you'd expect with a 20-25mg dose. All experienced the full effects of a good trip. Personally, i took 20ml(20mg T7) and had the strongest trip out of everyone it seems. I actually sorta was on the edge of freaking out for a period during the peak of the trip, as it was my first experience on hallucinogens, but i got a hold of myself eventually, and consider it one of the most amazing, beautiful experiences of my life.
Also, for phreex and anyone else with extremely accurate scale equipment - one thing that would be REALLY helpful would be for you guys to weigh out various amount of the stuff, and then take pictures of those amounts so those of us endowed with less accurate instruments can have a visual reference to compare to what we're measuring ourselves. Pictures should be take at maybe 3 or 4 different angles to ensure proper perception of the measured amount, and the method of physically measuring the powder should be noted as well(for example, it should be noted whether the amount was obtained bumping the tip of a sharp knife into a pile of powder 2x2mm, or scooped out with the tip of a fingernail, etc). I think having this sort of reference would be ENORMOUSLY useful to all of us, and i'd really really appreciate if some of you guys would do this... =)
[This message has been edited by ozmotion (edited 20 April 2001).]
I kind of gave up on the project.. I have a bottle of the T-7 solution and am open to idea on what should be done with it.. no, I am not going to give any of this away..
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"I am not one of those weak-spirited, sappy Americans who want to be liked by all the people around them. I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is: 'What are they in a position to do about it?'"
------------------
"I am not one of those weak-spirited, sappy Americans who want to be liked by all the people around them. I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is: 'What are they in a position to do about it?'"
Alright, PhreeX or anybody else... if I were to use 80 or 151 proof alcohol, what would be the BEST and most effective way to use some sort of heat to get the alcohol to evaporate faster? Since it's hard for me to leave it out for many hours to dry this is very important to me. Also, using some method of heating, how quick can I get 80 and 151 proofs to dry without burning or harming the T7? BTW, assume i'm only evaporating off .5mL to 1mL of alcohol. Thank you...
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"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals...and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant...earth would become paradise."
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"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals...and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant...earth would become paradise."
best way to speed evaporation by heat would probably be to put whatever amount of solution you want to evaporate onto a clean petri dish, and then point a desk lamp at it.. halogen lamps would work even better i'd anticipate, but make sure you dont put the lamp too close (i prolly would keep it at least 8-10 inches or more from the dish), cause those things get pretty hot... I was just about to suggest sunlight, but youd have no way of knowing what kind of UV deterioration you might get...