My therapist dropped me cause I couldn't say I'll quit all drugs forever

[Mycophile]

I believe you are misinterpreting the words of your therapist, and he is misinterpreting yours.
What I mean is, you seem to be convinced that you by saying those words, will be bound to act following their meaning.
That is not what your therapist wants, he wants to see you wanting to do that, even if you will fail 100 times before you get there.

Well, it's hard to say if we misinterpreted what eachother meant, and I won't be seeing him again.

I did say to him "I find it easier to say I MIGHT quit forever, and that I will try, but that I am not necessarily going to say it HAS to be forever, just that it is going to be for as long as I can, because I feel that if I say 'forever" that it is harder" and explained that when I told myself I would go a year without weed I went 412 days, and that in the past when I was trying to stop substances for either a long period of time or forever, that what got me through the days I was craving it was to tell myself that i COULD eventually use that substance again, just NOT TODAY, and that that would calm me down and then I would be able to go longer without using it."

I find that that line of thinking is helpful for me, and he told me that he disagreed with it, and that he DOES think that it is necessary to say "forever" in order to be successful when quitting a substance.

So, I don't think we really misunderstood eachother, but I can't be sure.

What about you?

Do you think it is necessary that a person say "I am quitting all drugs FOREVER" in order to be successful, or do you think, like me, that it is possible to be successful by saying "I know I SHOULD quit forever, and I MIGHT quit forever, but I am not going to tell myself it HAS to be forever, just that it has to be for a long time, and that I am going to quit for as long as I can and do my best"??

That's my line of thinking, or even the crazier line of thinking of saying "I will go AT LEAST a year, maybe more" for example, and then when the year comes going "ok, now I will go AT LEAST another year, maybe more", or even telling myself I CAN do something again, just "not today or anytime soon."

Cause for me, I can wrap my head around a year, and I can also wrap my head around "just not today or anytime too soon."

But I can't wrap my head around "forever".

I actually think it would be easier to go "forever" by NOT NECESSARILY saying it HAS to be "forever".

Putting that kind of pressure on yourself when you already know you have trouble even taking a short break from substances is IMO a recipe for failure.

If you feel SUPER confident you can go a year, and think there's a good chance you can go longer than a year, and that you might go longer than that if you just stop for that year and then tell yourself that when the year is up you are going to reevaluate and probably try another year, or 2, or 5....I think honestly that line of thinking is more likely to work for someone like me.

 

[Mycophile]

Exactly Phobos. Everyone fails at first, but one needs to have goals. Perhaps if the OP would explain that quitting all drugs is your long term goal and at present you need to concentrate on quitting your DOC.

Yeah, or that quitting all drugs is your long term goal (if it is, which to be honest I am not 100% sure, I just know I need to stop as many drugs as possible as soon as possible for as long as possible), but that as a preliminary goal you will stop for a year and then see how you feel after the year?

Or yeah, that you are going to stop one drug now, and then see about the others later.

These smaller goals are IMO more likely for someone like me to be successful with.

 

[Mycophile]

You stayed true to yourself that is (y) The way it sounds the therapist rather have someone lie to him then having a two way stream conversation.

Forever, is taking things out of the ordinary to the extreme end of the spectrum. I get the therapist's idea about getting away of drug's. Probably basic stuff for them, they don't aid when trying to resolve stuff. Althoug acid and shroom's are used among other's in therapy setting's, but these are the exception's.

But this is like basickly slamming the door shut in your mouth Mycophile.

Yup, that's how I feel.

Also, I agree, IF I ever did even say "I am quitting all drugs forever" that would NOT include psychedelics, especially shrooms.

It's been years since I have done them, but I felt they calmed me down and have been proven to help depression, and psychs aren't addictive like other drugs.

As soon as I get a new place with better living conditions I am going to learn to grow shrooms.

I've wanted to do it forever and the shroomery has all the necessary info.

I really think that using mushrooms like once a week could help me to be honest.

 

[Mycophile]

It sounds like your psychologist is asking you to do the impossible. Even if you said "Yes I'll stop forever.", from his experience with other patients he would know that this is an unrealistic expectation and wouldn't believe you whether or not you actually did stop.
As far as him telling you that you have too many "problems" for him to handle, he is openly admitting he is an underqualified psychologist. Dont listen to single word an underqualified "professional" says.

Get a new one Myco, there are much better options than that shitty guy. He obviously (well he actually told you haha) doesnt know what hes doing when it comes to treating patients.

Stay strong and sending good thoughts,
Mr. Deeds

P.S.
You should try to quit the drugs, but take it at your own pace. Focus on the one that is most problematic in your life, which I think is the kratom from your previous posts. After that you should evaluate how you feel and then decide what to do next.

Yeah, frankly it's unusual that a professional would so openly admit to such incompetence haha.

And I agree it's just unrealistic to think of things that way.

Honestly, again, I don't know if I will quit all drugs forever, and the thing is, the part of me that loves them certainly does not want to, but the part of me that knows they mess me up at least wants to stop for as long as is necessary to move forward in a number of areas of my life and then reevaluate.

I think what I will do is very soon stop Kratom for as long as possible, without saying "forever" or how long, and also place a limit on myself for drinking, like saying "I wont' drink for 2 months", and then take it from there.

I already quit Dexadrine which was the other problem substance, and I don't have others at the moment that are causing problems, so it's really alcohol and Kratom now.

 

[Mycophile]

So, so far, not that many people have answered the specific question of whether or not they think it is or isn't necessary to say "forever" when quitting drugs, or quitting anything for that matter, though a few of you have, and most of you seem to be leaning towards agreeing with me that it is not 100% necessary for success to say "forever."

Could a couple more of you answer a bit more clearly whether or not you think it is or isn't necessary to say "forever", and regarding what you feel, explain why you feel that way?

Also, why do you think a person like this would say they do think it is necessary to say "forever" in order to be successful?

 

[emkee_reinvented]

I believe you are misinterpreting the words of your therapist, and he is misinterpreting yours.
What I mean is, you seem to be convinced that you by saying those words, will be bound to act following their meaning.
That is not what your therapist wants, he wants to see you wanting to do that, even if you will fail 100 times before you get there.

You would definitely make a good therapist, you look at things from different angles.

But by not opening his mouth and saying this outloud, Mycophile's therapist failed imo. The door was basickly slammed.

I would have appreciated it, if the goal was not to make an ode to swear of drug's confession, like you said. That it would have been spoken out, a session rely's on trust, equality and feedback. Before leaving prefurably, but a call or coming back on the topic later would be fine. For each is own time to process thing's.

Did your therapist give you any feedback afterwards Myco?

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Could a couple more of you answer a bit more clearly whether or not you think it is or isn't necessary to say "forever", and regarding what you feel, explain why you feel that way?

Whenever I say forever afterward's I go harder then ... Never worked for me.

I learned to lie to dr's because of their subjective opinions. Learned to keep cetrain thing's unspoken as I suck at lying. And off course I hope they don't look in my eye's. Most cover up's and lies are easy to spot. Dr's do it to and therapist's. My EX- home dr, is that a GP in the US. He is real good, he fucked me up big time. And I don't know if he is playing dummy or is a dummy?

But the near future will maybe reveal his true, overpriced, origin. After my ex is ok of some surgery I am picking up were I left. Making a appointment with him, to determine his act.

I wil be taking a friend with me, as chaperonne, just in case I wouid want to bash him. Selfprotection!

 

[Mycophile]

You would definitely make a good therapist, you look at things from different angles.

But by not opening his mouth and saying this outloud, Mycophile's therapist failed imo. The door was basickly slammed.

I would have appreciated it, if the goal was not to make an ode to swear of drug's confession, like you said. That it would have been spoken out, a session rely's on trust, equality and feedback. Before leaving prefurably, but a call or coming back on the topic later would be fine. For each is own time to process thing's.

Did your therapist give you any feedback afterwards Myco?

Nope.

But again, even though the thread title makes it sound like he dropped me cause I didn't say I'd quit all drugs forever, because that is part of what happened and it was what I wanted this thread to be about, that was not the actual reason he didn't want to work with me anymore, but rather an even more pathetic reason on his part, which was that he said "you have too many problems and usually I just help people who have one big life problem" LOL.

He was actually admitting to not being a very good therapist, probably without his thinking that that was what he was admitting to, but as mentioned, I've already told a therapist what he said and she is of the opinion that that was a ridiculous thing to say and basically means that he is not a good therapist.

I've had several therapist before and one in particular who was really good, and none would ever say something like that, and the best therapist I had would probably think that the fact that the guy said this means that he is totally incompetent and that I am better off without him.

How many people that actually pay money to say a therapist only have one problem they need to discuss with the guy?

If they only have one problem then they probably have things going pretty well in their life IMO and don't need a therapist.

Basically, the guy was a tool.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

"you have too many problems and usually I just help people who have one big life problem" LOL.

Some honesty in that. He basickly told you he can't help you, If you disregard the rest.

"Do you feel troubled by one thing only, my therapy could help you" [advertisement] Lol

 

[Mycophile]

Whenever I say forever afterward's I go harder then ... Never worked for me.

I learned to lie to dr's because of their subjective opinions. Learned to keep cetrain thing's unspoken as I suck at lying. And off course I hope they don't look in my eye's. Most cover up's and lies are easy to spot. Dr's do it to and therapist's. My EX- home dr, is that a GP in the US. He is real good, he fucked me up big time. And I don't know if he is playing dummy or is a dummy?

But the near future will maybe reveal his true, overpriced, origin. After my ex is ok of some surgery I am picking up were I left. Making a appointment with him, to determine his act.

I wil be taking a friend with me, as chaperonne, just in case I wouid want to bash him. Selfprotection!

Honestly, while I won't say it is 100% necessary to be a good "addiction therapist" that you have had past addictions, I'd say that if you haven't your opinion is going to be limited, and that IMO probably most of the best addiction counselors are going to be those who have used drugs themselves, and while this guy was like 60 so I can't 100% say for sure what he was like when he was young, I am going to go out on a limb and say that I am pretty sure the guy's experience with drugs is probably limited to "that one or two times I smoked pot in college" and "the few times I drank a bit too much with a friend" LOL.

There's no way this guy has ever used real drugs or knows himself what it is to have an addiction.

I mean, it is possible IMO to have not used drugs and still be able to help those with addictions, but you are certainly going to be at as disadvantage because of that fact alone IMO and have to learn that much more in order to be able to help people.

I'd say that it's probably easy for someone who has never done drugs in their life to say that someone who has substance issues should be able to easily and definitively say "I am going to quit all drugs forever right now."

An addict would probably at least understand that that is a very difficult thing to do.

Also, even IF I quit drugs forever I will ALWAYS be of the opinion that EVERY SINGLE drug should be legal if you are 18 years old and taking it in the privacy of your own home and not driving a car, and it's really important to me that if I am talking to a drug counselor about this shit that they agree with me.

I mean, not that it is necessary to have that opinion to help someone with addictions, but if you don't AT LEAST agree that marijuanna should be legal and that people should not be doing actual prison time for drugs and that most drugs do have helpful uses when it comes to expanding one's consciousness, then we are not going to get along.

And I am pretty sure he's NOT of that opinion cause when I told him at one point that that was my opinion he gave me a look that seemed to mean to me at least that he doesn't think most drugs should be legal.

I mean, every drug can be abused and can ruin lives, but all those same drugs have beneficial uses and have opened different people's minds in helpful ways, and I'm even going as far to say that the very worst drugs like Meth and Heroin can AT LEAST like 0.000001% of the time have a SMALL beneficial effect on the user, even if the other 99.99999999% of their experience with the drug has absolutely destroyed their lives.

There is no single opinion in life that I feel more strongly about than the idea that every adult should have the right to put whatever they want into their own body so long as they are not hurting anyone else, and also that drugs, by and large, even despite how much damage they can cause, are 100% necessary for mankind to understand it's own universal mind, and that by and large, mind altering drugs are something which it is VERY important that they exist, if despite the damage they can do.

Whenever I hear that anyone is not of the opinion that at least SOMETIMES a lot of mind altering substances can be beneficial and that at least SOME of them should be legal I pretty much gag with repulsion.

That was another thing he said at one point/another reaction he had to something I said in my last visit: I forget what I was trying to explain, but I was referring to "recreational drug use" in order to make a point that some drug use is purely intended for fun by the user, and that some is used either to self medicate or to try to expand one's mind.

And when I said the phrase "recreational drug use" he sort of smiled and said "I don't know what you mean by that."

I mean, how could you NOT know what recreational drug use is or that on some level there is a difference between someone who consciously takes a drug just for fun, or someone who takes it to self medicate or even to try to expand their consciousness??!!!

Like, almost all my drug use, other than my prescribed meds, is recreational, BUT, there have been rare times I've used substances for certain points.

For example, I've used both Dexadrine/Adderall/Vyvanse and Kratom to help me do academic work because they have helped with my concentration, and actually, in the case of Kratom, to open my mind to new ideas.

I teach English as a Second Language to foreigners, and I remember one specific time I was writing a lesson plan and I was just super stressed and couldn't think straight and needed to come up with ideas for how to teach an interesting class and felt like I had to stop for the day cause I was so frustrated.

Then I thought to myself "I bet if I take Kratom my mood will improve and I will start to think more creatively and won't have to stop for the day and will come up with some good ideas."

Well, I took Kratom and instantly I was no longer stressed about writing the plan and because of how good I felt my mind just relaxed and opened and I was able to think clearly and come up with a really good idea for a class activity that I might not have come up with otherwise.

Then of course there are the times I know I am just self medicating cause I feel bad, but there are also times I have taken Phenibut and/or Kratom to loosen up my muscles and improve my mood and performance when doing the pretty grueling physical therapy exercises I have to do for my knees and neck due to the injuries I've had from doing martial arts, and they work a charm.

And lets of course not forget that many people use psychedelics to help them think about issues they are confronting in life from a different angle and help with depression and anxiety.

I can GUARANTEE that this idiot psychologist would have had ZERO understanding that any mind altering legal drug can have anything other than a "recreational use" and just thinks they are all bad and do nothing but mess people up.

I mean, what else could he have meant when he said he didn't understand what the term "recreational drug use" means?

What an idiot.

I'm glad he let me know he was incompetent so I didn't waste any more time with him.

 

[Phobos]

Well, it's hard to say if we misinterpreted what eachother meant, and I won't be seeing him again.

I did say to him "I find it easier to say I MIGHT quit forever, and that I will try, but that I am not necessarily going to say it HAS to be forever, just that it is going to be for as long as I can, because I feel that if I say 'forever" that it is harder" and explained that when I told myself I would go a year without weed I went 412 days, and that in the past when I was trying to stop substances for either a long period of time or forever, that what got me through the days I was craving it was to tell myself that i COULD eventually use that substance again, just NOT TODAY, and that that would calm me down and then I would be able to go longer without using it."

I find that that line of thinking is helpful for me, and he told me that he disagreed with it, and that he DOES think that it is necessary to say "forever" in order to be successful when quitting a substance.

So, I don't think we really misunderstood eachother, but I can't be sure.

What about you?

Do you think it is necessary that a person say "I am quitting all drugs FOREVER" in order to be successful, or do you think, like me, that it is possible to be successful by saying "I know I SHOULD quit forever, and I MIGHT quit forever, but I am not going to tell myself it HAS to be forever, just that it has to be for a long time, and that I am going to quit for as long as I can and do my best"??

That's my line of thinking, or even the crazier line of thinking of saying "I will go AT LEAST a year, maybe more" for example, and then when the year comes going "ok, now I will go AT LEAST another year, maybe more", or even telling myself I CAN do something again, just "not today or anytime soon."

Cause for me, I can wrap my head around a year, and I can also wrap my head around "just not today or anytime too soon."

But I can't wrap my head around "forever".

I actually think it would be easier to go "forever" by NOT NECESSARILY saying it HAS to be "forever".

Putting that kind of pressure on yourself when you already know you have trouble even taking a short break from substances is IMO a recipe for failure.

If you feel SUPER confident you can go a year, and think there's a good chance you can go longer than a year, and that you might go longer than that if you just stop for that year and then tell yourself that when the year is up you are going to reevaluate and probably try another year, or 2, or 5....I think honestly that line of thinking is more likely to work for someone like me.

I found that a similar reasoning works for me as well, if I say to myself something like "ok no more speed today, it's not doing anything except keeping you up, after food and sleep you can use again" it's super easy to stop redosing.
If I try to be like "nah you have to stop using forever, it's not good for you" it causes a significant amount of internal opposition, it would be hard to ignore it.

 

[Mycophile]

Some honesty in that. He basickly told you he can't help you, If you disregard the rest.

"Do you feel troubled by one thing only, my therapy could help you" [advertisement] Lol

Hahah, yeah, I'm glad he was so honest about his incompetence so he didn't further waste my time.

I mean, frankly, it's almost shocking that he was so honest about sucking at his career hahaha.

I said it before and I'll say it again: I really wonder if he'd be so honest with a colleague or fellow psychologist about having zero ability to multi-task and help patients who have more than one problem.

I would think he'd be embarrassed to admit such a major flaw to another therapist, but who knows.

You are basically flat out admitting that you are highly limited and really can't help people who have any kind of serious issues.

Weird as fuck IMO.

 

[Mycophile]

I found that a similar reasoning works for me as well, if I say to myself something like "ok no more speed today, it's not doing anything except keeping you up, after food and sleep you can use again" it's super easy to stop redosing.
If I try to be like "nah you have to stop using forever, it's not good for you" it causes a significant amount of internal opposition, it would be hard to ignore it.

Yeah, I mean, addicts already have extreme behaviors and most are compulsively drawn towards their drugs of choice, and just flat out saying "I am quitting FOREVER", if it's not something you feel 100% confident in, is just likely to hurt more than help in terms of what you do moving forward.

Putting too much pressure on oneself is usually not a good thing.

I mean, it's one thing to know that you really would be much much better off if you quit all drugs forever, which I totally know, and another entirely to believe that telling yourself that is the right approach if you know that in the past giving yourself that kind of message has just made you fuck up and use more drugs.

What works for me is either telling myself I am not going to use for a specific period of time, or that I am just not using today or in the near future, but that i don't know how long.

The mind can wrap itself around taking a month or a year or even 5 months off, or the idea that you MIGHT quit forever but that you aren't going to necessarily tell yourself that because you don't want to freak out.

Most addicts IMO would freak out and use more drugs if they give themselves such a hard line message, and honestly, now I feel REALLY sorry for this guys' other patients.

I can't see how he has been able to effectively help anyone with their issues, whether they are addictions or other kinds of problems.

Good riddance to him.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Was this a 'do you use any alcohol or drugs' question?

Got one recently, seem's like a normal question for a lot of discipline's. And the 'no comment'reply popped up. Anyone know what kinda reaction that would yield?

The last time. Working around the question diverting the discussion to being drunk vs a few drinks and medical MJ use in the States.

They must have had a clue on my thought's on the subject. There was no specification on what the standard's were for problematic use. The diversion's, is a medical Marihuana user a addict?

The 'no comment' is a good one, if you think it is not essential for the person to know. Trying it out first oppurtunity. But with therapy openess is of more importance ime. It seem's to go against what you are there for.

 

[Mycophile]

Was this a 'do you use any alcohol or drugs' question?

Got one recently, seem's like a normal question for a lot of discipline's. And the 'no comment'reply popped up. Anyone know what kinda reaction that would yield?

The last time. Working around the question diverting the discussion to being drunk vs a few drinks and medical MJ use in the States.

They must have had a clue on my thought's on the subject. There was no specification on what the standard's were for problematic use. The diversion's, is a medical Marihuana user a addict?

The 'no comment' is a good one, if you think it is not essential for the person to know. Trying it out first oppurtunity. But with therapy openess is of more importance ime. It seem's to go against what you are there for.

Well I already told him I used drugs and alcohol the first time I saw him cause addictions were just one of many reasons I was seeing him.

Honestly, I feel that you should probably have past drug experience and/or have been an addict if you want to help people with drug addictions cause how can you help someone if you have never experienced it yourself??

I can tell this guy never did drugs.

But that's not IMO the biggest reason I was seeing him, and when I get a new therapist that will be one criteria I am looking for, but not the only one.

 

[ProfessrHyperdimensional]

Hope you find the support or guidance or therapy you seek!

From the sound of it that therapist is a douchelord.

 

[mal3volent]

I found that a similar reasoning works for me as well, if I say to myself something like "ok no more speed today, it's not doing anything except keeping you up, after food and sleep you can use again" it's super easy to stop redosing.
If I try to be like "nah you have to stop using forever, it's not good for you" it causes a significant amount of internal opposition, it would be hard to ignore it.

@Mycophile

I agree with this whole heartedly. My mind is my biggest strength and also my biggest liability.

My mind fights itself.

If I tell it "forever" , my mind will say "not a chance...LOL".
If I tell it "tomorrow" , it will grunt and say "ok...whatever".

When tomorrow comes, here's what I do... I tell my mind again "Tomorrow. I really mean it this time."
It's not happy but I'm the boss.

I won't go on, but that's when it really starts getting hard for me.

The point is...the only answer to your questions is to say you have to be honest with yourself. Be real with what you want, what your goals are, and whether you think your goals are achievable.

It's really important imo to set achievable goals. Which leads me to "forever". Saying "forever" is setting yourself up for disappointment.

I personally don't see the point. Of those who say "forever" what percentage live up to that word?

I'm not saying anything against those who say forever. They believe it in their hearts when they say it. And that's whats important. Say what you feel. If you are ready to stop, just stop now. See where it goes.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Honestly, I feel that you should probably have past drug experience and/or have been an addict if you want to help people with drug addictions cause how can you help someone if you have never experienced it yourself??

It should be possible to help some one without actually been through or at least experiencing it.

A very common dream is that you can fly, it feel's very real. Maybe you had one, or a sort like one. So our mind has the power to produce something it hasn't experienced.

 

[Mycophile]

Hope you find the support or guidance or therapy you seek!

From the sound of it that therapist is a douchelord.

Thanks.

Yeah, I've seen different therapists and psychiatrists throughout my life, some of them good, and some terrible, and while this guy wasn't as huge an asshole as some of them were, he definitely wins the award for "most willing to admit he's not very good at helping people" hahahah.

I mean, what if you were like going for a jog interview, and the job required you to do a bunch of different tasks, and it was possible for someone (even if you can't) to multi-task and do all of them at once, but you flat out admitted to the interviewer that you are good at handling one of this tasks, but that you simply CANNOT do more than one of them at once??

They would fucking NOT give you the job.

One of the biggest things employers look for is multi-tasking, and I should know cause I'm not that good at it (it hasn't mattered for my current job though), and if you tell an employer you cannot multi-task it is usually the end of the job interview IMO.

So it's like, this guy is like 60 years old and has obviously done this most of his life and doesn't need to impress an employer, but if he did have to and told them he can't help people who have more than one problem, it would look fucking pathetic and he wouldn't get the job.

I've never spoken to a therapist so willing to admit his limitations.

 

[Mycophile]

@Mycophile

I agree with this whole heartedly. My mind is my biggest strength and also my biggest liability.

My mind fights itself.

If I tell it "forever" , my mind will say "not a chance...LOL".
If I tell it "tomorrow" , it will grunt and say "ok...whatever".

When tomorrow comes, here's what I do... I tell my mind again "Tomorrow. I really mean it this time."
It's not happy but I'm the boss.

I won't go on, but that's when it really starts getting hard for me.

The point is...the only answer to your questions is to say you have to be honest with yourself. Be real with what you want, what your goals are, and whether you think your goals are achievable.

It's really important imo to set achievable goals. Which leads me to "forever". Saying "forever" is setting yourself up for disappointment.

I personally don't see the point. Of those who say "forever" what percentage live up to that word?

I'm not saying anything against those who say forever. They believe it in their hearts when they say it. And that's whats important. Say what you feel. If you are ready to stop, just stop now. See where it goes.

Yup, that's how I feel, and it annoys me this guy couldn't understand what I was saying or at least wouldn't agree with it.