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Multiple IV Prep methods i use (Fentanyl Patches, Sticky heroin,ms contin, Suboxone bupe strips)

Deru

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May 18, 2020
Messages
223
In an ideal world yeah in reality no
I agree 100 percent. It never works out like that in reality. Even when I would be trying my hardest to practice harm reduction, if I was in the middle of a binge at 2 am, then I was going to use whatever was available - whether it was "theoretically safe" or not.

But it is also good to have the best theoretical safest way out there for anyone trying to achieve it.
 
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JessFR

Sr. Moderator: AADD, H&R
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8,278
I agree 100 percent. It never works out like that in reality. Even when I would be trying my hardest to practice harm reduction, if I was in the middle of a binge at 2 am, then I was going to use whatever was available - whether it was "theoretically safe" or not.

But it is also good to have the best theoretical safest way out there for anyone trying to achieve it.
I doubt any iv heroin user exercises 100% of the precautions 100% of the time, but it's always good to know them so you can exercise them when you feel you can.

Every little bit you can do to reduce your risk is still worth it.
 

Deru

Bluelighter
Joined
May 18, 2020
Messages
223
Exactly. As with everything in life, very few things are ever in absolutes. And even if you had near ideal medical conditions, it's still no guarantee from blood infections or endocarditis - as is evidenced by the percentage of those cases happening during hospitalization.

So you can never achieve no risk, it's just about trying to reduce it as much as possible.

Bacteria literally just gets into everything.
 
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Deru

Bluelighter
Joined
May 18, 2020
Messages
223
I'm starting to second guess my memory now.
Was that licking the tip thing or something similar in the movie trainspotting?
Oh, I just thought of this too. One of my friends used to always lick the needle before injecting, and then would lick the blood after the injection as well right off the wound in an attempt to not waste anything. To this day, after a decade plus of IV use, he is perfectly healthy, never got a blood infection once, and has no collapsed veins even with using lemon juice and vinegar constantly, reusing syringes until the numbers were complete gone, etc. - now that's someone who got off easy!
 

I_Hate_This_Place

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Nov 16, 2019
Messages
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Buying Real Estate In Imaginary Places
I'm starting to second guess my memory now.
Was that licking the tip thing or something similar in the movie trainspotting? I'm wondering if I'm remembering it from there rather than real life? I coulda sworn I'd seen my ex partner do it on occasion, among various other really dangerous shooting habits he had, but now I'm not so sure.

I have no clue anymore, i heard it, or saw it somewhere... That's all I remember for sure. :p

It's possible I'm conflating it with a bunch of other ocd-ish habits my ex had in his shooting ritual.

The worst is that he'd insist on flushing the syringe several times after shooting. Doing that had seemed to collapse nearly all his veins. I think that was as much ocd as it was not wanting to waste anything though.
I know I've seen tons of people lick the needle &/or lick the injection site. I'm not from Australia but figured I'd chime in since I've seen it enough to believe that it is a relatively common practice to lick things. As Deru mentioned I also had a friend who did basically the same thing. I haven't seen or spoken to the person in years but they also seemed to get off quite lucky with no real issues despite having the bad practices of licking, etc. that have been mentioned. As someone who is sorta OCD about cleanliness I always cringed. Not that I haven't done some stupid shit myself though. ;)

Generally speaking though I was the opposite. I'd carry around a backpack just for IV supplies. Besides the requisite microns, luer locks, etc. I'd even have a pizza box I'd fold out, put on my lap & cover with clean paper towels so I had a cleaner place to work. It wasn't ideal but it was better than nothing. :\
I got so many strange looks back in the day. I was kind of the odd one out. Most of the people I was around wouldn't think twice before grabbing an uncapped syringe off the floor & using it. Needless to say I got all kinds of shit with my clean surfaces, microns & trademark bottle of rubbing alcohol. =D
I doubt that the practice of licking things is country specific. I would assume some people just do it. I'm not quite sure the rationale for it though. I don't recall ever getting a good answer when I asked people about it. Perhaps it's just a habit or "tic". :unsure:
I might as well have been talking to a wall considering that regardless of how many times I told people that licking things introduced bacteria to things & was not a good idea they continued to do so anyway. They never had an answer as to why they continued the practice. :?
 

JessFR

Sr. Moderator: AADD, H&R
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Messages
8,278
Oh, I just thought of this too. One of my friends used to always lick the needle before injecting, and then would lick the blood after the injection as well right off the wound in an attempt to not waste anything. To this day, after a decade plus of IV use, he is perfectly healthy, never got a blood infection once, and has no collapsed veins even with using lemon juice and vinegar constantly, reusing syringes until the numbers were complete gone, etc. - now that's someone who got off easy!
Yeah it seems really random how some people lose veins so easily and others rarely ever. Often completely at odds with what you'd expect from behavior.
 

JessFR

Sr. Moderator: AADD, H&R
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8,278
I'd carry around a backpack just for IV supplies. Besides the requisite microns, luer locks, etc
I just noticed this, and I feel compelled to ask a question similar to the "who uses cigarette filters" one.

Who uses detachable needles for IV?
I mean sure.. You can.. But they have way too much dead space for my liking.

I might not freak out over the tiniest lost bit of heroin that is almost inevitable, but the bit left behind in the hub of detachable syringes would drive me nuts.

Only time I've used something other than a regular fixed insulin needle or equivalent is when I literally had nothing else.
 

Deru

Bluelighter
Joined
May 18, 2020
Messages
223
In regards to the cottons from the needle exchange, yeah definately if those were available people would choose those over cigarette filters. But, most people don't seem to care much for being safe sometimes, so most people don't bother going to the needle exchange ... or don't have the means to get there ... and everyone smokes cigarettes. That's why it's the go to filter... most times in the car before a score, one person is always taking out a cigarette and ripping off chunks of the filter for everyone else to be prepped and ready to go.

If there were no cigarettes available, honestly I think most people wouldn't even bother filtering sometimes.

I eventually started giving my friends lunch bags and we would fill them up with supplies from the needle exchange. It made life a lot easier. I loved my little lunchbox.

I remember one time debating about ordering micron filters - in my severely addicted brain, it was too hard to justify the wait to order them and I could never afford them anyways.

I bought a 20 dollar scale on Amazon three different times in hopes to be able to weigh out my doses to be safer, within three days of being sick I'd trade the scale for drugs.

I literally had nothing, it was a miserable existence.
 
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JessFR

Sr. Moderator: AADD, H&R
Staff member
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
8,278
In regards to the cottons from the needle exchange, yeah definately if those were available people would choose those over cigarette filters. But, most people don't seem to care much for being safe sometimes, so most people don't bother going to the needle exchange ... or don't have the means to get there ... and everyone smokes cigarettes. That's why it's the go to filter... most times in the car before a score, one person is always taking out a cigarette and ripping off chunks of the filter for everyone else to be prepped and ready to go.

If there were no cigarettes available, honestly I think most people wouldn't even bother filtering sometimes.

I eventually started giving my friends lunch bags and we would fill them up with supplies from the needle exchange. It made life a lot easier. I loved my little lunchbox.

I remember one time debating about ordering micron filters - in my severely addicted brain, it was too hard to justify the wait to order them and I could never afford them anyways.

I bought a 20 dollar scale on Amazon three different times in hopes to be able to weigh out my doses to be safer, within three days of being sick I'd trade the scale for drugs.

I literally had nothing, it was a miserable existence.
Is it fucked up that I kinda find myself missing it reading that? I shouldn't, cause you're right, living that kinda lifestyle is horrible a lot of the time.. But in truth I still miss it a lot of the time too. :(

OK I don't miss being sick all the time. But I dunno.. I still miss it overall.
 

Deru

Bluelighter
Joined
May 18, 2020
Messages
223
Is it fucked up that I kinda find myself missing it reading that? I shouldn't, cause you're right, living that kinda lifestyle is horrible a lot of the time.. But in truth I still miss it a lot of the time too. :(

OK I don't miss being sick all the time. But I dunno.. I still miss it overall.
It's weird, because everyone is always like remember how horrible you feel now to never start using again.

Honestly, I've never experienced that. I literally forget the horrible torture of withdrawals and I look back on it fondly as well.

Some of those times, despite the insanity, were very good in their own unique way.

I don't miss the lifestyle anymore at this point, but I do still find myself some nights, when I'm alone, inspecting my veins and seeing which one I would use first.

It's been over three years since I last IV, it is just baffling how quickly that addiction wires the brain as such.
 

nznity

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Joined
Jan 24, 2017
Messages
1,730
Location
Lima.
It's weird, because everyone is always like remember how horrible you feel now to never start using again.

Honestly, I've never experienced that. I literally forget the horrible torture of withdrawals and I look back on it fondly as well.

Some of those times, despite the insanity, were very good in their own unique way.

I don't miss the lifestyle anymore at this point, but I do still find myself some nights, when I'm alone, inspecting my veins and seeing which one I would use first.

It's been over three years since I last IV, it is just baffling how quickly that addiction wires the brain as such.
The brain remembers fondly the "good times". Sadly, when we relapse it only feels good when you're going to Score. After you go into bathroom, Fix up, enjoy 2 mins of the Rush. The rest Is just pure fucking anxiety, i Starr thinking what am i honna do tomorrow ir i feel [email protected]? And the endless circle begins again.... It's pure insanity.
 

slortaone

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
8,083
Location
hoods up heads down
I'm starting to second guess my memory now.
Was that licking the tip thing or something similar in the movie trainspotting? I'm wondering if I'm remembering it from there rather than real life? I coulda sworn I'd seen my ex partner do it on occasion, among various other really dangerous shooting habits he had, but now I'm not so sure.

I have no clue anymore, i heard it, or saw it somewhere... That's all I remember for sure. :p

It's possible I'm conflating it with a bunch of other ocd-ish habits my ex had in his shooting ritual.

The worst is that he'd insist on flushing the syringe several times after shooting. Doing that had seemed to collapse nearly all his veins. I think that was as much ocd as it was not wanting to waste anything though.
one person i knew many moons ago that licked his sharp liked the taste of that little drop of heroin and i'm sure he knew it wouldn't get him any higher, i told him so but he knew better. also, somehow he thought it helped "lubricate" the shot of his with his sharp that had likely been used 10+ times. he used to call me weird because i refused to re-use a needle and "waste" $7 to buy a fit pack. thats another story.

i tried to explain how dirty the mouth was and it wasn't helping him at all by "lubing" it up. it was his ritual though... no prizes for guessing why i got far from around him real fast. funnily enough though, ive heard that "lube" thing before since then.

reading this thread is just making me glad i haven't used in about a month and have no desire to. stay safe everyone.
 

Deru

Bluelighter
Joined
May 18, 2020
Messages
223
funnily enough though, ive heard that "lube" thing before since then.
Makes sense if he was reusing needles too. They get to a point where you can literally feel the friction and resistance trying to register properly.
 

slortaone

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
8,083
Location
hoods up heads down
Makes sense if he was reusing needles too. They get to a point where you can literally feel the friction and resistance trying to register properly.
i get it man, they get blunt as hell... use water, an alcohol swab just really anything other than your mouth/saliva. thats the only point i tried to get through to him.
 

I_Hate_This_Place

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Messages
430
Location
Buying Real Estate In Imaginary Places
I just noticed this, and I feel compelled to ask a question similar to the "who uses cigarette filters" one.

Who uses detachable needles for IV?
I mean sure.. You can.. But they have way too much dead space for my liking.

I might not freak out over the tiniest lost bit of heroin that is almost inevitable, but the bit left behind in the hub of detachable syringes would drive me nuts.

Only time I've used something other than a regular fixed insulin needle or equivalent is when I literally had nothing else.
I will admit from my experience with using a tip that you would be correct. I would not IV directly from the luer lock syringe with a tip; however. I would use a 3ml luer lock with a Whatman Puradisc 25 to filter the product without using a tip into a sterile container. I would then use a 31g 5/16th insulin syringe to draw up the resulting filtered opioid containing solution & then inject. If I was sure to flush the micron thoroughly I don't believe I lost to much in the way of product. I didn't use microns as I wasn't familiar with them when I began IV usage. Generally speaking I used them as much as possible but it wasn't always possible. I ordered large boxes of Whatman's, luer locks & syringes so I'd generally be well supplied. I don't IV on a regular basis anymore but when I did I always kept my supplies well stocked. When I do decide to partake or need more pain relief I still have said supplies as for me IV is just another ROA. I never had any type of needle fixation or anything like that. I had no problem picking up & putting down the needle at will. Which again from what I understand is not the usual experience. Not putting down opioids mind you; just the needle as a ROA. I still take opioids for pain relief. I also still will use IV administration as needed or warranted. I just don't do so on a regular basis at this point.

I'm somewhat of an oddity with certain things though. I'm on the autism spectrum (Asperger's) & have some eccentricities. My desire for sterility & my desire to use only certain higher quality instruments such as Whatman Puradisc's specifically as I find them to be of a better quality than other brands I'd tried potentially being an example. 😆 To put it simply there were plenty of times when I did not use microns but if possible I did so. Seeing as I kept fully supplied & carried said supplies around I was able to use microns a good portion of the time (in the state I live you can carry needles with a card). Also of note is that in my circle pharmaceutical opioids were far more prevalent than heroin at that time. This makes a big difference when it comes to filtration. At least for me it does. Sometimes a friend would provide quantities of tablets which I would then filter & then split up between those partaking. I also helped provide clean supplies for others pretty often seeing as I carried them around. Generally though I would be the odd man out taking the time to micron. If micron's weren't available I'd say the next best thing I would do was just pre-wet a cotton put it into a luer lock or oral syring & back load filter it through said pre-wet cotton. I know I'm picky about sterility but at the time lets be honest there's no way someone using opioids would pass up a free shot of oxymorphone for example. If my friend was saying hey bro here's some pinkies (Opana IR 10mg) prep us up some shots & I didn't have a micron I'm not saying no. I'm using cotton. ;)

However specifically regarding your inquiry as to loss with detachable syringes I don't believe there is much in the way of product lost when not using a tip & flushing properly. If one uses a tip there is definitely an appreciable amount of product / volume of solution lost. I avoid using any detachable tips in the filtration &/or IV process. I learned that the first time I ordered microns & used luer locks with detachable tips. As you mentioned there was a loss. :\ I haven't purchased or used detachable tips since then for that very reason. I may be understanding wrong as I just noticed you said the hub & I guess there is technically a hub with the micron filter itself attaching to the luer luck but as I stated with proper filtration & flushing I wouldn't expect much of a loss. 🙂
 

OpiateKiller

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
673
I will admit from my experience with using a tip that you would be correct. I would not IV directly from the luer lock syringe with a tip; however. I would use a 3ml luer lock with a Whatman Puradisc 25 to filter the product without using a tip into a sterile container. I would then use a 31g 5/16th insulin syringe to draw up the resulting filtered opioid containing solution & then inject. If I was sure to flush the micron thoroughly I don't believe I lost to much in the way of product. I didn't use microns as I wasn't familiar with them when I began IV usage. Generally speaking I used them as much as possible but it wasn't always possible. I ordered large boxes of Whatman's, luer locks & syringes so I'd generally be well supplied. I don't IV on a regular basis anymore but when I did I always kept my supplies well stocked. When I do decide to partake or need more pain relief I still have said supplies as for me IV is just another ROA. I never had any type of needle fixation or anything like that. I had no problem picking up & putting down the needle at will. Which again from what I understand is not the usual experience. Not putting down opioids mind you; just the needle as a ROA. I still take opioids for pain relief. I also still will use IV administration as needed or warranted. I just don't do so on a regular basis at this point.

I'm somewhat of an oddity with certain things though. I'm on the autism spectrum (Asperger's) & have some eccentricities. My desire for sterility & my desire to use only certain higher quality instruments such as Whatman Puradisc's specifically as I find them to be of a better quality than other brands I'd tried potentially being an example. 😆 To put it simply there were plenty of times when I did not use microns but if possible I did so. Seeing as I kept fully supplied & carried said supplies around I was able to use microns a good portion of the time (in the state I live you can carry needles with a card). Also of note is that in my circle pharmaceutical opioids were far more prevalent than heroin at that time. This makes a big difference when it comes to filtration. At least for me it does. Sometimes a friend would provide quantities of tablets which I would then filter & then split up between those partaking. I also helped provide clean supplies for others pretty often seeing as I carried them around. Generally though I would be the odd man out taking the time to micron. If micron's weren't available I'd say the next best thing I would do was just pre-wet a cotton put it into a luer lock or oral syring & back load filter it through said pre-wet cotton. I know I'm picky about sterility but at the time lets be honest there's no way someone using opioids would pass up a free shot of oxymorphone for example. If my friend was saying hey bro here's some pinkies (Opana IR 10mg) prep us up some shots & I didn't have a micron I'm not saying no. I'm using cotton. ;)

However specifically regarding your inquiry as to loss with detachable syringes I don't believe there is much in the way of product lost when not using a tip & flushing properly. If one uses a tip there is definitely an appreciable amount of product / volume of solution lost. I avoid using any detachable tips in the filtration &/or IV process. I learned that the first time I ordered microns & used luer locks with detachable tips. As you mentioned there was a loss. :\ I haven't purchased or used detachable tips since then for that very reason. I may be understanding wrong as I just noticed you said the hub & I guess there is technically a hub with the micron filter itself attaching to the luer luck but as I stated with proper filtration & flushing I wouldn't expect much of a loss. 🙂
I also use luer lock syringes to draw, but I swap needles to a 25 g 1/2 inch to shoot. I like them a lot better than insulin needles
 
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