crOOk
Bluelighter
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I realize there are two threads about Memantine already, but one of them is 90% OT conversation and the other one is more like an experience report/warning.
Her is some more info:
Her is some more info:
Source: The Entheogen Review, Volume XII, Number 4, Winter Solstice 2003
Memantine hydrochloride is chemically related to the anti-influenza drug amantadine hydrochloride (brand name SYMMETREL®). It has been marketed (under the brand name AXURA®) in Germany since 1989 to treat “dementia syndrome” and Parkinson’s disease, as well as to speed the recovery of comatose patients. It has also been suggested as a treatment for neuropathic pain due to diabetic neuropathy, Huntington’s disease, Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, and AIDS dementia. In the U.S., memantine (under the brand name NAMENDA®) was approved for use on October 17, 2003. It has been shown to reverse existing tolerance to morphine in mice (POPIK et al. 2000), and it has been speculated that N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor antagonists (such as memantine) may be useful in the treatment of alcohol and substance abuse disorders (BISAGA et al. 2000). It has been cautioned that there may be adverse interactions between memantine and MAOI or antidepressant drugs.
According to the site www.memantine.com:
Memantine is used to treat Alzheimer’s disease, and it may be useful in treating mild to moderate cases of vascular dementia. Memantine is the first representative of a new class of Alzheimer’s drugs—a moderate affinity NMDA-receptor antagonist. It has been touted as improving cognitive and psychomotor functioning, providing benefits in the activities of daily living, reducing the dependance on outside care, and is said to have a good tolerability. It is also believe to have neuroprotective effects (by preventing the influx of calcium due to blocking the NMDA receptor in the presence of sustained release of low glutamate concentrations) at the dosages used in treating Alzheimer’s disease (which could slow the progression of the disease). The maximum daily amount recommended to treat Alzheimer’s is 20 mg. Reported side effects more frequent than with placebo (listed second) were: hallucinations (2.0 vs. 0.7%), confusion (1.3 vs. 0.3%), dizziness (1.7 vs. 1.0%), headache (1.7 vs. 1.4%), and tiredness (1.0 vs. 0.3%). [Interestingly, the FDA’s press release at www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2003/NEW00961.html provides higher incidences of adverse reactions, listing dizziness at 7%, headache at 6%, and—not noted above—constipation at 6%.] — EDS.
MEMANTINE HYDROCHLORIDE: A FEW WORDS OF CAUTION
In the interest of harm reduction, I feel compelled to write this report. I have determined that memantine is indeed a psychoactive substance. I have also discovered that there are some potential dangers involved when experimenting with this chemical. I would not want anyone else to unintentionally induce the undesirable effects of taking multiple doses of this drug. There are some potentially serious complications that could occur when experimenting with high doses of memantine. This is how it has since been explained to me by a more knowledgable soul than I:
The problem with memantine is its slow absorption and excretion. It is largely not metabolized, 57–82% is slowly excreted with urine. In clinical applications there is a large accumulation of memantine with only one dose per day. If you are taking a large dose it will take some time until it hits you, and the effect is prolonged, because it remains in the body for a very long time (the half-life is 60 to 80 hours). Taking large doses daily is probably a bad idea.Needless to say I learned this lesson the hard way. Plain and simple, I am at 48+ hours and still feeling the compounded effects of multiple doses.
But for now, on to the good stuff...
I have found that 50–100 mg taken orally is an acceptable dose for a pleasant evening if you can wait one to three hours for the full effects to manifest. One of my first single-dose experiences was at this level, and I noticed very few lingering effects 24 hours later. This leads me to believe that single doses via oral administration may prove to be the best way to experience this substance.
On the other hand, 50–100 mg taken by intramuscular injection (50 mg per ml) provided me with a stinging, itchy, burning sensation in my flesh/muscle, which eventually gave way to a very pleasant, comfortable feeling in mind and body. For five to six hours, I noticed similarities to both ketamine and methylone. Reluctantly, but at the insistence of my tripping partner, I decided to attempt multiple dosing. My friend “C” and I have had incompatible schedules lately, which do not allow us the luxury of shared tripping time. Seeing as how we might not have the opportunity to explore this molecule together again for some time—but against my intuition and better judgement—we re-dosed four times over the course of the next seven or eight hours, at levels ranging from 50 to 100 mg taken by intramuscular injection.
This turned out to be a bad idea. “C” had obligations yesterday that she was unable to fulfill, due to lingering effects and her inability to drive a car. She was reluctantly able to perform some of her obligations today, although she re-dosed with much smaller amounts than I. On the other hand, I am still feeling pretty “warbled out” at 48+ hours, with pending obligations myself, later this evening.
While definite similarities were noted to low doses of ketamine, at no point did I ever experience anything that I would even remotely compare to a breakthrough ketamine experience. Other than the fact they are both NMDA-antagonists, similarities would be that they share the same type of body
signature, driving energy, and create an inability to sleep. I find that when a single oral dose of 50–100 mg is taken, memantine provides a very comfortable, desirable effect, that resonates nicely in my body and mind.
I would not recommend intramuscular injection of this chemical for two reasons. First, the vast majority of this substance commonly available is in a pre-packaged pill form that likely contains binders or other impurities which you would not want to inject into your body. Second, there is a definite stinging sensation present when injecting memantine intramuscularly.
It irritates the tissue at the injection point, leaving an itchy red bump, similar to a bee-sting, that eventually subsides over the course of a few hours, although the pain should be gone within 10–20 minutes.
Additionally, it does not seem that this chemical is readily soluble in water. I was able to mix 50 mg of memantine hydrochloride into 1 ml of distilled water only after applying light heat to increase solubility. If one does not mind waiting
a few hours for the effects to be felt, and due to the pain involved with intramuscular injection, I believe oral administration would be the preferred method at 50–100 mg. I’d also like to add that I tried insufflating a 10 mg line at one point during one of my original experiments. I only managed to snort about 5 mg before I realized it burned. A lot. I thoroughly regretted even attempting such a thing. It was very uncomfortable, to say the least.
It is now 66+ hours, and “C” and myself are both still feeling pretty warbly, although improving. Multiple doses are definitely not recommended unless you have a lot of spare time on your hands. The overall experience from a single administration could be considered rather subtle by some standards,
and one might feel compelled to take multiple doses. Beware of the possible consequences if you choose to do so. And the experience, although highly enjoyable, doesn’t really break into uncharted territory. So is the ride worth the ticket price? The jury is still out on that one.
It has come to my attention that one may be able to clear his or her body of memantine faster, by acidifying one’s urine. Apparently, drinking cranberry juice can aid in this process.
Here is what I have been told by someone more knowledgable than I:
This is how you can get the memantine out of your systemNote by Xerolad:
quickly. Try to acidify your urine. That way, memantine is eliminated 7–10 times faster. There are over-the-counter medications available to acidify the urine too; for example, pills containing methionine, which is used to prevent bladder infections.
"Methionine is ineffective for urine acidification" should read: "Methenamine is ineffective for urine acidification"
I have just awoken at 90+ hours, and I think I’m finally pretty much back to baseline. I feel it is inevitable that someone else is going to attempt experiments with this compound in the future, due to the fact that its potential recreational value has begun to be discussed on the Internet, coupled with the
fact that it has recently been approved as a prescription medication by governments worldwide. It would be a real shame for someone to experiment with multiple and/or high doses of this chemical, without realizing the potential dangers involved. For example, if it was crucial that one should drive a car or perform other obligations 24–72 hours into the experience, I would not want anyone else to be unknowingly forced into such a situation.
Let this also be a lesson to other intrepid psychonauts who attempt experiments with high doses of relatively unresearched substances. I have definitely learned my lesson. It may be possible for some people to reasonably predict the actions of unknown chemicals with a bit of foresight, but the ability to do this is unfortunately not one that I possess. I feel pretty irresponsible at this point in time. Although I dedicated a lot of time to researching the properties of this drug before I consumed it, I was unable to foresee this unexpected turn of events. I sincerely hope this report helps someone else avoid a potentially hazardous situation in the future, and I share this information only because I feel it is inevitable that it will soon be noticed that memantine has potential recreational value. Peace. Go Vegan. — Lazyvegan
Source: The Entheogen Review, Volume XIII, Number 1, Vernal Equinox 2004
MORE ON MEMANTINE HYDROCHLORIDE
With consideration of the words of caution about memantine hydrochloride, presented in the Winter 2003 issue of The Entheogen Review, I want to provide some further information. If memantine is used at the suggested amounts of up to 20 mg per day, it acts like small dose of amphetamine: it enhances vigilance, it is slightly euphoric, and it helps focus one’s concentration. Memantine definitely does not help you to relax. If you take more than the 20 mg per day, it feels as though there is some deep vibration within the body, and insomnia is a result. Future use of memantine will probably be as a replacement for amphetamine or caffeine.
The fastest-acting version available is the liquid preparation, sold in bulk to hospitals at horribly high prices. A prescription is required to obtain this. In liquid form, memantine seems to absorb relatively quickly through the mucous membrane; it tastes bitter and creates a strong cooling sensation on the tongue and within the throat, which takes some getting used to. How long it is in contact with the mucous membranes seems important with regard to its speed of action: the longer one keeps it in one’s mouth, the faster it acts. However, the resulting total effect will be the same if it is swallowed directly—it just takes longer to get there.
If it is not possible to get the liquid version and one still wants to achieve delivery via the mucous membrane, this is not a problem, as the pills dissolve very fast when held in the mouth.
Memantine seems to lower tolerance to substances other than morphine. I found this to occur when I took Psilocybe cubensis, resulting in a valuable overdose. (I had wanted a nice museum-level dosage with no visuals and enhanced thinking abilities; instead, I got some subtle visuals and way too much going on in my mind, using about a quarter of the
mushroom dose that I would have normally needed). I used 10–15 mg of memantine once daily, over the course of four days, so it was about 70 mg memantine in total. Also caffeine seems more potent than usual, so it is more common to have side effects like nausea or cold sweating hands.
The suggested dosing approach is to start using 5 mg per day over the course of five days. After this it is suggested to use 10 mg per day as the regular dosage. Only those using it for treatment of Alzheimer’s disease should take up to 20 mg per day as this dose in healthy people will result in shakiness, insomnia, problems with fine motor coordination (such as is needed to assemble watches), and flashes of euphoria.
The article in the Winter 2003 issue of The Entheogen Review notes that memantine accumulates in the body when used regularly. If one uses memantine for a long period, it takes about one week until it stops acting. So if someone needs to stop using memantine—because limited doses are left and a new supply is not available—it will keep working with a soft downscaling over the course of at least a week. I did not notice any major withdrawal-related problems following the two months that I took memantine. About two to four days after I quit taking it, there were some sensations on my skin at the legs from the knees down. It was as though my lower legs were hyper-sensitive to a light touch. If the skin was touched directly, this was fine. But if something close to them touched them lightly (like a pair of jeans), it felt like the soft burning of nettle. It was not really painful, but noticeable. Also the muscles in my calves felt as though they were going to cramp up, but they never actually did cramp. So it was noticeable when I stopped taking memantine, but not really problematic. (Since the price is so damn exorbitant, this is a good thing!) — E.B., Berlin, Germany
EVEN MORE ON MEMANTINE HYDROCHLORIDE
A strange coincidence occurred. Right about the time my housemate came home one day with a month’s sample supply of memantine hydrochloride, the Winter Solstice 2003 issue of The Entheogen Review arrived in my mailbox. I held the magazine in my lap, and voilà! It fell open to an article on this very compound. It seemed that the gods were conspiring to get me high.
Needless to say, being the devoted psychonaut that I am, I immediately set about coaxing a 100 mg dose out of my housemate. About an hour after taking it, I started to feel slightly altered. How exactly, is hard to describe—just that the world was starting to look somewhat different around the edges. More shimmery and colorful. The drug took about three hours to come on fully, and then—quite frankly—it left me wishing I wasn’t high. And it just went on, and on, and on.
It was very much like the ketamine experience except without any of the cosmic “ah ha!” moments. It had none of the spiritual or emotional insights that ketamine has. My body had that strange puffy feeling, like it was made of styrofoam, the visual environment had a fuzzy cast to it, and it was a little hard to walk or stand up without a wobble. I found myself in a somewhat morose and dissatisfied mood and didn’t know what to do with myself. This could be attributed to my mindset before the trip, but who can say for sure? This continued for a full eight hours, at which point I decided to put myself out of my misery and knock myself out with some benzodiazepines.
Would I try it again? Maybe. It struck my mind at the time that this compound could be made more interesting by combining it with something like MDMA, GHB, or both.
Don’t try combining this drug with ketamine, however (which is like committing some sort of pharmacological oxymoron in the first place). My housemate injected 1 ml of ketamine within 4 hours of having taken 90 mg of memantine hydrochloride, and she had a heretofore unparalleled response to the ketamine. She has built up a very high tolerance for ketamine, and can function normally if the situation calls for it on a dose of this size.
This time she reported to me that, shortly after the injection, she unwittingly exhibited some strange behaviors that were totally out-of-character for her, and then proceeded to completely leave her body. She said that she felt as though she was possessed. Afterwards she had very little memory of what had happened, but it involved a pest control man who had stopped by the house unannounced and the situation developed from there. NOT good. I won’t go into the details, but suffice it to say, don’t be tempted to try these two without supervision, unless you scale way down on your normal dose of ketamine. They appear to potentiate one another a great deal. I guess this could be attributed to the long half-life of memantine hydrochloride.
Happy trips! If you do decide to try this compound, I wish for you a better time than I had. Still, I think that it might warrant further investigation with some additives in the cocktail for spice. — C.H., CA
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