• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

Modified bacteria.

Memeito

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
168
Can a bacteria be genetically modified so it can produce morphine, heroin or other opiates?
Can you imagine how convenient would be to get drugs this way?
Just put some spores on a growth medium and you will get free drugs forever.
Can any bluelighters help me with this?
 
Ok...I've searched a little on the Internet and found some very interesting articles:

http://www.biotechniques.com/news/R...pain-fighting-genes/biotechniques-208313.html

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gen...ts_pin_down_poppys_tricks_for_making_morphine


One researcher modified an E. coli bacteria and stuck a gene from the opium poppy in it's DNA.
He left the bacteria in a flask with some thebaine and overnight the thebaine was converted to morphine!
There are two genes inside the opium poppy(codm and t6odm) that produce enzymes who can convert codeine to morphine in two steps.
If we can modify a bacteria and insert this two genes we could convert codeine to morphine more easily than with any other process!!!

I also found another article where it says that amateurs are starting to dabble with genetic engineering at home.
A programmer wants to insert gene for fluorescence into the yogurt bacteria:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28390773/


What do you think? Is anyone here skilled in genetics and microbiology? Come one, guys! If we work together we can do it!
 
I am, but I don't have any real reason to want to clone the genes to make morphine into yeast. Especially as all you really need to do to get it is grow poppies. If you want opiates for life, an easier and quicker route is to grow poppies, extract the morphine, and then synthesize super-potent morphine derivatives which are much more well studied.

But, who wants a lifetime supply of opiates? Mostly just junkies.
 
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Not an opiate but almost as good as one (personally, I'd say it's even better): THC! ;) Communicated just recently:


Press release of the Technical University of Dortmund, 18.08.2010

Chemists Succeed for the First Time in the Production of the Synthetic Cannabis-Agent

Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient of the Cannabis-plant, could be used by now in many medical fields: In cancer therapy, for the treatment of multiple sclerosis or against chronic pain. The problem is though that the cultivation of Cannabis is restricted almost entirely by the Betäubungsmittelgesetz (BtmG). Only 20 kg per year can be produced, but the actual need is about a ton. An exit to this dilemma is now posed by a procedure, which Prof. Oliver Kayser of the technical biochemistry section of the TU Dortmund has developed: He succeeded for the first time in the heterologous biosynthesis of THC. A biotechnological process is in development in cooperation with Prof. Andreas Schmid from the biotechnology section.

In Germany is THC produced these from hemp, whose cultivation or import is illegal. Because the fibers contain only about 0.2% THC, the production process is accordingly laborious. From the Cannabis-plant, which can contain up to 25% THC, the isolation is not possible due to juridical reasons in Germany. The only remaining loophole is therefore the production of synthetic THC. While the classic synthesis of the Cannabis-agent is extremely expensive and laborious is the biosynthesis developed by Oliver Kayser out of the plant comparably economical and less time-consuming. For this task did the biochemist and his team identify the genes, which are responsible for the production of THC in Cannabis, and isolated them. Subsequently they were transferred into microorganisms, which were then propagated, to produce THC in a bioreactor. The result: Pure THC as heavily isolated agent. [sic!]

“In the context of our works we aim at going even further by implementing the human enzymes as genes in that microorganisms, which already produce THC”, says Oliver Kayser. By this genetic modification of the bacterial metabolic potential it is thought to produce the metabolites, too, which can be provided as references for the forensic analytics of law enforcement agencies to aid in the detection of illegal consumption of hashish. But not only for pharmacy does the process, developed by the biochemists from Dortmund, pose advantages. The synthesis of human metabolites of pharmaceutical agents is a real challenge for chemists, because the liver enzymes can transform them quite selectively and specifically. This chemical modification can be achieved in the laboratory only with much arduousness and with creating immense costs. By the application of human liver enzymes, the so-called cytochromes, can the metabolism, i.e. the chemical modification, be achieved in exactly the same fashion, like in our bodies.

But to get Prof. Kayser’s microorganism-produced THC to the patients, is takes more. At this point comes the chair for biotechnology of Prof. Andreas Schmid into the game. Together shall the process engineering be developed, to obtain an industrial product. For this aim the THC-producing microorganism have to be further optimized, to manufacture THC at greater scale by this way. The biochemists were supported by the company THC Pharm (Note: Thisn was the same company that found JWH-018 in Spice for the first time) and by the R & D-network “ChemBiotec” of the German Federal Foundation “Umwelt” (environment).



With regard to the original question(s):
Memeito said:
Can a bacteria be genetically modified so it can produce morphine, heroin or other opiates?
In theory yes. But it is anything but trivial!

Memeito said:
Can you imagine how convenient would be to get drugs this way?
Just put some spores on a growth medium and you will get free drugs forever.
Oh no, definitely not. You're seriously underestimating the effort and technical equipment needed to a) produce an opiate-producing microorganism, b) to cultivate it in large scale and c) to isolate the alkaloids from it. Theory and practise are a different kettle of fish.


Peace! - Murphy
 
You're seriously underestimating the effort and technical equipment needed to a) produce an opiate-producing microorganism, b) to cultivate it in large scale and c) to isolate the alkaloids from it. Theory and practise are a different kettle of fish.


Peace! - Murphy

Right.....I've read that there are about twenty steps to go from tyrosine to morphine in the poppy plant,however there are only two steps to convert codeine to morphine.

There is an Internet group called DIYBio who tries to make genetic engineering accessible to the average people.... I will investigate this further....
 
It's a bit unrelated but I know a researcher in spain who has made transgenic plants of multiple species which produce THC, but of course they're plants and not bacteria. He's also made transgenic deciduous cannabis plants which regrow from the same stalk every year.
 
I am, but I don't have any real reason to want to clone the genes to make morphine into yeast. Especially as all you really need to do to get it is grow poppies. If you want opiates for life, an easier and quicker route is to grow poppies, extract the morphine, and then synthesis super-potent morphine derivative which are much more well studies.

But, who wants a lifetime supply of opiates? Mostly just junkies.

Can you make us a DMT producing yeast then. You wouldnt have to find the genes either.
 
But, who wants a lifetime supply of opiates? Mostly just junkies.

i dont know why but i just imagined some dude doing that but you know his tolerance grows so his field gets bigger and bigger till its too big and he cant harvest his field and is fiendin so hard he exhausts himself. good story bro.
 
Right.....I've read that there are about twenty steps to go from tyrosine to morphine in the poppy plant

Then that would probably be a no, then. You get into serious deep-magic territory as the number of steps increases. If you remember the carotenoid-producing GM "Golden Rice" some years back, that required four enzyme steps yet took years of work by some very skilled scientists to get around problems with genetic stability and fertility. I think they finally managed it by engineering separate plants with each individual gene, then they went through hundreds of hybrids to combine the parts of the pathway together.

Probably was an easy problem compared to the anti-GM buzzsaw they ran into afterwards, though.

Edit: Mistake, 3 steps in the pathway.
 
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Mushrooms take weeks to grow - a bacteria can multiply very fast.
The E. Coli bacteria is the most used in genetic engineering research. Modified version are used to produce insulin and human growth hormone.
 
Mushrooms take weeks to grow - a bacteria can multiply very fast.
The E. Coli bacteria is the most used in genetic engineering research. Modified version are used to produce insulin and human growth hormone.

There are serious problems using e. coli and other bacteria for genetic injection of codings for enzymes in plasmids, namely that cofactors for many of the enzymes for plants do not exist in bacteria and that any membrane bound proteins are a complete pain in the ass to get into their cell walls (trust me, I've watched people spend half a year trying to clone membrane bound proteins that catalyze reactions into e. coli without any luck at all). This is why yeast is often used instead, but that doesn't always necessarily work instead. You may just have difficulty even finding a host that could take all the genes and convert them into workable proteins.

Can you make us a DMT producing yeast then. You wouldnt have to find the genes either.
The coding for tryptamine n-methyltransferase has been identified for a number of mammals, so possibly it could be cloned in some kind of host, but I'm not terribly sure of the efficacy of the enzyme (not a lot of N,N-DMT is produced in the human brain). The host cell may have to be mammalian in origin for it to work correct, although it is fairly small. SAM-e is also a cofactor and I've seen trouble trying to clone enzymes with this cofactor in e. coli.

I've got no real inclination to do it, though, since N,N-DMT is pretty readily available anyway, from plant origins, and it's not all that interesting.
 
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Is the gene actually expressed in a large volume of brain tissue Nuke, or is it spatially restricted, E.g pineal gland possibly.
 
Mushrooms take weeks to grow - a bacteria can multiply very fast.
The E. Coli bacteria is the most used in genetic engineering research. Modified version are used to produce insulin and human growth hormone.

DMT producing mushrooms would be easy to do. But I couldnt find out whether it would work. Can the methyltransferases in mushrooms use tryptamine as a substrate.
 
Some Japanese researchers stole my idea and did exactly what I proposed on this forum six years ago! Since then, I also talked online with various scientists and they all told me it simply can't be done.
Check this paper that was published two months ago:

Total biosynthesis of opiates by stepwise fermentation using engineered Escherichia coli.
http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2016/160205/ncomms10390/full/ncomms10390.html

Anyone knows how I can sue them for stealing my idea?
 
Right, you're the first person to have ever thought of that. You're an outstanding scientist. Basically you did all the work, and these evil Japanese simply copied it. What a bunch of assholes! Luckily, you filed a bunch of patents. :? 8) 8(
 
=D

I had the idea of building a social network community in 1999 or so, even made a prototype but didn't finish it (no joke, but think I'm not the only one) - can I sue facebook for some billions now? There must be a backup with timestamps somewhere collecting dust,,

Interesting topic though. In some years we can program bacteria to produce our drugs, no more need for shady vendors!!111

(No, I know how it feels when you have an idea nobody believes in, and some years after technology has catched up, a random guy makes fucktons of $$$ with basically the same idea..)

Waiting for my home lab-in-a-box from ebay, but for this we'll need some serious change in laws ...
In the meantime, this pocket spectrometer (?) I just found today looks pretty impressive.
 
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Right, you're the first person to have ever thought of that. You're an outstanding scientist. Basically you did all the work, and these evil Japanese simply copied it. What a bunch of assholes! Luckily, you filed a bunch of patents. :? 8) 8(
I was the first who had this idea, and others simply copied it!

=D
I had the idea of building a social network community in 1999 or so, even made a prototype but didn't finish it (no joke, but think I'm not the only one) - can I sue facebook for some billions now?
Zuckerberg was sued by some other guys who had the idea for Facebook first, you can see this in the movie "The Social Network".

What bothers me is that this invention would probably end in the hands of some greedy corporation and pharmaceutical companies, who will make lots of money from this. I wanted to offer this invention to the whole world for free.
You know those alcohol making kits that contain yeast and nutrients? You add them to some water and sugar and in several days you get a nice alcoholic beverage. I had a dream that one day regular people can do the same thing and make morphine or heroin in their own kitchen.
 
So what was your idea exactly?

"Make bacteria that produce opioids as part of their normal metabolism"? Because like serotonin2A said, the hard part is making the idea work. It's not like they suddenly came together and said "hey, let's make E. coli produce opioids... that be cool, right?", and had it done the next day. If it was that easy, then everyone would do it.
 
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