Opioids Mixing pharmas...again!

[stationdragon]

Hi,

a few days ago some people were helping me on here with what to take and what not to take. I took the advice and decided to stick with what I had already taken because apparently I was approaching dangerous levels for someone who has only been taking these drugs for a couple of weeks.

Once again I'd like some advice if possible guys.

I just woke up and took 1200mg gabapentin and 1.5mg pyrazolam and I'm seriously considering throwing 180mg codeine into the mix too just to take me to that next level because I'm really starting to get a taste for codeine.

The problem is I take 10mg propranolol 3 times a day for anxiety (recently I haven't needed it that much because of all these benzos, but through habit when I wake up I always take my 20mg omeprazole for GERD...or GORD in the UK, which I understand has no interactions with these recreationals I'm taking and my first 10mg of propranolol).

I have heard that propranolol can increase the toxicity of morphine in the blood, would this be the case with 180mg codeine and just 10mg propranolol roughly an hour apart?

Also taking into account the other drugs I've taken which I've already mentioned.

I have a strong suspicion that if I was to take 180mg of codeine right now then I would experience no adverse effects but I thought I should maybe check with you guys first. Especially as the first person who helped me from making a potentially fatal mistake the other night was a chemist.

Appreciate your response and interest guys.

Thanks,

Stationdragon

 

[Kittycat5]

The worries come from morphine possibly increasing the hypotensive effects of propranolol. Dizziness, drowsiness, fainting and such are worries but highly doubt it will occur. You do have several things going that may also produce similar effects, albeit possibly by different mechanism, so be cautious.

 

[Solipsis]

Yeah it can be a problem that propanolol lowers blood pressure, especially if you don't have hypertension, and opiates do too so you may at very least feel dizzy or even pass out. Unfortunately pyrazolam, while not a very physically acting benzo, is also a depressant and gabapentin indirectly since it attenuates the action of stimulatory neurotransmitters.

It's hard to say how much interaction / negative synergy there would be and whether the low blood pressure would make you feel quite uncomfortable or even much worse, but it doesn't seem like a very smart idea at all.

If you want to take such drugs to feel nice, leave out enough of them to avoid physical problems - for relief from your anxiety its way overkill.

The omeprazole is the only one not to have direct interaction on CNS depression / blood pressure but you would have to check if it doesn't interact with liver enzymes which could really make matters even worse.

 

[Kittycat5]

It is a moderate inhibitor of some. Perhaps 2D6 even which may be good or bad in this case depending on how you look at it.

Edit: pretty weak at 2D6, was thinking of 2C19.

 

[stationdragon]

Yeah, I usually leave the propranolol out when I'm taking codeine but it's just been a habit for years and I just reach for it the second I wake up.
To be fair I'm feeling pretty nice with the mix I have right now, just missing that extra edge codeine brings.
As before I'll stick to the advice and err on the side of caution. I'll leave it a few hours before throwing some codeine down me.

Never been into these drugs in my life before at all. I used to hate to take co-codamol but I slipped a disc in December and didn't have much choice. A friend of mine who uses gabapentin recreationally gave me some of that and the hospital gave me 9 low does of diazepam to help my muscles to relax so I could get some sleep.
I rarely touched them after I stopped needing them.
You see, I've been a pot-head for 20 years and I don't know why but for some reason weed has just gone to shit for me recently. Every time I take even the slightest amount I'm in agony, pain in my chest, neck, shoulder and arm, stomach cramps and increased GORD symptoms (the opposite to what I imagine weed would do) but I put it to the test and low and behold this has happened every single time I get high. It's really ruined weed for me after so long of using it. You'd be shocked at how tiny an amount of weed can do this to me, maybe a 20th of a gram...I know right.
I know that after I took psychedelics weed changed for me forever, it instantly became about 100 times stronger and put me in a place I've been less comfortable in, but Ive still enjoyed it and it's never caused me these pains before. I suffer with HPPD as a result of my heavy psych use so I guess it must be something to do with that, not to mention that in the UK we don't have the privilege of choosing our strain of weed like many states in the UK now. We have super strong cheese or super strong haze, that it literally it. I don't want that shit, I didn't grow up with that shit, I grew up with much milder stuff that chilled you out, but these do not.
Perhaps if I can try and source some of that stuff I was into back in the late 90's I might enjoy it more. The UK weed market has really gone to shit in the last 6 to 8 years.

Anyway, as a result of that and me being used to being off my face daily on weed, I can't do that shit any more and I've recently got into these benzos, gabas and opiods. It's just getting the mix right to have a good time and not end up in a black bag due to misadventure. I don't wanna be one of those guys, I have people who care about me and I'd hate to do that to them.

Me, I couldn't give a shit about, if I take too many of these, get drowsy, fall asleep and never wake up I think that would be a lovely way to go, but it's not about me is it, it's about those you leave behind. Plus I'm 32, I wouldn't mind a i bit more living to do, there's still places to see and adventures to have. This is why I appreciate and love you guys for caring so much to try and help me doing something incredibly stupid.

So seriously, thank you for all your advice and I hope I don't end up rattling any cages because of all my silly questions and possibly wanting to push it too far.

Depression can be a bitch but these definitely help more than what the docs would give me.

Stay well guys, peace

 

[stationdragon]

It is a moderate inhibitor of some. Perhaps 2D6 even which may be good or bad in this case depending on how you look at it.

Edit: pretty weak at 2D6, was thinking of 2C19.

Sorry, I'm not very chemistry minded, what does all this mean :/

 

[Kittycat5]

Codeine is coverted to morphine via the liver enzyme CYP2D6. Inhibiting it means less to no morphine formation. But omeprazole only weakly inhibits it and is much more powerful an inhibitor of a different enzyme CYP2C19.

 

[stationdragon]

Codeine is coverted to morphine via the liver enzyme CYP2D6. Inhibiting it means less to no morphine formation. But omeprazole only weakly inhibits it and is much more powerful an inhibitor of a different enzyme CYP2C19.

Ahh thanks for clearing that up.

I knew that the liver converts codeine into morphine (which I am very grateful to my liver for). I would never have even considered that the omeprazole would inhibit this.
I always take my omeprazole first thing in the morning, 20mg. My codeine usage on any normal day would start quite late into the day/evening or even night so I would hope that this would be less of a factor.

But like you said, it only has a weak effect anyway.

You chemists...gods of this forum (I am not worthy)

PS. Thanks for keeping me safe the other night, can't thank you enough for your advice. My inhibitions had taken a trip to fuckoffsville so you helped to be my little jiminy cricket on my shoulder, whispering the right advice into my ear

 

[Bomb319]

As a general rule of thumb, turning your body into a chemostry lab is a very bad idea. While I can of course understand the temptation to try a new drug cocktail, the sad fact is that thousands of people die every DAY from doing exactly this. If you absolutely must do it, then I would recommend that you start off with the smallest possible dose of each, then gradually work your way up over time or on different occasions so you have a better idea of your limits. Just remember - you can always take more of a drug if it doesn't hit you as hard as you'd like, but you can never take back a fatal OD.

 

[Bomb319]

You should also know that Pyrazolam is NOT metabolized at all; it's excreted entirely unchanged (in urine).

 

[stationdragon]

So are you saying pyrazolam is pretty safe in that sense then?
In...buzz...out?

 

[Kittycat5]

Ahh thanks for clearing that up.

I knew that the liver converts codeine into morphine (which I am very grateful to my liver for). I would never have even considered that the omeprazole would inhibit this.
I always take my omeprazole first thing in the morning, 20mg. My codeine usage on any normal day would start quite late into the day/evening or even night so I would hope that this would be less of a factor.

But like you said, it only has a weak effect anyway.

You chemists...gods of this forum (I am not worthy)

PS. Thanks for keeping me safe the other night, can't thank you enough for your advice. My inhibitions had taken a trip to fuckoffsville so you helped to be my little jiminy cricket on my shoulder, whispering the right advice into my ear

Im good at giving advice but terrible at listening to myself as well.

 

[stationdragon]

Somone's gonna come and kick me u the arse for this in a minute I'm sure.

Today I decided to taka 900mg gabapentin and 1.5mg pyrazolam for breakfast. It got me through the day because I feel that the gaba is great for mood and social interaction whilst pyrazolam gives me that relaxing, anti-anxiety benzo feeling without the sedation. So I can still function whilst having and great time and easily just sort of let the world pass me by.

A few hours I knew a couple of friends were coming 'round because I've had a difficult time of late dealing with some PTSD from a terrible incident that still affects me to this day (among many other problems that came along with it). So I had a full on panic attack and called around all my friends to see who could come and keep me company, so to help me with this I took a further 900mg gabapentin, 120mg codeine and 20mg diazepam.
After a couple of hours I took a further 10mg diazepam.
Eventually it all started to take hold but I've been very comfortable and functional all night.

As they were leaving I went for the codeine and almost down a further 120mg, then I thought no, I just want another 10mg diazepam.
Whilst I'm thinking about this I'm typing up a message to a friend and realise I'm struggling to read the words I'm writing so I start having second thoughts.

It's like I realise I'm fucked (sorry, not sure of the rules of swearing on this site so I'm gonna assume it's not a problem unless I'm told otherwise) but I want just a that little bit more.

What I want to know is, although I'm quite aware that here in this moment I'm totally off my head, I want just that little bit more. Am I safe to take anything more? Especially with the mix of different CNS depressants I already have in my body is 10mg more diazepam or 60mg more codeine going to put me in danger? (Yes, I decided that 120mg more codeine is just something I don't think I can take right now).

I'm sorry I keep coming back asking these questions but I just don't wanna end up one of these death by misadventure guys tonight.

Quick reply to this would be very appreciated because my inhibitions are very much out the window, I'm looking for some insane high and I'm already very, very buzzed.

Obviously I'm developing a tolerance to this stuff otherwise I wouldn't be able to do what I have done tonight but this has only been building over the last fortnight but I've been hitting it hard.

Yes this is complete abuse I'm aware of that but this is the point, I'm going through something and for the first time in my life I'm dealing with it by mixing gaba, codeine and benzos in varying amounts and combinations.

What should I do tonight. Shall I just accept where I am and leave it or would it be ACTUALLY I could die tonight dangerous is if I take what I have proposed.

So, so, so sorry to keep coming back and asking for advice on the safest way to abuse these drugs and not kill myself in the process

 

[Kittycat5]

I would probably lay off of everything. Your feeling buzzed, your inhibitions are down, and still have some lingering anxiety or emotional distress. I am concerned that you may overdo the benzos and start blacking out and then all bets are off. And adding more codeine or gabapentin won't help the blackout possibility and is potentially dangerous.

I know PTSD can be very, very rough but drugs aren't the whole answer. Is there anything you do to help yourself through these situations that doesn't include them?

 

[stationdragon]

Hi Kitty,

Just wanted to put your mind at ease and explain that I have decided not to push this any further tonight.
Unfortunately I have no intentions on stopping this any time soon. I know that is ridiculous for a guy who never did this type of stuff before, just smoked weed for 20 years and dabbled heavily in psychedelics during varying eras of my life but this is how I'm choosing to deal with things at this moment.
It doesn't help that I have around 400 pills knocking about at the moment and taking these doesn't visually have any impact on my supply going down so psychologically that probably makes a difference.
If I too anything else when I said I would then I would have definitely blacked out and I don't know anything about that AT ALL.

I've been through hell on several occasions in my life, I have PTSD from one main one and the other stuff is just there not helping, lingering, causing me intense pain.

I don't usually suffer so bad with it I can be weak but generally I'm a strong person and even I don't know it's tearing me up inside, let alone the people around me. I'm the kinda guy that just lets it all build and build and build and bottle it all up until a big event happens. May is a particularly bad month for me, I don't want to say what but a lot of terrible things happened to me in more than one May in my life. I'm talking life changing, path altering, never the same person kind of shit.

I grew up in an area of heroin addicts and they used to steal from me when I was just 9 years old and up until I was 17 when I finally had enough and fought back. They used to steal from their own grandparent and would take anything that wasn't nailed down so I ALWAYS stayed away from the opiates.

I'm more of an enlightened person, especially with all the psychs I've done in my life, more of a hippie kind of person but nowhere near full on. Imagine a hippie(ish) and pagan(ish) sort of outlook but with heavy rock/metal friends but everyone very affectionate towards each other. Few mates but REALLY good mates who would do anything for each other.

I've been to a psychotherapist but that didn't help because it's too arranged, you get yourself all ready for your appointment and then you go and speak to someone in a clinical way and with bullet points and goals and checkpoints. It's just not real enough, they don't see you in your real life at your real worst.
Weed has ALWAYS been the thing for me but it's gone to shit for me. Every time I take even the tiniest amount I'm in agony, my chest hurts, arms hurts, neck hurts, feel sick and get stomach cramps. I've been doing weed for years but this is all new. Unfortunately where I'm from people only want cheese or haze so it's a good 15-25% THC and that's just not what I grew up with in the late 90's early 2000's.
Anyway, weed isn't an option any more, I'm taking benzos, gabapentin and codeine to deal with my most recent meltdown. Yes I'm falling wildly into a black hole, yes I'm going to go through horrible withdrawals and yes I'm most likely going to have to tell my doctor about this so he/she can safely help me taper off the dangerous ones. At least I'm not going in unaware of this so there's no surprises there for me.

Have you considered that maybe I want to do this to myself? I do want this, I want this high, I want this ignorance, I want everything that comes along with this but I'd rather avoid the death. If I do die it will be peaceful for me and I won't even know about it but I have people who love me and that is what matters. I don't care about dying, in fact I'm excited about it and I will embrace my death fully when it occurs but I do not by any means want to cause any person any pain by me accidentally ODing on these drugs trying to achieve something inside myself that I cannot explain.

I have no skills other than drug related, I've been to jail for something I didn't do, I've been to jail for something I did do, I have a whole host of health problems both mental and some physical, one self inflicted, a couple from birth and others that have developed over the years. As a result I haven't worked for 10 years and I have to fight to get my income from the Government so that I can survive. I'm only 32 years old and my daily life has become a very stale and repetitive experience and on top of that I have stresses that no one would believe. It's a miracle I haven't had a complete breakdown already, with so many terrible things out of my control that are happening to the people I love and all I can do is watch or hear stories. That must have been how my family felt when I was in jail and they knew I was innocent, it must have been awful for them but I can't even begin to explain what it was like for me. People say it's a lot worse for the people who are left behind when someone goes to jail, well I'll tell you now that is just laughable. I know my family and friends suffered, but they could go out, be with friends, forget about it for a while. When you're in jail, you're in jail and there's no escape from any of it.

I can't go on, I've babbled enough and there's people here probably thinking oh just shut the fuck up, but my pain is my pain and at this time I'm dealing with it in this way. I'm just trying not to kill myself in the process.

Again I am so sorry.

You are wonderful people and I'm just this pond scum who's just turned up asking all these dumb questions and moaning about shit that people don't care about.

Sorry. Take care

 

[Kittycat5]

Im just trying to keep you with us. I have none of that in my history and still decided to waste much of my life on opioids, mixed with just about anything else so not judging. Two of the only absolute truths I know about myself is I will forever love opioids and I despise having to stop them.

If we had talked about a year and a half ago, I wouldnt be qualified in the slightest to talk about using drugs to escape my personal issues, as I was certainly hooked for about 16 years with 3 to 4 years of dabbling before that, I expressly used drugs to enhance my experiences not run away from issues. But Ive been going through a rough patch, mostly marriage issues, and I would be a liar if I said using opioids, benzos, amphetamine etc didnt make things easier. I know this isnt PTSD, but you get what Im saying.

If these drugs are a stopgap until you figure out what you need to do to get better, I couldnt and wouldnt fault you for using them. My only cooncerns are you dont turn this into a fullblown habit and you dont hurt yourself. Neither are wonderful experiences for the strongest of us and fear it could worsen your symptoms. Im here a lot man, and look Im a mod now (I got power ) so feel free to message me whenever.

 

[stationdragon]

Not much to say today. I've said enough, too much even. But I have made it blindingly obvious I'm in a lot of pain, emotionally.

I used to be on Facebook, a regular, daily user but I deactivted my account the other day because someone I have helped and been there for totally selflessly decided to push me over the edge and as I said May is not the time to do that to me.

I'm lost without Facebook, so thanks for listening to me whine and letting me vent. It means the World to me.

Sometimes it feels like the World has gone so crazy, no-one cares any more. It's become every man/woman for him/herself. I've always put other people first because I can't even look myself in the mirror, let alone try to love or help myself.

So for what it's worth, thanks for sharing and thanks for listening.

Stationdragon x

 

[Kittycat5]

Yeah, I know. Dont worry about venting a bit. To be honest, it helps me to forget about my own shit for awhile, of which it has, at least for today, taken a turn for the worse. Im not keen on saying tons about it but have zero issues listening and trying to help.

You may consider posting in the Dark Side or Mental Health forums about your PTSD. They do good work there, have more experience than I about such things, but must warn. It can get a bit depressing sometimes so don't necessarily go there at your lowest. But they are good people so don't worry about that.