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Methamphetamine-Studies of efficacy compared to AMPH, and for treating negative SZ symptoms

Dr Jekyll

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I'm wondering if anyone has any studies of comparing METH to AMPH for treating either/or ADHD and negative symptoms of schizophrenia?

Thanks.
 

SkylarRaine

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The best website I've ever used, I have linked for you below⬇. The link leads to a clinical study on the use of stimulants for treating ADHD symptoms. This study, is one of many other similar clinical studies done on treating ADHD with stimulants. You can use the search feature on the website to find any clinical trial or study report out there that was documented, including any clinical study report data on the use of stimulants for Schizophrenia symptom treatment/management.
I have personally used the site for years, and have found out all kinds of info from the reports that are on there. It truly is an amazing resource tool for finding information, and I have used it for so long that I consider it reliable enough to say "If there was a clinical study done on it, then it's most likely going to be found on ncbi.-"
Good luck, I hope I helped atleast partially answer your question. Good luck, and have fun researching! 😉
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:
"Using Stimulants for Attention Deficit/ Hyperactivity Disorder"12300
(Screenshot: Table containing all the Stimulants used in study. In this screenshot you can see that Desoxyn was included, which is considered pharmaceutical grade methamphetamine)
 

Wilson Wilson

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Hang on... meth to treat schizophrenia? Well that's certainly a new one to me.

OP you've made a couple threads about self-medication of ADHD with meth now, and I can't help but wonder if you are just looking for confirmation bias to tell yourself it's healthy.

The therapeutic doses for Desoxyn are far lower than the doses of illicit meth you've mentioned taking in the other thread. Additionally, d-meth is likely far cleaner than racemic meth, same as dexamph (Dexedrine) is cleaner than racemic amphetamine (Adderall). So you can't really directly compare the two. Different effects, different side effects, different toxicity profiles.

If you genuinely do want to treat your ADHD rather than abuse stims to get high, I recommend getting yourself a script for Adderall, Vyvanse, Dexedrine, etc.
 

d1nach

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Have you tried looking into a antipsychotic with 5ht2a antagonism? I have heard it is supposed to help with negative symptoms.

I dont think amphetamines would be a likely choice despite the appeal of maybe short term relief because the dopaminergic effects seem opposite to most antipsychotics which i believe antagonize dopamine d2 receptors.

I am not a professional so i could be wrong but my guess is if you took amphetamine you may have a dramatic decrease in negative symptoms but over the term your schizophrenia especially positive symptoms would get worse and any antipsychotics you take might no longer be as effective.

If you do choose to use amphetamines please use a doctor. Self medication can be a disaster and in the case of a acute episode it can be hard if it not impossible to monitor yourself.
 

d1nach

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I found one link that claims amphetamine increased negative symptoms due to a increase in emotional withdrawal as well as a increase in positive symptoms


I would consider using scholar.google.com

Also, you may want to look into studies about using amphetamine in rats as a model for schizophrenia.
 

Mr.Deeds

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I can imagine that it might help the negative thought loops that occur with schizophrenia. But overall it would probably worsen things as the illness progresses. I will look for a few studies that talk about this as well and see what we find, curious now.
 

Wilson Wilson

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Yeah as @d1nach said, amphetamines do the exact opposite to antipsychotics. They may provide short-term relief through the initial euphoria, but the mechanism of action for amphetamine is literally flooding the brain with dopamine. That is the opposite of what you want for psychosis.

Amphetamines are contraindicated in people with a history of psychosis or mania if you read any patient information leaflet for them.
 

SkylarRaine

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amphetamines do the exact opposite to antipsychotics. They may provide short-term relief through the initial euphoria, but the mechanism of action for amphetamine is literally flooding the brain with dopamine. That is the opposite of what you want for psychosis.
Hang on... meth to treat schizophrenia? Well that's certainly a new one to me.
The schizophrenia thing completely went over my head when I first replied to OP. You have been spot on with your replies though. Treating Schizophrenia with methamphetamine can best be compared to trying to put out a fire with gasoline. Meth alone can cause symptoms of paranoia, hallucinations, emotional instability, and psychosis. Researchers have referenced Schizophrenia in several documents on Meth Psychosis, and the reason is because patients suffering from psychosis exhibited many similar behaviors and symptoms as those suffering from schizophrenia.
.... So bottom line, it's best to seek out other options or research all the risks, and possible outcomes of continuing your preferred method of treatment OP.
 

Mr.Deeds

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I had looked at over 15 or so articles and couldn't find any data good enough to post on here to strengthen this hypothesis OP. Many of the studies I read mentioned that it helped with the depression and other negative thought loops in the short-term, but ultimately the consensus is that it is not advisable due to what others have already mentioned. And there are way better ways to treat the negative symptoms of schizophrenia than any amphetamines. Hell, there are better ways to treat regular depression than to use meth. This is a very complex disorder and playing with stims is asking for trouble, in the long term at least. You never know when the flip to positive symptoms will occur.
 

Wilson Wilson

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I had looked at over 15 or so articles and couldn't find any data good enough to post on here to strengthen this hypothesis OP. Many of the studies I read mentioned that it helped with the depression and other negative thought loops in the short-term, but ultimately the consensus is that it is not advisable due to what others have already mentioned. And there are way better ways to treat the negative symptoms of schizophrenia than any amphetamines. Hell, there are better ways to treat regular depression than to use meth. This is a very complex disorder and playing with stims is asking for trouble, in the long term at least. You never know when the flip to positive symptoms will occur.
Personally I find regular pharma amphetamines (Adderall, Vyvanse, Dexedrine, etc) are effective for depression alone and although I am scripted them for ADHD I told my psychiatrist they're helpful for my depression as well so I have them instead of an antidepressant to unofficially treat depression. Not 100% effective by any means but at therapeutic doses it does work very well with far fewer side effects than nasty SSRIs or TCAs.

But that being said I certainly would never in a million years recommend any amphetamines for someone with schizophrenia or any other psychosis, nor would any doctor in their right mind. It would cause far more problems than it'd solve.
 

Wubb

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Dr Jekyll please tell Mr Hyde not to treat his schizophrenia with methamphetamine, trying to self medicate with amphetamines is almost impossible. You need a doctor not a drug dealer.
 

AlphaMethylPhenyl

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There is one study with Haldol and amphetamine that seemed to find positive effects. But Haldol bind to D2 really closely and is a sort of gold standard for agitation, such that amphetamine might cause.

Shire tried to push vyvanse for this indication, which it wasn't accepted.

Way back when, amphetamine was given for this. But it was also used for 10's of disorders.

I'd really stay away from meth or desoxyn or whatever form of it.

Methylphenidate is generally a better idea than amphetamine if this is a valid indication.

Also, a few years of being on an antipyshcotic and being totally clean should precede any such possible action.

Clozapine is the best antipsychotic. That's pretty well-concurred.

What does your doctor say about this? As was said, self-medication is asking for a nasty and degenerative habit.
 
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