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Meth and your muscles

Bad_Boy_Blue

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runner_man said:
That's a good point about drawing a conclusion based on one person's experience, but that's what you are doing when you say that you have not had a problem yet with meth or GHB and therefore they are not addictive. Look around you, there are many casualties from both of these substances.

I've never tried meth. It's never been proven that GHB is clinically addictive. There have only been reports of a few people becoming addicted to GHB after chronic use.

From personal experience and the experience of many others, I can quite confidently say that it's fairly hard to get addicted to GHB if used sensibly.

There haven't been any deaths from GHB alone (or if there have been they haven't been reported). GHB has a fairly good safety profile if not mixed with other depressants.
 

Bad_Boy_Blue

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Oceanbear said:
Not true. Go and do a bit of reseach on the relation of dopamine and hormonal activity in the body as well as the relation of dopamine and methamphetamine. Checkout the relation of serotonin/melatonin and meth use also while you're at it.

If you still don't see any correlation, then it appears that you are only rationalizing your use of methamphetamine.

I did the reasearch, only to find that there is a negligible effect subjectively between the effects on amine production (dopamine and NE) and the effects of meth.
 

southernheathen

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Feb 6, 2004
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I've been training for 10 years and working at a gym for 4 years, I can assure you the pros use everything under the sun, seen it first hand. It's all about balance. I have 3 friends who were past Mr. Georgias, and can say I have seen them do everything. They will pop a couple of tabs, coke, meth, and you don't even want to know about the pain pills. Kind of funny when these guys are trashed and sipping on meal replacements and vitamins so they don't lose any weight and the juice helps counter the negative effects. Did you not hear the story about the pro who came to Ga. and after taking too much e he started dancing on the pole at the strip club. He didn't get thrown out but he was a fucked up site for sure. LOL saw the whole thing so I know it is true, and he is always near the top at every contest he enters.

Anyways it can't be good, at the very most you will just maintain your size and not gain. Kind of like that mark kerr special where you find out hes hooked on drugs...but he's in such great shape so you think nah he can't be doing that.
 

Bad_Boy_Blue

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Genetics, training and diet aside; the pros usually get to where they are as a result of their liberal drug use.

I have to admit that I am somewhat similar, in that I will try and regularly use many substances.
 

biofluke

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Jun 20, 2003
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I know it wasnt healthy... but the best cutting "cycle" that I have ever done was while I was on about 40mg/day of Anavar which I made from powder, along with EOD shots of 100mg Test Prop and 75mg Masteron. These are very low doses mind you, and all I was trying to do was maintain muscle mass while dieting. I am also prescribed dexedrine for add, which made keeping diet in line easy. Once school was over, I did a few allnight binges on dexedrine and the result: I got fucking ripped as hell without loosing any muscle mass. Mind you, even while binging... I took in about 300g of protien and adequete complex carbs. Kept training regularly with proper post-workout supplementation and all that. In the end I ended up gaining a bit of strength while getting cuts and vascularity that really had me shocked to look in the mirror.

Oh and while I was binging on the dex I would also have a little bit of Valium in me. Benzos are actually very well known surpressors of cortisol.

Something that I have noticed though, that if i take stims without some sort of benzo I appear to enter a MUCH more catabolic state. Muscles are sore and feel weak, and noticeable strength was lost.

NOW here is when people run into problems: Once you resume your regular daily workouts and diet without the addition of amphetamines ... it is not only very difficult to watch your diet but most importantly be constantly motivated to train. After this was all said and done, and I decided to take the summer off from the dexedrine... i have put on alot of weight in my midsection and had to struggle to train as often as I should. It took me about a month - 2 months to resume regular energy levels and positive mindset. I dont think I even have to mention the depression experiance while coming off of the juice AND the dexedrine at the same time. Talk about a mindfuck. Even after proper post-cycle therapy (clomid and all that kinda stuff) it took me quite a while to feel "normal". Even now, 3 months later, I still dont feel like the god that I did before.

The whole experiance made me extremely manic. I felt like a god, always. It was definately a harsh transition once it was all over. Im still in good shape, strong, with a little bit of extra pudge (I just basically consider this phase a bulking phase), but in no way will I ever reach the constant level of astronomical confidence and overall euphoria that I have for nearly the whole semester.

Anyways, just my 2 cents about drug use and bodybuilding. Especially when combined with juice... it can really cripple your life after its all over. I cant even imagine doing it with meth.. at least dextroamphetamine is somewhat clean and doses were very low all the while. PM me if ya'll have any questions....

-biofluke v2
 

AznRaver

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runner_man said:
I'm not opposed to anything that has clear benefits and does minimal harm, I just think that if you look at the big picture, its hard to make that case for meth, and a lot easier to make that case for steroids.

Do you know this is a pro-drug board? clear benefits with roids and not meth? so you say. your selfishness, close-mindedness and ignorance is unrivaled! get lost!
 

AznRaver

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Bad_Boy_Blue said:
It's never been proven that GHB is clinically addictive. There have only been reports of a few people becoming addicted to GHB after chronic use.



There haven't been any deaths from GHB alone (or if there have been they haven't been reported). GHB has a fairly good safety profile if not mixed with other depressants.

GHB is not clinically addictive. any addiction to G is an individual and subjective experience. GHB is one of the safest drugs and non-toxic. This however is not the case with GBL or 1,4.
 

runner_man

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Joined
Jun 23, 2004
Messages
60
This is from today's New York Times Science section:

This Is Your Brain on Meth: A 'Forest Fire' of Damage
By SANDRA BLAKESLEE

Published: July 20, 2004

People who do not want to wait for old age to shrink their brains and bring on memory loss now have a quicker alternative - abuse methamphetamine for a decade or so and watch the brain cells vanish into the night.

The first high-resolution M.R.I. study of methamphetamine addicts shows "a forest fire of brain damage," said Dr. Paul Thompson, an expert on brain mapping at the University of California, Los Angeles. "We expected some brain changes but didn't expect so much tissue to be destroyed."

The image, published in the June 30 issue of The Journal of Neuroscience, shows the brain's surface and deeper limbic system. Red areas show the greatest tissue loss.

The limbic region, involved in drug craving, reward, mood and emotion, lost 11 percent of its tissue. "The cells are dead and gone," Dr. Thompson said. Addicts were depressed, anxious and unable to concentrate.

The brain's center for making new memories, the hippocampus, lost 8 percent of its tissue, comparable to the brain deficits in early Alzheimer's. The methamphetamine addicts fared significantly worse on memory tests than healthy people the same age.

The study examined 22 people in their 30's who had used methamphetamine for 10 years, mostly by smoking it, and 21 controls matched for age.

Methamphetamine is an addictive stimulant made in clandestine laboratories nationwide. When taken by mouth, snorted, injected or smoked, it produces intense pleasure by releasing the brain's reward chemical, dopamine. With chronic use, the brains that overstimulate dopamine and another brain chemical, serotonin, are permanently compromised.

The study held one other surprise, Dr. Thompson said: white matter, composed of nerve fibers that connect different areas, was severely inflamed, making the addicts' brains 10 percent larger than normal. "This was shocking," he said. But there was one piece of good news: the white matter was not dead. With abstinence, it might recover.
 

AznRaver

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runner_man said:
This is from today's New York Times Science section:

This Is Your Brain on Meth: A 'Forest Fire' of Damage
By SANDRA BLAKESLEE

Published: July 20, 2004

who cares, you can find a similar article on AAS abuse. any type of drug abuse entails consequences. But, it's not for YOU to decide what i choose to do. i believe in our rights to use recreational drugs responsibly as an adult. drugs may not be right for everyone and i do not condone it's use, but no one should restrict my liberties to do it if i choose to. individual choices, individual responsibility and unlimited liberties is what i believe in. remember that!
 

yougene

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May 19, 2003
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Amphetamines can increase peak performance if used properly. In the longrun however it seems better to do it without them. The Russian military has used and still probably does use amphetamine in the training of their soldiers. In the Air Force pilots are commonly given Dexedrine to fly and in many cases are required to take it.

Amphetamines can enhance your peak performance if proper dosage, proper timing of administration, and proper set of mind is used. This ofcourse is potentially dangerous so small doses need to be taken which is all you need for the boost anyway. If the dosage timing is off than it may actually hamper the performance of your training.

I made many(if not most of my gains) in weight training right after taking adderal. But it became a problem when I couldn't do the same thing when not on adderal. Really amphetamines may hamper your progress because you simply will not be able to progress without them. Ever tried doing something productive you would usually use amphetamines for without the amphetamines?


Still there seems to be potential here but I doubt anyone would really be able to unlock it unless accompanied by a trainer that trains with amphetamines.

Don't take my word for it though, I'm no professional and this may just be ridiculously stupid.
 

AznRaver

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shakawkaw said:
AznRaver, I care... if you don't like it don't read it, What the hell is wrong with posting information?!




I have only blown like a little over a gram of amphetamine through my nose in pretty small doses over the course of a month... and even though it's not meth i'm using, reading that article made me rethink about using speed more frequently in the future :\

I knew speed kills braincells but I didn't know this stuff is so fucked up.
Does anyone know if there's a difference between the damage done from meth and regular amphetamine? and how about coke vs meth damage?

well you should care. i believe in the responsible use of recreational drugs legal or not for adults. daily amphetamine intake to me is not responsible. that becomes neurotoxic and burns you out in the long run. i'm not condoning the use of drugs on a daily basis. that would be harmful and irresponsible. i would say that the use of amphetamines 1 or 2 a month is responsible and "safe(r)" IMO. but in the end, i believe adults should have unlimited liberties and take responsiblility for their own actions.
 

AznRaver

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shakawkaw said:
Does anyone know if there's a difference between the damage done from meth and regular amphetamine? and how about coke vs meth damage? [/B]

mg for mg meth is most neurotoxic. but, that also depends on how much and how long you are taking these drugs. it's all relative. doing dexedrine daily vs 8-ball of coke in 2months(my personal habit), i would say daily dex is more neurotoxic. the take home message is all amphetamines or amphetamine like drugs are neurotoxic esp in chronic/daily use of them. Education, harm-reduction and self responsibility is a must with any drug use.
 

runner_man

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Joined
Jun 23, 2004
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I don't disagree with you on the specific point that controlled use of speed in pure form is not problematic. But pretending that this is possible for most people is just not reality. How many of the chronic users in the study do you suppose said to themselves "I am certainly not going to become addicted to this, I have it under control". My money says every single one of them started that way.

And the NYTimes has published two or three articles recently on steroids that offer a realistic assesment - and the damage they did cite was no where NEAR the damage caused by meth use - 11% of portions of the brain, disappeared completely. That is heavy shit. This is not a Reader's Digest screed against drugs we are talking about, its a summary of published medical research. Further, in profiling steroids, they cited a number of long term benefits benefits - what benefits do you see in long term meth use?

That said, I am not telling you what to use, I am saying meth is dangerous because of its addictive potential, and because of its destructive nature, generally runs counter to the goal of improving one's body.
 

AznRaver

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runner_man said:
I don't disagree with you on the specific point that controlled use of speed in pure form is not problematic. But pretending that this is possible for most people is just not reality.



That said, I am not telling you what to use, I am saying meth is dangerous because of its addictive potential, and because of its destructive nature, generally runs counter to the goal of improving one's body.

i'm going to address these two points before i call you an anti-drug bullshitter! first, it is reality that people can use meth responsibly with minimal damage. if somone was to abuse meth, it is still their perogative. don't blame the drug. blame the person! it might as well be aas, alcohol, cigs, guns, or fast food that is abused. it's not you nor the government to decide what i do with my body.

and with your second point, not everyone is into "improving" one's physique, but rather their minds. and don't think taking roids, packing on 50 pounds of muscle, eating above maintenance, and lifting heavy is actually good for your health or in extending your life. it's for pure vanity. the life extensioners would argue otherwise the merits of bodybuilding and health. But, we still do it and accept whatever consequences as bodybuilders.

now, im going to address the bullshit article you posted on meth to fit your anti-drug campaign.
 

AznRaver

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runner_man said:
This is from today's New York Times Science section:

This Is Your Brain on Meth: A 'Forest Fire' of Damage
By SANDRA BLAKESLEE

Published: July 20, 2004

People who do not want to wait for old age to shrink their brains and bring on memory loss now have a quicker alternative - abuse methamphetamine for a decade or so and watch the brain cells vanish into the night.

The first high-resolution M.R.I. study of methamphetamine addicts shows "a forest fire of brain damage," said Dr. Paul Thompson, an expert on brain mapping at the University of California, Los Angeles. "We expected some brain changes but didn't expect so much tissue to be destroyed."

The image, published in the June 30 issue of The Journal of Neuroscience, shows the brain's surface and deeper limbic system. Red areas show the greatest tissue loss.

The limbic region, involved in drug craving, reward, mood and emotion, lost 11 percent of its tissue. "The cells are dead and gone," Dr. Thompson said. Addicts were depressed, anxious and unable to concentrate.

The brain's center for making new memories, the hippocampus, lost 8 percent of its tissue, comparable to the brain deficits in early Alzheimer's. The methamphetamine addicts fared significantly worse on memory tests than healthy people the same age.

The study examined 22 people in their 30's who had used methamphetamine for 10 years, mostly by smoking it, and 21 controls matched for age.

Methamphetamine is an addictive stimulant made in clandestine laboratories nationwide. When taken by mouth, snorted, injected or smoked, it produces intense pleasure by releasing the brain's reward chemical, dopamine. With chronic use, the brains that overstimulate dopamine and another brain chemical, serotonin, are permanently compromised.

The study held one other surprise, Dr. Thompson said: white matter, composed of nerve fibers that connect different areas, was severely inflamed, making the addicts' brains 10 percent larger than normal. "This was shocking," he said. But there was one piece of good news: the white matter was not dead. With abstinence, it might recover.

do you guys see anything wrong with this article? this is not the whole article. this shithead cropped it to fit his anti-drug campaign. i will post the entire article tomorrow and we'll analyze it together. i smell bullshit!
 

herb311

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Meth will fry your CNS. Fryed CNS=SHit recovery and shit strength gains. Meth is shit, either get off it and get big or keep using and be a skinny meth head. Choice is yours
 

AznRaver

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runner_man said:
That article is the online version Ansraver. No cropping or editing.

oh really? you bullshitter! i've posted the full article below. see what i bolded that this asshole left out? if it doesn't bold, it's the last sentence of the sixth paragraph which reads, "On average, the addicts used an average of four grams a week and said they had been high on 19 of the 30 days before the study began." he conveniently left that part out. you'll see why in a minute.

that sentence basically discredits the whole article and study. we will go over this article. just to let you know, one of my many degrees is a masters in public health from BU which makes me more than qualified in reading studies and picking out the bias and confounding variables.

In reading any study or review from an article, you need to pick out all the confounding bias. you start with who is doing the study and who is paying for it. we don't know, but i would guess either the government, the pharms, or some anti-drug organization. nevertheless, let's look at this bogus article a little closer.

This article's existence is obviously to scare the hell out of the avg joe who uses no illicit drugs, for political reasons with the pharms and for further funding the war on drugs IMO. look at the subjects in this study. they picked 22 people who have used meth for over 10 years which is not too unusual. what is totally unusual is that these people have been using it at 4 grams every week for 10 years straight! that means these people are almost dead or walking zombies! that's equivalent to someone smoking 4 packs of cigs everyday for 10 years or someone drinking 1.5 liter of 80proof alcohol everyday for 10 years IMPO. you don't need any mri or tests to show that anyone abusing any drugs legal or not at those incredibly high amounts and long length of time to show major bodily damage. do any of you know anyone using 4 grams of meth every week for even a year let alone 10 years? how about a couple months? where did they find these people? were they found in the hospital, insane asylum, or street gutter? these people are at the extreme 1% end of even the most hardcore drug ABUSERS. they are not representative of recreational drug USERS. further, most likely these participants are involved in other legal or illegal drugs, are malnourished, and have been lacking sleep for a decade. how can you blame it on the meth only? total BS! and this runnerman knows exactly what he did when he edited out the most important sentence in the article to make it look like people who casually used meth for 10 years suffers major brain damage. if you really wanted to prove that, they should have done a study involving ADD kids on ritalin/adderall for 10 years and see the damage of daily amphetamine use w/o the other confounding variables of a suicidal hardcore drug abuser. of course the pharms would never allow that kind of study for monetary and political reasons.

i called out your bullshit runnerman. go back to bb.com with the rest of your hypocrites! you're an insult to bluelight being here. you offer nothing but false anti-drug propaganda to fit your agenda. bluelight is pro-drug and we believe in the legalization of recreational drugs. part of the mission of bluelight is to educate and advocate harm reduction when using drugs. We are not here to try to spread misinformation and to use scare tactics. this is what the government does which only hurts and kills people. Legalizing drugs would save our country billions, save lives from "dirty" drugs, increase tax revenues, stop drug related crimes, increase safe drug education and give adults back our freedom and liberties!

now runnerman, get the FVCK out of here! you are full of shit!


This Is Your Brain on Meth: A 'Forest Fire' of Damage

July 20/2004

By SANDRA BLAKESLEE
New York Times

People who do not want to wait for old age to shrink their brains and bring on memory loss now have a quicker alternative - abuse methamphetamine for a decade or so and watch the brain cells vanish into the night.

The first high-resolution M.R.I. study of methamphetamine addicts shows "a forest fire of brain damage," said Dr. Paul Thompson, an expert on brain mapping at the University of California, Los Angeles. "We expected some brain changes but didn't expect so much tissue to be destroyed."

The image, published in the June 30 issue of The Journal of Neuroscience, shows the brain's surface and deeper limbic system. Red areas show the greatest tissue loss.

The limbic region, involved in drug craving, reward, mood and emotion, lost 11 percent of its tissue. "The cells are dead and gone," Dr. Thompson said. Addicts were depressed, anxious and unable to concentrate.

The brain's center for making new memories, the hippocampus, lost 8 percent of its tissue, comparable to the brain deficits in early Alzheimer's. The methamphetamine addicts fared significantly worse on memory tests than healthy people the same age.

The study examined 22 people in their 30's who had used methamphetamine for 10 years, mostly by smoking it, and 21 controls matched for age. On average, the addicts used an average of four grams a week and said they had been high on 19 of the 30 days before the study began.

Methamphetamine is an addictive stimulant made in clandestine laboratories nationwide. When taken by mouth, snorted, injected or smoked, it produces intense pleasure by releasing the brain's reward chemical, dopamine. With chronic use, the brains that overstimulate dopamine and another brain chemical, serotonin, are permanently compromised.

The study held one other surprise, Dr. Thompson said: white matter, composed of nerve fibers that connect different areas, was severely inflamed, making the addicts' brains 10 percent larger than normal. "This was shocking," he said. But there was one piece of good news: the white matter was not dead. With abstinence, it might recover.

LinkOn average, the addicts used an average of four grams a week and said they had been high on 19 of the 30 days before the study began.
 

AznRaver

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herb311 said:
Meth will fry your CNS. Fryed CNS=SHit recovery and shit strength gains. Meth is shit, either get off it and get big or keep using and be a skinny meth head. Choice is yours

yeah, life is all about getting BIG! what a turd! get a life man!
 

herb311

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AznRaver said:
yeah, life is all about getting BIG! what a turd! get a life man!

Your right, im sorry. Life is about tweeking every weekend and doing lots of damage to your body. My bad.

And where did i say life is all about getting big? I simply stated meth is gonna fry your cns among other things and if your goal is to get stronger it aint gonna happen. Simple as that. Where was i like

"NOOOO!!!! LIFE IS ALL ABOUT BEING STRONG!!! ARGHHH!!! AzNRAVER HAS A SMALL PENIS SO HES GONNA BE MAD AT ME!! ARGHH:"


Its like if his question was "Hey guys, i really like to cut myself, but i dont like the scars, anyway i can cut myself and not fuck up my skin"

I would have to say "No, when you cut your skin your gonna scar dumby, either cut yourself or have unscarred skin, easy as that"
 
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