chitownbrown
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noob setup but was experimentin a little bit
[MEGA]Growing advice, tips, tricks and experience: Mark 3
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PsychicBuBBLe
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Mr. Artificial Emotion -
So, we just put sand on top of the grow medium. Hopefully those cocksucking gnats will suffocate.
We are starting to see some yellowing which is odd because we just fed them a couple of days ago. I guess it's time to increase the dosage... we were at 10ml/g and now we will bump it to 20ml/g. I posted pics below, this type of yellowing is caused by nutrient deficiency, correct?
The soil is still moist and the plants are heavy from their last watering (yesterday). Is it ok to wait until the soil dries out (but not too dry) to feed them?
Thanks.
So, we just put sand on top of the grow medium. Hopefully those cocksucking gnats will suffocate.
We are starting to see some yellowing which is odd because we just fed them a couple of days ago. I guess it's time to increase the dosage... we were at 10ml/g and now we will bump it to 20ml/g. I posted pics below, this type of yellowing is caused by nutrient deficiency, correct?
The soil is still moist and the plants are heavy from their last watering (yesterday). Is it ok to wait until the soil dries out (but not too dry) to feed them?
Thanks.
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Artificial Emotion
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Make sure there's no salt in it. Silver sand, sharp sand or any other type of sand except play sand etc. from a garden centre is okay.
The treatment you're using won't control them properly IMO. I would advise organic neem oil if you're in flower or close to flower. Or abamectin or another miticide if you're 10-12 weeks or more from harvest date. There are loads of products like Harkers Harkamectin available in the UK but I don't know about the US. Search google for miticides, that is chemicals designed to kill mites specifically. Be careful because if you use them too close to harvest they'll end up in your bloodstream one of the reasons dealer weed is so dangerous long term, because Vietnamese gang-related growers for example don't give a shit about wether the abamectin is used 12 weeks prior to harvest, making cancer of the lungs etc. far more likely than safely organic homegrown weed. This is why I think the growing cannabis as a form of harm reduction is more important than the fact that doing so might be illegal.
Mr. Artificial Emotion -
We are starting to see some yellowing which is odd because we just fed them a couple of days ago. I guess it's time to increase the dosage... we were at 10ml/g and now we will bump it to 20ml/g. I posted pics below, this type of yellowing is caused by nutrient deficiency, correct?
The soil is still moist and the plants are heavy from their last watering (yesterday). Is it ok to wait until the soil dries out (but not too dry) to feed them?
Thanks.
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It could just be natural yellowing that's not necessarily indicative of a nutrient deficiency. It's hard to tell from the photo tbh.
If you're in flower there's a chance of a hermaphrodite, if the plant is genetically susceptible or predisposed. If you're in veg it won't make any difference whatsoever.
I've been there and it happens to the best of us, that's all I can really say. If it's bothering you that much, in future maybe try not to put your eggs in one basket?
my topped plant starting to bud
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Unless you're a medical MJ patient and have the relevant permit, I would advise against using imageshack for security reasons.
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PsychicBuBBLe
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Changing sand. Will let you know of the results when they wake up!
PsychicBuBBLe
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AE - After taking the old sand out, we have to replace some of the soil. The new soil has nutrients in it... should we still feed the same amount? We were gonna double the dosage because some of the leaves are really yellow. I hope the gnats aren't fucking with the roots :/ I read that yellowing of the leaves could be caused by the gnats...
Prelude2TragedyII
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Ill go shopping for a new miticide tomorrow.
Hopefully I can find something that works well, and my plants in my closet are still vegging. Got another week or 2 before I flower them.
Only two plants are severly infected with mites, the other 4 seem okay.
Ive been continuing to spray just to make sure they don't spread to my healthy plants.
Pyshcicbubble, do your leaves have purple stems? When the gnats were getting really bad in my room, I saw that my plants leaves started to turn yellow at the tips, and the stems turned purple, I would guess that it's the gnats larvae destroying the roots , Idk if feeding more would be a good idea, but, Im sure AE would know, lol.
I watered my plants with some water and cedar oil, after I did that, I put sand on the tops of the pots, and haven't had much problem since, hopefully you can get rid of them, God it was so annoying having them, I remember sitting in my room and every few minutes I'd see a gnat fly infront of my screen, couldn't help but feel like they were on me, lol.
Oh yeah, AE, you quoted me twice, but didn't answer the second question, lol
Temps are rising to about 80-86 in the closet. I was wondering if I should start up my humidifier to help the plants , or would that just make things worse with the fungus gnats? and other bugs (spider mites)
Hopefully I can find something that works well, and my plants in my closet are still vegging. Got another week or 2 before I flower them.
Only two plants are severly infected with mites, the other 4 seem okay.
Ive been continuing to spray just to make sure they don't spread to my healthy plants.
Pyshcicbubble, do your leaves have purple stems? When the gnats were getting really bad in my room, I saw that my plants leaves started to turn yellow at the tips, and the stems turned purple, I would guess that it's the gnats larvae destroying the roots , Idk if feeding more would be a good idea, but, Im sure AE would know, lol.
I watered my plants with some water and cedar oil, after I did that, I put sand on the tops of the pots, and haven't had much problem since, hopefully you can get rid of them, God it was so annoying having them, I remember sitting in my room and every few minutes I'd see a gnat fly infront of my screen, couldn't help but feel like they were on me, lol.
Oh yeah, AE, you quoted me twice, but didn't answer the second question, lol
Temps are rising to about 80-86 in the closet. I was wondering if I should start up my humidifier to help the plants , or would that just make things worse with the fungus gnats? and other bugs (spider mites)
PsychicBuBBLe
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I don't think the stems are purple... some are brown. Not all the leaves are yellow... maybe 8 out of the lot.
PsychicBuBBLe
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*UPDATE*
The girls woke up and we couldn't wait any longer!
I know you said to scoop out "all of the old sand" but we couldn't. We got the top layer of soil and scooped out as much as humanly possible. Hope that's ok. We put a layer of new soil on top, fed them, and added the new sand. We didn't see many changes - They are all very healthy except for the yellow leaves that I've mentioned. I posted a pic below - Once again, only a few are yellow on 2 or 3 plants. The others are fine. Let me know what you think. Did we do everything right? Thanks.
The girls woke up and we couldn't wait any longer!
I know you said to scoop out "all of the old sand" but we couldn't. We got the top layer of soil and scooped out as much as humanly possible. Hope that's ok. We put a layer of new soil on top, fed them, and added the new sand. We didn't see many changes - They are all very healthy except for the yellow leaves that I've mentioned. I posted a pic below - Once again, only a few are yellow on 2 or 3 plants. The others are fine. Let me know what you think. Did we do everything right? Thanks.
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PsychicBuBBLe
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P.S. Will this sand stay on top or eventually sink to the bottom after multiple feedings and watering?
Artificial Emotion
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Psychbibble, don't worry about the small amounts of sand. Yes, they do need a feed. Just don't be overzealous and up the feed too much. Less is more.
I did answer it but the answer ended up in the quotation tags, so it looks like part of your question when it was not.
I would find out if you can get abamectin or something like ivermectin.
I did answer it but the answer ended up in the quotation tags, so it looks like part of your question when it was not.
I would find out if you can get abamectin or something like ivermectin.
Damien
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The X factor confusing you is the same one that confused me and I believe it's the footprint of the light. I mean, you can't take a 600W bulb and put it over 20 plants and expect 600 grams from each.
The light's placement over the optimized amount of vegetative growth is just another one of the factors that needs to be optimized.
Artificial Emotion
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^yes you're right but what I think we can take from it is that it's a lousy way of measuring whether you've grown your yield efficiently at the end of the day.
To illustrate what we're both saying I'll give an example:
Say you have a DR120 tent with a 1kW lamp at the right height. That's 15.5 square feet floor space. You could have 1 plant in there and fill the whole grow space or you could have 15 plants in there and also fill out the whole grow space. You could get the same yield from both, but what's the main difference between the two? The one plant take far far longer to veg to fill out the space than the 15 plants would do. So you've spent many times more electricity growing that one plant than the 15, but still have potentially the same yield in grams per watt.
That's why it's better to compare your end yield with the amount of money you've spent on each unit of electrical energy used in kWh and possibly on other things, like nutrients etc.
The optimal intensity of light on that floor space would be about 50 watts per square foot of grow space. So in a 15.5 square foot floor space (like in the DR120 tent), the optimal bulb wattage would be calculated like this:
Watts per square foot = Bulb wattage / floor space in square feet
Therefore: Bulb wattage = Watts per square foot * floor space in square feet
And for the DR120 tent:
Bulb wattage = 50 * 15.5 = 775W. It's better to therefore go with the 1000W bulb than the 600W because it's a lot better to be a bit above 50W/square foot than below (which is what it would be with a 600W bulb).
If they made a 775W bulb it would be ideal for the DR120, but things in life don't always fit into place perfectly well.
For anyone with an education in math or engineering etc. I would imagine this would seem trivial and easy to understand, but it's important to remember that others who haven't taken this path in life and are more creative and talented at other things are not necessarily stupid, it's just they don't have the same grasp of numbers. My mother is useless at maths but would piss all over me in a job interview any day. She could make a painting in a day that I wouldn't be able to do in a year with my best effort.
I hope you don't mind this post Damien, I'm not trying to take the limelight. I just think it's really useful for growers to have a good understanding of these principles.
To illustrate what we're both saying I'll give an example:
Say you have a DR120 tent with a 1kW lamp at the right height. That's 15.5 square feet floor space. You could have 1 plant in there and fill the whole grow space or you could have 15 plants in there and also fill out the whole grow space. You could get the same yield from both, but what's the main difference between the two? The one plant take far far longer to veg to fill out the space than the 15 plants would do. So you've spent many times more electricity growing that one plant than the 15, but still have potentially the same yield in grams per watt.
That's why it's better to compare your end yield with the amount of money you've spent on each unit of electrical energy used in kWh and possibly on other things, like nutrients etc.
The optimal intensity of light on that floor space would be about 50 watts per square foot of grow space. So in a 15.5 square foot floor space (like in the DR120 tent), the optimal bulb wattage would be calculated like this:
Watts per square foot = Bulb wattage / floor space in square feet
Therefore: Bulb wattage = Watts per square foot * floor space in square feet
And for the DR120 tent:
Bulb wattage = 50 * 15.5 = 775W. It's better to therefore go with the 1000W bulb than the 600W because it's a lot better to be a bit above 50W/square foot than below (which is what it would be with a 600W bulb).
If they made a 775W bulb it would be ideal for the DR120, but things in life don't always fit into place perfectly well.
For anyone with an education in math or engineering etc. I would imagine this would seem trivial and easy to understand, but it's important to remember that others who haven't taken this path in life and are more creative and talented at other things are not necessarily stupid, it's just they don't have the same grasp of numbers. My mother is useless at maths but would piss all over me in a job interview any day. She could make a painting in a day that I wouldn't be able to do in a year with my best effort.
I hope you don't mind this post Damien, I'm not trying to take the limelight. I just think it's really useful for growers to have a good understanding of these principles.
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Damien
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^ Oh no, not at all! I was just commenting on the X factor that confused me as well when I initially heard the g/w formula. When I heard it, it just didn't make sense and it took actually looking at a grow to see what that the light's limited foot print was the missing X factor for the g/w formula.
I agree that $/product is a much better measuring stick. I think people will start to really worry about efficiency when cannabis becomes legal. Until then there is still plenty of wiggle room for those looking to profit or save money from buying on the streets.
I agree that $/product is a much better measuring stick.
I think people will start to really worry about efficiency when cannabis becomes legal. Until then there is still plenty of wiggle room for those looking to profit or save money from buying on the streets.
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PsychicBuBBLe
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AE - So, if the yellowing is caused by hunger... how long will it take for the yellowing to dissipate after a feed? We fed them last night. I'm wondering how long I should wait before I start assuming other causes for the yellowing.
Artificial Emotion
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A few days up to a whole week. Keep increasing the feed by small amounts incrementally until you hit the 'sweet spot'.
Oh believe me, even now a lot of home growers get obsessed about why they haven't achieved a gram per watt when in fact, as shown above, the gram per watt figure is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Any weed will save you a fortune if you've grown it yourself, as you say, so it doesn't matter. I do agree with you that when profit margins become narrow with legalisation people will start to worry about efficiency, but when that time comes they won't be growing indoors in the first place.
As I've said, I pay nothing for my electricity because I grow outdoors, so if it were legal and I were selling and competing with indoor growers, I would have a 100% profit margin pretty much. Growing indoors costs a lot and would not be feasible to grow in this way if it were a crop like coffee or grapes IMO.
edit: I class growing in a greenhouse as being outdoors because you are growing under the natural sunlight and not artificial light.
I agree that $/product is a much better measuring stick.
Oh believe me, even now a lot of home growers get obsessed about why they haven't achieved a gram per watt when in fact, as shown above, the gram per watt figure is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Any weed will save you a fortune if you've grown it yourself, as you say, so it doesn't matter. I do agree with you that when profit margins become narrow with legalisation people will start to worry about efficiency, but when that time comes they won't be growing indoors in the first place.
As I've said, I pay nothing for my electricity because I grow outdoors, so if it were legal and I were selling and competing with indoor growers, I would have a 100% profit margin pretty much. Growing indoors costs a lot and would not be feasible to grow in this way if it were a crop like coffee or grapes IMO.
edit: I class growing in a greenhouse as being outdoors because you are growing under the natural sunlight and not artificial light.
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PsychicBuBBLe
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I also noticed that some of the stems were purple... fuckin gnats. Hope the sand fixes their ass.
Artificial Emotion
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^ what are the night temps falling to during night time?
Purple temps are often caused by low night temps. If you get a digital thermometer/hygrostat you should make use of the high/low function. If you reset it and come back the next day, it'll tell you what the highest temperature it has read is and also the lowest temperature. This info can be very useful. If you just check the temp each time you enter the room this is not as useful as monitoring temperature peaks and troughs (i.e. the highest and lowest temperatures throughout the day).
Purple temps are often caused by low night temps. If you get a digital thermometer/hygrostat you should make use of the high/low function. If you reset it and come back the next day, it'll tell you what the highest temperature it has read is and also the lowest temperature. This info can be very useful. If you just check the temp each time you enter the room this is not as useful as monitoring temperature peaks and troughs (i.e. the highest and lowest temperatures throughout the day).
Transcendence
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I absolutely agree with the $/product measuring stick. It's what convinced to try a CFL grow at first. I've spent a grand total of about $100 on my 7 plant indoor grow, including seeds, pots, soil, fertilizer, and lights. At this rate I'll be ahead if I get more than one gram per plant, never mind watt.
That said I'm constantly fantasizing about the kind of setup I'll build when cannabis is legal.
That said I'm constantly fantasizing about the kind of setup I'll build when cannabis is legal.
Artificial Emotion
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^ I can see the value in cheap CFLs from the hardware store to produce just enough weed to tide you over (some weed is better than no weed), but IMO over the long term you'll get a lot more weed per kWh with HPS lamps than with CFLs. I think the CFL option is good in the very short term if you can't come up with the funds to buy a cheap euroshade, a magnetic ballast and an HPS bulb though.
You can get combo deals with a cheap shade, ballast and bulb that would cost far far less than you would think (about the same cost as a low end point and shoot digital camera) that I think would be a better investment. CFLs are okay for vegging but it's hard to get good quality weed in flower with them if I'm honest.
I would also like to add that if you want to measure your kWh power consumption, by far the best way (as I said earlier) is not to add the wattage of your lights, lamps etc. but to buy a cheapo energy monitor. Plug your whole grow, including fans etc. if your house electrics can support it into the energy monitor and it'll measure the energy consumption in kWh. Add the kWh consumption up on a chart in your grow room daily and at the end of the grow, call up the energy company to see how much you pay per kWh and you'll know how much it'll cost. A 600W ballast for example does not use 600W, but a small but significant amount more than that, so adding up wattage ratings can be pointless.
But yeah, HPS lamps are cheaper than CFLs, LEDs, MH lamps or any other lamp widely available to consumers per unit of energy consumption because they are simply the most efficient and give a good spectrum for both vegetative and especially flowering growth.
There are a few myths regarding HPS lamps. The main ones being:
-They are only good for flowering.
-They run hotter per W than CFLs.
-They are more expensive to run per W than CFLs.
-They cause a lot of stretching in veg (leggy plants are caused mainly by too low a light intensity).
They are designed for greenhouse growing and so nothing on earth will beat a greenhouse with natural light being supplemented by a small amount of HPS light. Harvest a plant in summer when UV levels are high anyway and you're supplementing with an HPS lamp and you get weed that is more psychoactive and potent, as well as a high yielder than any indoor grown weed or weed harvested later in fall/autumn. This is why force flowering can be so effective.
I was going to talk about flowering in summer without having to force flower i.e. use expose the plant to only 12/12 light artificially. I might do so later if anyone's interested. It's at the cutting edge and the technology (albeit simple) is only just starting to be used in industry now. It really is fascinating stuff!
You can get combo deals with a cheap shade, ballast and bulb that would cost far far less than you would think (about the same cost as a low end point and shoot digital camera) that I think would be a better investment. CFLs are okay for vegging but it's hard to get good quality weed in flower with them if I'm honest.
I would also like to add that if you want to measure your kWh power consumption, by far the best way (as I said earlier) is not to add the wattage of your lights, lamps etc. but to buy a cheapo energy monitor. Plug your whole grow, including fans etc. if your house electrics can support it into the energy monitor and it'll measure the energy consumption in kWh. Add the kWh consumption up on a chart in your grow room daily and at the end of the grow, call up the energy company to see how much you pay per kWh and you'll know how much it'll cost. A 600W ballast for example does not use 600W, but a small but significant amount more than that, so adding up wattage ratings can be pointless.
But yeah, HPS lamps are cheaper than CFLs, LEDs, MH lamps or any other lamp widely available to consumers per unit of energy consumption because they are simply the most efficient and give a good spectrum for both vegetative and especially flowering growth.
There are a few myths regarding HPS lamps. The main ones being:
-They are only good for flowering.
-They run hotter per W than CFLs.
-They are more expensive to run per W than CFLs.
-They cause a lot of stretching in veg (leggy plants are caused mainly by too low a light intensity).
They are designed for greenhouse growing and so nothing on earth will beat a greenhouse with natural light being supplemented by a small amount of HPS light. Harvest a plant in summer when UV levels are high anyway and you're supplementing with an HPS lamp and you get weed that is more psychoactive and potent, as well as a high yielder than any indoor grown weed or weed harvested later in fall/autumn. This is why force flowering can be so effective.
I was going to talk about flowering in summer without having to force flower i.e. use expose the plant to only 12/12 light artificially. I might do so later if anyone's interested. It's at the cutting edge and the technology (albeit simple) is only just starting to be used in industry now. It really is fascinating stuff!
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