Did see any improvement in your muscle twitches over all this time? Or it is the same?
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MDMA Recovery (Stories & Support - 7) [ALL LTC posts go here]
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Yes i was 100% after a month , then relapsed cuz i drank heavily every day and took some corticoid bam i was back to square one
I took prozac 20 mg, amisulpride 50 mg and xanax 0,5mg. The drugs are not working on me anymore cuz i tried it again and i felt worse with the prozac for 3 month then i came off of it. Now im taking zyprexa i was stable for 1 year the my psych tried to wean me off of it it was hell i was put back on it and it not working on me . I still deal with muscle twitches , bad sleep, headache,pressure in the liver , weakness in my left arm and legs
I hope it gets better
Bluelighter
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Here I am in hospital 6 doctors later and my phyc just told I'm fine MDMA can't do that too you because you only took the drug a couple of times " . This was my last attempt and anything medical I guess I have to accept that this is how life is now.
Cotcha Yankinov
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HI there, a short answer for those who won't be reading too far - the brain is extremely neuroplastic, constantly wiring and re-wiring, and can develop and recover from these symptoms without any drugs ever being involved. I had a lot of visual disturbances similar to HPPD since I was a kid. I think many people here have primarily HPPD, and should probably cast aside that it came from a certain drug at all. The important thing is to influence our brain's neuroplasticity in a desirable fashion, and there are a ton of different things that can do that. The most effective way in my opinion is mindfulness practice.
We know that these syndromes can happen in people with no history of drug use, and we also know that they happen from taking drugs with extremely different mechanisms of action from MDMA/substituted amphetamines, drugs like psychedelics, dissosociatives, other monoamine releasers like cocaine, and even Benadryl. So I certainly wouldn't chalk it up to "serotonin neurotoxicity" - I think that belief leads to a lot of anxiety that perpetuates the symptoms.
That isn't to say that what is going on isn't biological in nature, but anxiety is biological in nature. The brain is extremely neuroplastic, constantly wiring and re-wiring. Trimming old connections and growing new ones. The trick to recovery is to influence this process in a way that results in a happy, healthy brain. All brains are neuroplastic. Hell, there is a paper showing an increase in brain volume and reduction in insomnia in elderly patients after just 8 weeks of mindfulness meditation practice. Don't even get me started on the reactive re-sprouting of serotonin neurons after they've been experimentally damaged in animals whose brains are much less neuroplastic than humans.
There are kids who have had half of their brains removed when they are young because there is epilepsy selectively on that side. Some of these people, you wouldn't even know that they were missing almost half their brain. That's the power of neuroplasticity. But the tendency towards negative thoughts, anxiety and insomnia, that is slowing down the neuroplastic processes from fixing the brain.
As far as a theory for these syndromes.. Some people might have a temporary serotonin signaling shortage after serotonin receptors are temporarily desensitized (a natural process when serotonin signaling increases), and some neuroplastic changes might occur during that shortage, and that shortage would at most last only a month or two. Some people may be more resistant to developing that serotonin shortage in the first place, or they may not be affected by that serotonin shortage as much. Sleep is really important for serotonin recovery, and genes can effect how well a person sleeps when someone does have this temporary serotonin shortage.
See dietary tryptophan depletion exacerbating depression symptoms selectively in people with two short forms of a serotonin related gene called 5-HTTLPR. It is known that people with one or two short forms at the 5-HTTLPR are more vulnerable to the negative effects of serotonin depletion via depletion of the dietary precursor (protein) tryptophan, the adverse effects of MDMA use, and the adverse effects of cocaine use (cocaine once again, not neurotoxic).
If anyone here has insomnia - I suggest focusing on treating that in particular. It took me several months of mindfulness practice to gain any proficiency, then once I started sleeping better and applying mindfulness meditation throughout the day, it was an upward spiral. Years later and I still have so much to learn. There are many similar stories of miracle recovery with mindfulness. I know it seems that things like this could not possible be helped with a "psychological" technique, and back when I could barely understand basic sentences and had physical symptoms, and horrible visual symptoms I probably would've told you to go screw yourselves if you told me it wasn't "permanent brain damage", but mindfulness has potent biological effects. Even Cognitive Behavioral Therapy can cause all sorts of changes in brain volume of different brain regions.
Mindfulness, mindfulness, mindfulness. I suggest you all throw yourselves into it wholeheartedly, and understand that it's similar to exercise. I think I made the mistake of expecting to be buff after 3 months of working out, if you will. You can see reports of things like chronic treatment resistant cases of HPPD that miraculously resolve with a certain med (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3736944/ - spontaneous recovery of 13 year treatment resistant HPPD in an architect upon treatment with Lamotrigine), but I don't think those silver bullets are the ones worth chasing. I'd much rather see you guys work out and exercise than use steroids, if you will. Even if exercise is harder and takes longer, you will come back stronger.
Some people recover so well with mindfulness that they are happier than they ever were, and return to using all sorts of drugs, including MDMA regularly. Not that I recommend that
Cotcha Yankinov
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I would tell that doctor that people get HPPD from one-off doses of psychedelics, and that this is well established in the literature. I'd be happy to communicate with them via email if they are up to it. Let me know if you would like to do that and we can figure that out.
I think the doctors have more respect for HPPD because it is an actual DSM diagnosis (thanks to Dr. Henry Abraham, which one of our forum members actually traveled to see in the past), and I do believe that HPPD is probably the best diagnosis for many people on here. Many other symptoms are probably developing secondary to that, or are not able to recover as quickly because of the HPPD related (usually severe) distress.
Dr. Abraham prescribed that patient of his a benzodiazepine, which can help but there are problems with addiction and dependence. And, rebound anxiety. Mindfulness can have the same beneficial effects on anxiety but without tolerance, dependence and withdrawals.
Edit: Here is the ICD (international) diagnosis code for HPPD
thejibberman
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Hi guys, I made a post about 3/4 weeks ago saying that I've experienced everything you have 6 years ago and that I have been thinking about taking MDMA again, just to know where I stand... and I did it.
So essentially what happened 6 years ago is that I took some untested MDMA and flew off the handle whilst on it due to a really stressful night in general and had somehwat a panic attack. It was awful, for months and month and months I felt like much lesser than a human being, and due to the stress in my life at the time, this definitely exacerbated everything. I'd say it took me 2 years to learn how to control myself again to a normal level. But, during this time I was definitely obsessing over all these things I felt I did wrong, liviing with regret and guilt, and honestly this is why it took so long. I came to the realisation back in 2016/7/8 that it was purely anxiety. Every single symptom everyone ties with the 'LTC' (which by the way is no way an actual term), is possibly caused by chronic stress/anxiety attacks.
This is where I talk about my trip only 2 and a half weeks ago. I had a really great trip, for the next day I felt an afterglow, and the day after that I felt a bit dumb. Then the next evening, out of nowhere I had a panic attack whilst I was watching some lighthearted video on YouTube. It was so sudden and came on in my chest whilst I thought I was really chill. I was panicking so much that I've caused myself a sentence of another 6 years. Terrified, beyond terrified. I was feeling stuff I hadn't felt in half a decade, it was awful. For the next few days I found myself in desperation looking up symptoms (even though I had done all this back in 2014) to get reassurance and this is so pivotal to recovery. Stop looking for it. Anyway, I thought 'Hmm, maybe my serotonin hasn't rejuvenated yet and that's why I'm so sensitive right now'. How right I was. I was soooooo anxious for about a week after which caused me to have muscle spasms, the dull ache in the head, vision problems, you name it. I tried to keep chill as possible, my fear wasn't that I was going to die this time, or the fact that I'll have it forever, because I knew I wouldn't. See friends, attempt to live normally, and my brain very slowly (yet quickly) calmed down. It's been almost 3 weeks since I did it, and honestly, I feel absolutely fine again.
The main takeaway from this is that your brain is highly sensitive when triggering panic, you need to relax. Everyone on this thread, as much comfort you get from hearing other people dealing with it, talking about chemistry of the brain, and syndromes and accumulating data is borderline obsessive. Let your brain/mind just relax. You can eliminate it much faster than you think, but if you let it get into your routine thinking, it's going to take a looong time to recover, like I did before.
So essentially what happened 6 years ago is that I took some untested MDMA and flew off the handle whilst on it due to a really stressful night in general and had somehwat a panic attack. It was awful, for months and month and months I felt like much lesser than a human being, and due to the stress in my life at the time, this definitely exacerbated everything. I'd say it took me 2 years to learn how to control myself again to a normal level. But, during this time I was definitely obsessing over all these things I felt I did wrong, liviing with regret and guilt, and honestly this is why it took so long. I came to the realisation back in 2016/7/8 that it was purely anxiety. Every single symptom everyone ties with the 'LTC' (which by the way is no way an actual term), is possibly caused by chronic stress/anxiety attacks.
This is where I talk about my trip only 2 and a half weeks ago. I had a really great trip, for the next day I felt an afterglow, and the day after that I felt a bit dumb. Then the next evening, out of nowhere I had a panic attack whilst I was watching some lighthearted video on YouTube. It was so sudden and came on in my chest whilst I thought I was really chill. I was panicking so much that I've caused myself a sentence of another 6 years. Terrified, beyond terrified. I was feeling stuff I hadn't felt in half a decade, it was awful. For the next few days I found myself in desperation looking up symptoms (even though I had done all this back in 2014) to get reassurance and this is so pivotal to recovery. Stop looking for it. Anyway, I thought 'Hmm, maybe my serotonin hasn't rejuvenated yet and that's why I'm so sensitive right now'. How right I was. I was soooooo anxious for about a week after which caused me to have muscle spasms, the dull ache in the head, vision problems, you name it. I tried to keep chill as possible, my fear wasn't that I was going to die this time, or the fact that I'll have it forever, because I knew I wouldn't. See friends, attempt to live normally, and my brain very slowly (yet quickly) calmed down. It's been almost 3 weeks since I did it, and honestly, I feel absolutely fine again.
The main takeaway from this is that your brain is highly sensitive when triggering panic, you need to relax. Everyone on this thread, as much comfort you get from hearing other people dealing with it, talking about chemistry of the brain, and syndromes and accumulating data is borderline obsessive. Let your brain/mind just relax. You can eliminate it much faster than you think, but if you let it get into your routine thinking, it's going to take a looong time to recover, like I did before.
Cotcha Yankinov
Bluelight Crew
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There's a pretty tight correlation between people having panic attacks on their trips (both from ecstasy and psychedelics) and then having these sorts of problems. I think you're spot on the money. The anxiety continues and becomes a self-reinforcing cycle, anxiety causes symptoms, symptoms cause anxiety. People have a real hard time getting away from the googling, but that is probably the most important start. You're always going to come across something that lights the fire ablaze again and sets off the anxiety, so once y'all glean enough information that you know what to do, I suggest trying to leave the searching behind.
A mindfulness app on the other hand, not so much risk of causing anxiety there. Not that I don't recommend learning it under a trained professional/therapist too, but its easier to convince people to download an app than go see a therapist these days (its cheaper too, unfortunately, but a good therapist is worth their weight in gold)
They improved tremendously... On some days they are more intense.... But honestly those twitches have by far the least negative impact on my daily life...
What are the other symptômes you still deal with they have improved?
ZeroLuck
Bluelighter
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- Feb 18, 2017
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It's a little weird, because I had an amazing trip, next day was a little ugh... and after that... holycrap....
Fatigue, head pressure, cognitive impairment, high sensebility to any stimulant, mood swings, sexual infunctionality, and sleep probs.... Its waaaaaay better than it was 18 monts ago... But still pretty tough... Its hard sometimes to maintain a positive mindest....
its the same for me too . ecxept the head pressure i have a pressure around my liver . Muscle twitching, imbalance when im walking i feel the ground is not solid so im afraid to fall, probleme with sleeping im addict to zyprexa wich is a very good anxiolitic but its veryy addictive im weaning off of it because i start to have a paradoxical effect, rebounding insomnia brain trembling weird stuff.
Your muscle twitching are in all your body or just in a specific part?
How did your fatigue feels like ? How much mdma you took? Sorry for the many question mate just for help its long time im in this state and its hard to maintain a positive mindset like you said
Still taking the meds. Will eventually stop taking them and weed off of them slowly.
lionheart90
Bluelighter
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- Mar 24, 2018
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- 249
This is my last time in here. Peace out y'all
hope you recover someday too. My shit began november 2017, so close to 3 years ago.
goodbye
hope you recover someday too. My shit began november 2017, so close to 3 years ago.
goodbye
Hi everybody
Does anybody suffer from akathisia its a bad feeling . When im in standing position i cant stay relaxed and talk to somebody i feel nervoussness in my chest and my legs are stiff i need to move . The only position when im fine is in bed
Does anybody suffer from akathisia its a bad feeling . When im in standing position i cant stay relaxed and talk to somebody i feel nervoussness in my chest and my legs are stiff i need to move . The only position when im fine is in bed
Cotcha Yankinov
Bluelight Crew
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Out of curiosity, could you tell us what dose Zyprexa/Olanzapine that you're on?
I've been up to higher doses with atypical anti-psychotics like Zyprexa and gotten movement related side effects, and then withdrawing off of most types of drugs (including atypical anti-psychotics) I get restless legs syndrome. You have my sympathies.
The movement related side effects of anti-psychotics are stronger at higher doses, and some are known to be worse than others (Seroquel/Quetiapine for example is known to be worse). At low enough doses, some anti-psychotics will function more like an anti-histamine and adrenaline blocker and have minimal effects on dopamine receptors directly, but there will still be a withdrawal period if you've been on them for more than a month or two.
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Hi cotcha thanks for your sympathie
I was on 5 mg of zyprexa and im weaning off of it im at 2,5 mg im taking benzo for help its been 12 days with benzo