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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

MDMA Powder

johnboy said:
this is a relevant quote from this thread in the pill testing forum:
easy e: from what I know from the scene here in Holland: people with presses do not necessarily own the powder, they often act as a contractor.. It is a whole different league to have a pill press factory that to have a powder production site. Also in the case of a bust of either one it would minimise loss of equipment.
easy e is one of the guys from EZ Test, so chances are he might have some local knowledge of such things ;)

that's my understanding too.

further, from what i understand of dutch laws, its better to be busted with a press and powder, rather than a press, powder and lab equipment.

it could be a 10 year difference!
 
*sigh* this thread brought back lovely memories of the crystal MDMA we used to eat. Ah those delightful shards of pure grey love *sigh*
 
I fail to see how powder is less likely to be tampered with than pills. Much powder is crap as are many pills, but with powder the potential for adulteration stands with every hand who handles it. Not so with pills. To tamper with pills you either have to shave or tumble them, or repress them. But altering the shape of pills can reveal this form of cheating, simply by comparing or weighing, and repressing can't be done by everyone.

As for purity?

Some time ago I was approached by a stranger and was offered a small amount of MDMA crystal/powder to test, said to be locally produced. It reacted violently forming a dirty brown/purple color with Marquis, a similar color with mandelin, a positive to Simons (blue) and negative to robadope. Using the permanganate test for alkenes, it was determined there was unreacted safrole/isosafrole present. I didn't do a ketone test but I betcha there was ketone present (more toxic to the liver than safrole). It was verbally confirmed that no distillations of either ketone or freebase were carried out.

The way I see it, any consistent pressor of pills is likely also to have a choice as to what goes in them. With the usual selection around (powder being much easier to import it is said), the above product would likely have been rejected by big pressors unless it was either very cheap or there was a drought.

How many caps of powder do you see with ~80-120mg of white, non-smelling powder in them? They're nearly always topped up with milk powder or something similar. Incidentally, even the washed product mentioned above - which I didn't see, but was described as being pure white in colour with no odour, and the roll was super clean etc - would still not be considered pure enough for human consumption IMHO. While such washing may remove much of the colour, lots of things remain which are still impurities.

One has to ask therefore, how much backyard powder/crystal is being produced without the lengthy distillations involving vacuum and other fiddly setups? Probably a good portion of it I would think. When considering this, I think it makes a well known brand of tablet a much safer bet, as production would have likely involved large batches produced using commercial pharmaceutical plants with dryers, large mixers etc, and for which distillation is automated and merely another step in production.
 
Phase Dancer said
The other thing not to forget with powder is the ease of adulteration. 120mg, as mentioned is a small amount in a 00 cap; just bigger than a match head. Caps filled to the brim with white powder are unlikely to be pure MDMA.

Now only a coulple of months ago I was buying MDMA caps now they were very srong but they were filled half way. Makes me wonder now how cut it was, looks do play a big part in placebo. I wonder if they only had a tiny bit in them whether I would of bought them in the first place.
 
Evening all, I agree with BT and in his words "it's the most beautiful ecstacy experience. Clear headed, floaty, airy, loved up and luscious". I do however find I need a reasonable amount, about 150mg which doesn't seem to make sense when you compare the volume against a pill. My all time favorite pill was the "green ?" which were found, when the lab in Indonesia was busted to have 140mg of MDMA. Now the thing that doesn't make sense is the "green ?" weren't overly big but when I weigh out 150mg of powder it seems a shitload on a plate. This is most probably because when you press a pill you press most of the air gaps out therefore the powder fits in a smaller space but then you have phase dancers comment as follows "120mg, as mentioned is a small amount in a 00 cap; just bigger than a match head" confusing.

I have rambled a bit so back to the powder and stoos question, sorry cant speak for Sydney I'm in Melbourne. It is available here and as Pleonastic says its around if you know the right people. I have seen it as a crystal rather than a powder and I would hope that would make it less likely to be cut but a chemist I am not. Looks like brown sugar however once I did see it with a slight purple tinge in the crystal, and it goes black fast fizzing and smoking along the way.
 
I still think the 140mg MDMA figure was an estimate used to figure out how many pills they could make from 90kg batches of MDMA...

Also, I think that some people don't dig MDMA powder because when you take 100mg it's such a head-ringingly clear as a bell floating MDMA dose that it makes the 70-80mg pill experience seem like it's quite pedestrian in comparison. The clarity of the feeling can almost leave you feeling straight but, if you stop to check your senses, the peak is cranking along in the background.

BigTrancer :)
 
90kg thats 90 million milligrams, lets be generous and say 90 milligrams per pill thats 1 million pills at say, what do you think, wholesale at $15.

Damn, I knew I picked the wrong career
 
phase_dancer said:
I fail to see how powder is less likely to be tampered with than pills. Much powder is crap as are many pills, but with powder the potential for adulteration stands with every hand who handles it. Not so with pills. To tamper with pills you either have to shave or tumble them, or repress them. But altering the shape of pills can reveal this form of cheating, simply by comparing or weighing, and repressing can't be done by everyone.

As for purity?

Some time ago I was approached by a stranger and was offered a small amount of MDMA crystal/powder to test, said to be locally produced. It reacted violently forming a dirty brown/purple color with Marquis, a similar color with mandelin, a positive to Simons (blue) and negative to robadope. Using the permanganate test for alkenes, it was determined there was unreacted safrole/isosafrole present. I didn't do a ketone test but I betcha there was ketone present (more toxic to the liver than safrole). It was verbally confirmed that no distillations of either ketone or freebase were carried out.

The way I see it, any consistent pressor of pills is likely also to have a choice as to what goes in them. With the usual selection around (powder being much easier to import it is said), the above product would likely have been rejected by big pressors unless it was either very cheap or there was a drought.

How many caps of powder do you see with ~80-120mg of white, non-smelling powder in them? They're nearly always topped up with milk powder or something similar. Incidentally, even the washed product mentioned above - which I didn't see, but was described as being pure white in colour with no odour, and the roll was super clean etc - would still not be considered pure enough for human consumption IMHO. While such washing may remove much of the colour, lots of things remain which are still impurities.

One has to ask therefore, how much backyard powder/crystal is being produced without the lengthy distillations involving vacuum and other fiddly setups? Probably a good portion of it I would think. When considering this, I think it makes a well known brand of tablet a much safer bet, as production would have likely involved large batches produced using commercial pharmaceutical plants with dryers, large mixers etc, and for which distillation is automated and merely another step in production.
All the powder I have ever got (and from multiple sources over a long time) has kicked ass over pills, in both value for money and quality of experience.
And I stated my reasons for thinking it would be generally at least of consistent quality in may last post.
Almost everyone who has replied in this thread about their experiences with powder has said it's been great and strong.
 
And I stated my reasons for thinking it would be generally at least of consistent quality in may last post

And I've stated mine. Sorry Steve Electro, I disagree with that statement, absolutely.

Sure there's lots of good MDMA crystal around and I've had my share, but you won't convince me for one moment that pills are likely to be of a similar consistency for a given number of middlemen. Put it this way, although I never would, I could quite convincingly adulterate MDMA crystal, to fool all but the taste test (and lab analysis of course). The first time I was shown this was in Byron Bay some years ago, by a rather unscrupulous dealer who could grow crystals of MDMA with the impurity (adulterant) Many times I've seen powder come to town; a light brown crystal appearance on the first week, but by the 3rd or 4th, what I have been shown is either completely different or more likely the same powder cut with something of a different colour.

I guess it all comes back to where your intersect point lies with distribution. Know the cook or the captain and you of course may be privy to the best. But the way I see it, powder provides the greatest opportunity for the desperate or greedy - always has done.

Let's look at it from another angle. Hypothetically speaking, you are out without a tester. You are offered either a 1/4 gram of MDMA powder or 2 red 3's by someone you know but not that well. You can be relatively sure whatever you choose won't kill you and you know there's some killer powder around. What's your best choice when weighing up the risk of getting a shitty 3 copy, or some crap lookalike powder?

Pills? Powder? or Potion? A while ago I bought a dose of MDMA as a liquid contained in a cut-off straw with ends sealed by a unique patterned heat crimp. The solution was almost clear in colour, tested well and did the trick re the roll. Considering the method of packaging and the hard to tamper/copy seal, could this form (despite the physical size inconvenience) possibly be one of the best ways to ensure quality control?
 
That form's primary flaw to me, seems to be its fragility. It would certainly not be geared towards export. The ease of administration associated with pills, and the relatively benign stigma attached to tablets (as opposed to IV, IM, IN, etc), still make them number one at all ends of the spectrum. To me, apart from the totally unique high, the pill format has gone along way in bringing ecstacy into "mainstream" consumption bracket.
i would have also thought that fabricating or modifying an existing heat sealer to "brand" the seal would be easier than making a press.
At the outset it would be a cool form for low scale distribution but its inherent flaws limit the scope of its application.
 
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i would have also thought that fabricating or modifying an existing heat sealer to "brand" the seal would be easier than making a press.

Yeah, you are right Timmmmmy. I guess nothing is really safe from tampering if that's the intent.
 
BigTrancer said:
Yep, it exists, and it's worth every cent if you can get pure MDMA. You can assure yourself that it's MDMA using the appropriate testers, and then measure your dose accordingly. In my personal opinion, it's the most beautiful ecstacy experience. Clear headed, floaty, airy, loved up and luscious.
BigTrancer :)

hmm I'll have a handfull of that thanks =D
 
killarava2day said:
*sigh* this thread brought back lovely memories of the crystal MDMA we used to eat. Ah those delightful shards of pure grey love *sigh*

Hmm you can crystallise MDMA???
Would that be the same as crystallising meth?
How would you do that...
I dont think that perth has mdma powder around here, well the papers say that it all comes from over east (but then again what the fuck do the papers know)

Would be interested in knowing how to crystallise mdma for educational purposes
 
If you were really keen you could extract and freebase the MDMA from a tablet and recrystallise with HCl gas, but that's probably getting closer to the production side of things as apposed to an explainable harm reduction practice 8)
 
^^^ The solvent is water.

Disclaimer: the author of this post has never attempted the following procedure nor encourages anyone to do so. This post is purelly theoretical and provided for information purposes only. Performing the following procedure could well constitute manufacturing MDMA.

Weigh pills. Crush pills, stir in hot water for 10 minutes. Filter out water insoluable crap and keep it. Evaporate water. Weigh powder. If the weight is in the range of expected approximate MDMA content (probably a fair bit more taking into account other water soluable constituents), then treat this as fairly pure MDMA powder.

This is 100% better to snort than crushed pills.

Eat the filtered stuff in portions untill effect is felt in case it still contains MDMA.
 
In terms of providing a simple, reasonably efficient and low risk (of being caught & labled a producer) way of extracting amines out of pills, Runner's method is probably the best. Depending upon the quality of the pill, one could even roughly estimate the quantitative level of MDMA by weighing the extract.

The major limitation as said, is that other things may be present which are also water soluble. Only use a minimum amout of water. As MDMA is very water soluble, it may also be better to use cold water for the extraction, leaving behind some of the less soluble components.

While binder materials and other excipients shouldn't be water soluble, there is no accounting for backyard formulations which may contain "sticky stuff" made from things which are water soluble. Therefore the technique should be seen to have some limitations, but it should give some sort of crystalline product which would no doubt be better for the nose than mixed with stuff which dosen't dissolve.
 
^^^ right on about cold water but with a modification.

* Use hot water as stated at first. THEN chill solution in fridge. Then filter. This will remove certain waxes that are insolable in cold water. Methanol, ethanol (methylated spirits pretty much) or isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) would be good solvents with a preference for isopropanol as it dissolved the least gaak.
 
*bumpage*

Almost a year since we have had some discussion on all of the associated benefits, pitfalls of powder.

Does it still exist?
Is it still the best possible MDMA experience?

Speaking from my lack of experience with this substance it is something that i would really like to add to my repetoire before i hang up my boots as far as drug use goes (if ever). It has always seemed to be a bit of a mythical creature around these parts, have had some mates who have had once-off small amounts that they have had to share in quantities so small that it generally got a bad rap.
 
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