Many Washington marijuana activists oppose legalization initiative

Cambo;10853569 said:
Nearly every day I see somebody say 'legalise regulate and tax', now when the oppertunity for, lets face it, a huge step forward comes along, nobody wants that? Nothing will ever be legalised if thats the attitude.

Seriously. It pisses me off. I'm from Washington myself and this really gets to me. I guess when it comes down to it people are basically selfish. Here we have a golden opportunity to take a step in the right direction and it is being derailed by selfish growers who can't see the big picture. :X
 
THC2LSD;10853283 said:
Do you honestly think that the drug cartels and other gangsters aren't involved at all in Washington's cannabis black market? Mexican drug cartels make and sell dank too.

For the most part, yeah. I'd guess the majority of anything imported would come from Canada anyways...

This is the shit I can't currently buy, illegally.

NSFW:


Tell me the Cartels are growing that lol. Even the mushrooms get homegrown around here.




That scenario asks Washingtonians to vote strategically and perhaps make some temporary sacrifices in order to more rapidly win the war. Maybe that's not a fair thing to ask, because nobody can guarantee them that their example will ultimately lead to victory.


Well why the fuck should we sacrifice anything? Why should we turn our backs on the growers who have been supplying this area with the HIGHEST quality bud there is?

Why give up all the progress we have made just so we can make weed legal a year sooner?





You people are right. The rest of the country is going to base their laws around our's if this is passed, so why do you want your laws based around unjust and ridiculous laws that are designed solely to monopolize and take over the cannabis industry?


WE have the power to change these laws, they cannot ignore this issue any longer, but for you people to say we should give up the last 100 years of fighting just so we can have legal weed a little bit sooner (instead of, you know.... actually voting for a fair and just law) is frankly just ridiculous.



In 502, if a cop catches an 18yo smoking a joint, he can take him to jail and put him away. Under our current laws, that 18yo would get a $200 ticket. WHY would we want that?


Who's to say that after we pass this law, any others will be passed to fix all the problems that 502 will create? I can almost guarantee we're going to be stuck with whatever we choose for a LONG time, so you guys can fuck off when you tell us to sacrifice what we already have ;)
 
I mean, California voted No in 2010 in order to wait for a better law. They're still waiting.

So then if 514 comes up for a vote next year and the non-smoking majority rejects it, what do you do then?

edit: I've been reading some online discussions on this issue, and they tend to get nasty. I really hate seeing that. We're all overwhelmingly on the same side, and while it's good we're passionately debating this, the shit-talking and abuse is pointless.
 
Folley said:
You're right, this is the first law, and who's to say there will be any more following this one? If this law comes into power than we're not going to see the major reform that we all want for another 10 years at least

You're saying you might not get another chance at reforming this bill for another 10 years if it passes. Well who says you're even gonna get another shot at legalization full stop for at least that long? At least once it's legalized and people start openly talking about it, the debate about the finer issues will come out of the shadows. There's gonna be far more opportunity of debating and working out the kinks once law changes then there is of finding your "perfect bill" in the next ten years. How can you not see that?

sekio;10851169 said:
The average guy who wants some chronic isn't going to have a prime quality commercial hydroponic setup, he probably doesn't even water his houseplants.

I just had to make another post to re-quote this, because it's spot on. Most people couldn't care less about growing it for themselves. Just like the average beer drinker isn't interested in spending his time fermenting hops. He just wants to go to the store or the local bar and grab a nice cool beer (brewed by a company who knows what they're doing).

Folley said:
and yeah, now we can't grow weed... but the penalties for doing so are very light. If we pass 502 those laws become very stiff

Like S.J.P said above, it does seem like you're putting the "right to produce and sell a drug" above the "individual's right to possess and consume a drug". As has been pointed out before, it's almost irrelevant to most people, because most people do not want to be "producers". I bet many of those voting against it aren't even gonna bother going to the trouble of growing their own plants on a sustainable basis.

I also noticed you wrote this in respone to 23536's comment about "100,000 dead mexicans". When you think of the big picture, about the horrible collateral devastation caused by the war on drugs, don't you think it's pretty ridiculous to be holding up a legalization drive by arguing about not being able to grow your own? Sure you should be able to grow your own and sell it, and by principle it's wrong to stop a person from doing so, but it's also damn less important at the moment than the priority of getting things out of the hands of the murderous cartels and being free to buy, possess, and consume it without having to skulk around shadily playing cat and mouse with law enforcement.

I wonder, if it was a member of your close family who got murdered by a ruthless drug cartel if you'd still be whining about not being able to grow your own. You'd probably be thankful that you had the chance to spark the revolution of drug reform (in the most consumptive country on the planet) which will bring an end to such a horrendous situation. Of course, when it's not happening to you....

23536 said:
That scenario asks Washingtonians to vote strategically and perhaps make some temporary sacrifices in order to more rapidly win the war. Maybe that's not a fair thing to ask, because nobody can guarantee them that their example will ultimately lead to victory.

I think it is a fair thing to ask. Laws are being amended all the time. The point is to get the ball rolling while the chance is there, and the details can be sorted out later. No, there's no "guarantee" their example will ultimately lead to victory, but it certainly can't lead to a worse failure than the system already in place. To procrastinate endlessly just because you can't get it how you want it right now is a waste of everyone's time, and is holding up the entire process of drug reform. That's why those of us who want to see all drugs legalized (not just cannabis - I don't even like cannabis personally) for the benefit of everyone are willing to put up with this process of 'testing the waters' with cannabis legalization first, because we know that it is probably the most effective route to achieve our goals.
 
Folley;10854218 said:
WE have the power to change these laws, they cannot ignore this issue any longer, but for you people to say we should give up the last 100 years of fighting just so we can have legal weed a little bit sooner (instead of, you know.... actually voting for a fair and just law) is frankly just ridiculous.

Once again, you're talking bollocks though. You said in a previous post that if this bill passes you won't get another shot at reform (of this law) for another 10 years (a projection you pulled out of your ass), yet you seem to be simultaneously arguing that you will get many more opportunities at legalization within that time-frame. Sorry mate, but I see through your cynical word games. Because what you're proposing is utter nonsense.

This is about selfish growers just protecting their own interests.
 
23536;10854457 said:
So then if 514 comes up for a vote next year and the non-smoking majority rejects it, what do you do then?

Do what we always do, hand out small tickets to anyone caught with under 10g of weed and throw giant festivals about cannabis on the Seattle waterfront where thousands of people gather and smoke weed in front of our police force..


Even most of the non-smokers here are for marijuana legalization/decriminalization anyways... it's really just the old people that oppose it haha


There's gonna be far more opportunity of debating and working out the kinks once law changes then there is of finding your "perfect bill" in the next ten years.

There's a mostly perfect bill already, it's called 514. Not to mention, most people don't give a shit about growing because they can't produce a plant that will yield $500+ worth of product. Under 502, you HAVE to buy all that weed from them.


and who says this law will be amended, at all? You sure they won't just establish their monopoly and leave it at that? Because I really doubt that after this passes we will be able to make any more progress... they aren't just going to give up a business they can have complete control over to make billions because the people want some more rights.

No, if we vote this in, we're stuck with it, and every other state that follows our example will base their laws around ours. That's why we need to get it right, not just vote for the first law that makes weed a bit easier to get because we can't keep it in our pants.
 
I couldn't agree anymore with some of these comments. I'm a Washintonian and I feel like everyone is getting muddled with the small details, instead of focusing on the point of it all.
THE POINT being that pot becomes legal, regardless of how it gets there.

I can't believe people are getting caught up in the small details. Vote for it, pass it, and THEN amend it. Don't shut it down simply because you want to be able to grow your own shit. Who cares about taxes? Taxes are the only way the government is going to be okay with this. Nothing is forever in politics, so don't let small details hold you back.

The bottom line is that people are sweating the small details when in reality ANYTHING is better than the current situation. right? I'm afraid that if we pass up this opportunity, we may not have another one.
 
Folley your entire argument is facecious.


WEED IS ILLEGAL TO GROW AND POSSESS RIGHT NOW


It could be WEED IS ILLEGAL TO GROW.


So when I get my dank from a buddy tax free, and on my way home I get pulled over... you know what happens? Fucking, nothing. You know what happens right now? I go to jail.
 
I think you people are confused about something.


There are TWO ballots right now. This one, which is obviously horribly structured to ONLY to give money to the Government... or we can vote for a FAIR law created by Marijuana activists and people who actually want to REFORM these laws for the better.




I'm perfectly fine with waiting a few extra months, maybe even YEARS if we have to, so that we can actually get a just law in instead.



502 is cool and all, but if you vote for it you're fucking stupid. There are two ballots right now, why the fuck would you vote for the one that is obviously structured only to put money in their pockets, rather than the one setting a precedent for the basic human right of being able to use a plant?





I want weed legal as much as anyone else, I really do. But we ARE going to make weed legal, the majority of Americans want it, and the Government realizes it.... we don't need to sacrifice anything to achieve this, we just need to unite under one JUST law (514) and we will get what we want.



The lobbyists probably doing their damnedest at hiding 514 from the public eye, that's why it's not mentioned here.... they want this law passed as much as we do.... that should tell you something about their intentions, because they don't give a FUCK if people are going to jail or not


$linky;10861954 said:
So when I get my dank from a buddy tax free, and on my way home I get pulled over... you know what happens? Fucking, nothing. You know what happens right now? I go to jail.


No, you get a $200 ticket if the cop doesn't like you. If he does, he's probably just going to take your shit.
 
514 was also not mentioned in the story because it's not on the ballot

502 polled at 55% in July. I wonder how it would score today.
 
i think it's bullshit to be against this, if the government shops don't offer quality and price better than street dealers you can still buy off the street, and if they do shit, fuck the dealers. it's a step in the right direction. further legalization can come in another bill.
 
23536;10862454 said:
514 was also not mentioned in the story because it's not on the ballot

Yet...



Honestly (if I was old enough..), I would probably vote for 502... because you guys are right, having something is better than nothing.


But I don't think you guys really understand what 502 will do. Legalizing marijuana is a small part of this, the only reason this has even gotten as far as it has is because the lobbyists are damn excited to start making their billions in tax dollars.


What they're really trying to do is privatize the marijuana industry. Right now, you can grow weed (illegally, but the punishments are still very light) and get a thousand dollars or more of product with every crop.... that's one thousand dollars they aren't making, which is why we can't grow under this law.


I just don't think that this first horrible law to come by is the one we should be throwing all of our support behind... you know?

I mean, we ARE going to legalize marijuana, the majorities want it.... we don't need to settle for this shitty law... though we probably will.





further legalization can come in another bill.

No one can guarantee this. Common sense says the Government will never give up control of the monopoly that will make them billions once they have it
 
I mean, no offense, but without a doubt, anyone who opposes 502 in favor of 514 is a greedy son of a bitch, no?
You're saying that you're so afraid of losing your crop that gets you a thousand of dollars at a time? Sounds like you are lining your profits by weed being illegal. Sounds, to me, like the cartels without the violence. Just food for thought. Yeah, and you're also screwing over the movement that made the medical industry in the first place!

Now, the kicker to the 514 only supporters. Guess what? If you come out against 502, and it fails because of the organized support against it, you know, all of the money that comes into Washington for reform very well may dry up. Fewer supports will bother giving Washington money, because Washington is going to use that money to fight back against what it was paid for.

So congratulations, if you stop the passage of 502, there will be no 514! Or any other bill in Washington.
Nice job.
 
f33lg00d;10850286 said:
Well 502 is obviously not perfect, but it's a step. I dont see any reason that someone pro full legalization would appose it.

Letdown.taken, played 4fool
 
curioushat;10865947 said:
So congratulations, if you stop the passage of 502, there will be no 514! Or any other bill in Washington.
Nice job.


Lol.

No one can say this for sure, not with a serious face on at least.


You're saying that you're so afraid of losing your crop that gets you a thousand of dollars at a time? Sounds like you are lining your profits by weed being illegal.


I don't grow, or sell.

But I CAN get dank ass medical quality weed for pretty damn cheap prices. If I wanted to buy an ounce of Medical weed it's $350 plus tax... that's ridiculous.

Those of us who are heavy smokers are going to be paying a LOT more for weed (15 a gram usually), and you can add a hefty tax on top of that. Now all the sudden that gram is costing you almost $20... yeah, there's no way I could continue to smoke with those kind of prices.
 
People in Washington need to take what they can get. While the law might not be ideal, it is a step in the right direction. Prohibition won't end over night. Back when alcohol prohibition was repealed, only beer with less than 3% alcohol was legal initially. Over time, alcohol possession laws have evolved to where they are now. Don't expect cannabis to be much different.
 
Folley;10862118 said:
No, you get a $200 ticket if the cop doesn't like you. If he does, he's probably just going to take your shit.

Okay, so a 200$ ticket where this bill is being voted on.


Would I rather pay a 200$ fine, and have to go to court, or would I rather just go home?

Yeah...


Stop putting the rights of producers ahead of the individual. It's your kind of thinking that made Corporations = People in the US.




You continually claim that the prices of weed will go up because of taxation. While you're right on the taxation adding to the cost of weed, you're forgetting that since weed is illegal it is marked up an incredible amount. You're not only buying a product, you're paying extra because your dealer is risking his freedom to sell it. If weed was legal, yes taxation would be added to the prices, but the added competition that legality brings will drive the prices down. You will only be paying for the product, not the risks.
 
$linky;10872988 said:
Stop putting the rights of producers ahead of the individual. It's your kind of thinking that made Corporations = People in the US.


This makes no fucking sense.


I want everyone in America to be able to have a few plants growing in the balcony so they won't have to give their money to ANY corrupt organization, whether it's the Cartel or the Government.




I think you guys need to take a step back, come down off the high of "oh, weed might be legal! (in a place where it's practically legal)" and ask yourselves if you really want to privatize marijuana. This law is just another attempt to corporatize a plant that will make them millions...


I for one would just like to see the power over production of marijuana in the hands of the people, not the Government we all know and hate
 
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