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Heroin Making the abstinence v.s methadone arguement a separate thread.

Adnilem

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Joined
Jun 20, 2021
Messages
13
Location
Southeast Alaska
Maybe the person who said abstinence is the best way was talking about for people who don't shoot up and only smoke it..? Everyone who hears that someone does heroin assumes that they are going to overdose and die. But it's practically impossible to die from only smoking it. If its not that hard to OD smoking it then I want to know where you get your stuff, haha.

I can agree with the person saying abstinence is the best way because I don't want to replace my addiction with another. The plan was to get unaddicted. I know what the word treatment means and I know it is the best advice someone can give to someone who shoots up. Only because of the 99.9% chance they will relapse after quitting.

For those who don't shoot up and only smoke it. Abstinence sounds like a wonderful idea. But there are risks. Depending on your age you can even have a heart attack because your heart won't be able to handle the sudden changes in your body. Lots of other things could happen I imagine you could get seriously dehydrated and have to be hospitalized for that even. You have to have a plan.

You have to make your plan as solid as possible. You have to believe in it. You have to believe in yourself. You have to believe things will get better and be a lot better once you're through this.

I'm currently pretty hardcore addicted. To smoking it. I have never seriously tried quitting. But I have been developing my plan. What I'm going to do is make posters beforehand of everything that motivates me written in big print and hang them all over my walls. Things like any motivational quotes. Like literally anything that reminds me of why I need to quit, and why I want to. The posters will have lists of things to watch out for, like triggers. And I will have plans to avoid them.

Some people don't realize their addiction is also a habit. Something you've become accustom to doing everyday, like a ritual. When I was addicted to smoking oxy 80's they ran out in my tiny town and the only thing around were the unsmokable "football" 80's. My dude said only one person was buying them. Probably because everyone was actually addicted to the act of smoking it.

You can be addicted to the act of just going out to get it. Or addicted to spending money. You're going to need some supportful friends if you're trying to quit all by yourself. This might be where you realize all of your friends do drugs too. You're going to have to tell them beforehand that you're going to start trying to quit and which day. Because if they call you up needing your help getting something you're going to want to help them because they're your friend. And that will be a sudden trigger and probably justification to go get some "one more time".

When you're trying to quit and want support you might realize the only person you even interact with is your drug dealer. Part of your plan should include what happened between you and everyone who is important to you in your life and make plans to amend things. You can only do this once you've quit. You'll be a better person, guaranteed.

There are so many reasons I want to quit. I can't go on vacation because I will be sick once I get there and be sick the whole time. I can't go see a concert if I wanted to. I live in Alaska by the way. Going anywhere means going by plane. I'm always broke. I wish someone told me before I got addicted that I would be spending literally every dime to my name every chance I get for what could be the rest of my life. With a gram costing $250 here, I could have so much cool shit that I actually want. People would be impressed. I would be impressed, lol. I would still own all that stuff too! It wouldn't be smoked in less than 24 hours.

I haven't sought treatment of any kind because I'm afraid of it going on my permanent medical record. I'm afraid in the future when I need real painkillers possibly from even a car accident it will be really hard to get what I need. I've also heard that these things could go on another sort of record that potential employers could see. I just know sometimes it's hard for people to even get housing or a new job. I don't want to be in the future and have someone suddenly have doubts in me or completely not trust me over the way I was 10-20 years ago.

I can get suboxone for free from my doctor. They're use to people coming in needing help with this all the time. They wouldn't be surprised. But I am somewhat afraid of the being judged part also. I really don't want suboxone either because it has some side effects that are just as unbearable as cold turkey withdrawals. Either it doesn't make some things more manageable or it adds something like it use to be my legs were restless now it's my arms and my neck. And I feel like I can't stretch them enough. Like my bones are trying to get out of my skin. I don't think a methadone clinic exists here. You can be subscribed it but you have to have a referral specifically from a substance abuse councelor.

I will probably end up doing the suboxone program once I'm good and ready and finally hate smoking heroin with all my heart and soul and despise and can't stand it or the person I've become and when I finally can't stand spending every dime I have on literally nothing. Then I will probably end up on it because I'll be excited to do it correctly and taper off. I know someone who still does suboxone everyday just to get rid of the sniffles and probably some other aches and pains and stuff and it's been like 6 or 7 years since he's done heroin. That's not part of my plan.

What works for me coming down cold turkey is being in the bathtub. It's a pretty good distraction compared to anything else. I'll be in there for 15 or 20 minutes. Sometimes an hour or 2. But I'll be in there for 15-20 minutes like, 15 times a day. So part of my plan would be a shitload of new clean towels. Because I don't have the energy or strength to dry off when I get out I just get wrapped up and go straight back in bed. Theres no such thing as eating when I come down cold turkey but I know that if I made it to day 2 and 3 I would have to force myself to eat something. And definitely force myself to drink water. Even if it's just a spoonful of water in little sips while in the tub, or anything. Its crucial. Force yourself to do that if anything. You need to practice self discipline in little ways before your final quit day. Practice little things to remind yourself you can do anything you want to when you set your mind on it. My plan was to quit cigarettes first, because it would be easier than quitting heroin, in a way. Easier as in you don't get unbearably sick and want to put a gun to your head. It would just show me that I can do something that's important to me.

Another thing to think about is all the people who had to quit because they went to jail for a long period of time. Those people quit cold turkey. And if they stayed sober when they get out they might be pretty happy about how it all went down, looking back at it. I mean there will be suffering. But eventually it just gets better. "In about 2 weeks you'll actually start feeling like a human being again." I've heard that from someone who quit from being in jail for a year. They were someone who shot up.

I think I've said all I wanted to. Abstinence is actually my plan because it seems like the best and only way possible. As in way to get out of this addicted controlled going nowhere life I have. I've thought about this like, literally everyday.

I've already made this a separate thread since I realize I'm not really giving any advice to the person starting methadone soon. I wanted your opinions too though. The people who have already been responding and talking about the abstinence argument.
 
Last edited:

GetMeOutOfThisCRAP

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Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
1,709
I literally do not know a single person who quit heroin on their own accord, lol. They all were stopped by the law or their family.. because as we know heroin feels really damn good! I commend your progress. Whether you relapse and are on dope more than ever before for months on end keep trying!

All anyone has to do to break free from heroin addiction is never stop making attempts to get clean. Usually around the 10,000th time or so everyone makes it out who keeps trying their best. Heroin feels very good and is very fun to put in your brains. It is not as fun to quit, lol. Heroin withdrawal seems like a very not fun recreational experience..

If you can not break free, I highly recommend methadone and there is no shame in it! Suboxone if your doses are able to withstand suboxone's weaker intensity. Heroin is not something people walk away from and never look back. They violently relapse and constantly refute any progress (and no blame for them doing so it feels pretty awesome...). As long as you don't stop trying (and make sure you don't overdose if you relapse and it feels "oh my god whoah" again. Remember after withdrawing or some time away your tolerance can be deadly low. Too many have made that mistake and overdosed from the joy of being back to "wow this feels really gooood yessss."

Even a feeling like heroin gets a little boring after the millionth time when you're nodding out in a chair. Sometimes you want to just do arts and crafts or take a hike, lol. Most people seem to abuse heroin into oblivion until "I can't get high anymore!" But we both know that point was not quick, and anyone thoroughly enjoyed the ride until it stopped working. I don't want to cast doubts into your mind or challenge your self-progress.. I've just never seen sobriety off heroin being a choice... My mother was very distraught when the police took her dope away and she had to cold turkey the aftermath, lol. She does say that she is much happier off of heroin than on it! Eventually it makes you so fucking depressed... maybe the low testosterone from repeated usage, or just the "wow I might die from this and never break free" energy that heroin addiction has. Either way, you'll make it out as long as you don't decide to do dope 24/7 forever and ever.

It sucks that in the beginning opiates are the best anti-depressant I will ever and have ever known, because after a year or two even the incredible high seems to make you want to not live anymore lol! There are subjective and objective factors to opiates no longer being a good drug.. but shooting up the best dope and feeling stone cold sober is game over. You can take more dope or stronger opies but it's going to be a bad time. Especially when the withdrawal hits and your pooping yourself and crying (always a bad time).
 

chinup

Moderator: H&R, EADD
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All anyone has to do to break free from heroin addiction is never stop making attempts to get clean. Usually around the 10,000th time or so everyone makes it out who keeps trying their best.
qft.

i don't know how many times i tried.

and yeah, i've said it a thousand times on here, i didn't get clean off my own bat. my parents changed the locks to my house so i had the choice of going to rehab or being homeless with the clothes on my back. and if i'd have been able to make the money i was homeless on the streets i'd have seriously considered the latter.

OP i don't think there is such a big difference between shooting vs smoking- i smoked for most of my heroin using career and i don't think that switching to iv made a massive difference to my underlying addiction. it did make me way more reckless though.

i had to go the abstinence route cos i've never chipped succesfully. and my opioid receptors are fucked so i get sick from using. last time i did heroin on a week long lapse last year the rattle was almost as bad as when i'd been using full time for ages.
 

Adnilem

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 20, 2021
Messages
13
Location
Southeast Alaska
I literally do not know a single person who quit heroin on their own accord, lol. They all were stopped by the law or their family.. because as we know heroin feels really damn good! I commend your progress. Whether you relapse and are on dope more than ever before for months on end keep trying!

All anyone has to do to break free from heroin addiction is never stop making attempts to get clean. Usually around the 10,000th time or so everyone makes it out who keeps trying their best. Heroin feels very good and is very fun to put in your brains. It is not as fun to quit, lol. Heroin withdrawal seems like a very not fun recreational experience..

If you can not break free, I highly recommend methadone and there is no shame in it! Suboxone if your doses are able to withstand suboxone's weaker intensity. Heroin is not something people walk away from and never look back. They violently relapse and constantly refute any progress (and no blame for them doing so it feels pretty awesome...). As long as you don't stop trying (and make sure you don't overdose if you relapse and it feels "oh my god whoah" again. Remember after withdrawing or some time away your tolerance can be deadly low. Too many have made that mistake and overdosed from the joy of being back to "wow this feels really gooood yessss."

Even a feeling like heroin gets a little boring after the millionth time when you're nodding out in a chair. Sometimes you want to just do arts and crafts or take a hike, lol. Most people seem to abuse heroin into oblivion until "I can't get high anymore!" But we both know that point was not quick, and anyone thoroughly enjoyed the ride until it stopped working. I don't want to cast doubts into your mind or challenge your self-progress.. I've just never seen sobriety off heroin being a choice... My mother was very distraught when the police took her dope away and she had to cold turkey the aftermath, lol. She does say that she is much happier off of heroin than on it! Eventually it makes you so fucking depressed... maybe the low testosterone from repeated usage, or just the "wow I might die from this and never break free" energy that heroin addiction has. Either way, you'll make it out as long as you don't decide to do dope 24/7 forever and ever.

It sucks that in the beginning opiates are the best anti-depressant I will ever and have ever known, because after a year or two even the incredible high seems to make you want to not live anymore lol! There are subjective and objective factors to opiates no longer being a good drug.. but shooting up the best dope and feeling stone cold sober is game over. You can take more dope or stronger opies but it's going to be a bad time. Especially when the withdrawal hits and your pooping yourself and crying (always a bad time).
I feel like you didn't read anything I said. Your response wasn't helpful at all. But thank you for your encouragement. 🙂👍
 

Adnilem

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 20, 2021
Messages
13
Location
Southeast Alaska
qft.

i don't know how many times i tried.

and yeah, i've said it a thousand times on here, i didn't get clean off my own bat. my parents changed the locks to my house so i had the choice of going to rehab or being homeless with the clothes on my back. and if i'd have been able to make the money i was homeless on the streets i'd have seriously considered the latter.

OP i don't think there is such a big difference between shooting vs smoking- i smoked for most of my heroin using career and i don't think that switching to iv made a massive difference to my underlying addiction. it did make me way more reckless though.

i had to go the abstinence route cos i've never chipped succesfully. and my opioid receptors are fucked so i get sick from using. last time i did heroin on a week long lapse last year the rattle was almost as bad as when i'd been using full time for ages.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. Yeah my friends tell me about how its possible to just do heroin sometimes. When I say I'm probably going to be addicted forever. What I mean by that isn't I'm probably going to be doing this every day forever but just that I'm going to want to do it and dream about doing it in the future long after I've quit.

The hardest part about getting sober isn't quitting it's staying quit. I've been to an NA meeting once and I didn't like it because it was all depressing stories. Maybe that was just the topic of the day but none of it was encouraging at all to me. I just wanted to see what it was all about. A lot of people were there but they all sounded super depressed.

I'm an incredibly like, overly optimistic person. I lack in the motivation, self-discipline area. I do like to think I have great willpower, though. I'm very aware that I'm capable of doing anything in the world RIGHT NOW if I just get up and do it. But I can't just get up and not do heroin. Or get up and not smoke cigarettes. Or get up and do the dishes. I have to want it bad enough. I'm getting there.

The purpose of this thread was from another thread actually this person was saying that methadone isn't a treatment and abstinence is the only real way to quit. What they meant was that methadone is just replacing one addiction for another. It was a huge arguement lots of people got upset and offended. I wanted to remind people that some of us only smoke it. Therefore the quitting then relapsing and overdosing thing doesn't apply. That person also didn't understand that treatment doesn't mean cure it means making something better, treating it.
 

chinup

Moderator: H&R, EADD
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it took a long time but i genuinely don't want to do heroin ever again. i felt heartbroken for a long time. i still go through phases where i think it would be nice but my lapses since i got to rehab have shown its not worth it.

try NA again, it really helped me. i get what you mean- but recovering from addiction isn't all sunshine and roses, it would be unrealistic if everyone in those rooms was happy all the tme. or try SMART or other types of mutual support meetings.

i've known plenty of people who only smoked heroin who found going onto methadone really helpful. its more about having a routine and being able to rein in the chaos that addiction inevitably causes.
 

Adnilem

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 20, 2021
Messages
13
Location
Southeast Alaska
That’s fine if your not completely ready to stop but my point was that methadone has long claws and withdrawal is brutal compared to heroin which after 3-4 days is maxed out and slowly improves over the next 2 weeks , methadone doesn’t start easing up for a few weeks to a month and lingers on for months .

The only real treatment for heroin addiction is abstinence, if you take any other drug so you don’t go thru withdrawal your simply substitute one drug for another,Period…
A lot of people argued but my final plan to quit involves abstinence and that's pretty much always been my plan. I've done a lot of research to prepare for it. I don't want to be ADDICTED to anything. Is my plan.
 

GetMeOutOfThisCRAP

Bluelighter
Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
1,709
I feel like you didn't read anything I said. Your response wasn't helpful at all. But thank you for your encouragement. 🙂👍

Aww I'm sorry. I must have been out of it or just glancing at your thread and misinterpreting stuff. Sorry I was not more helpful :/ good luck!
 
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