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Magnesium an nmda antagonist? And opiates...

B

blase deviant

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May 9, 2004
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I heard here and on another set of forums magnesium was a nmda antagonist? I searched pubmed for 'magnesium nmda' and 'magnesium nmda antagonist' and found thousands of results, browsed a few pages randomly and found nothing.

Is this true?

I was also wondering if, being an nmda ant., it would potentiate opiates? I know DXM does, but does it due this because it's an nmda antagonist, or is some other method of action responsible for its potentiating opiates?

Either way, I'll probably nab some for constipation, and because amphetamines deplete it.

My multivit. has it, 100mg, which it lists as 100% (my old one had like... 300-500mg listed as 100%), but it's stearate, and I heard most forms have low, low bioavailabiliy, and glycinate is best at 80%, followed by something else at 30%...
 
Well, yes. It's definatly true. But you can't really exploit that fact for recreational uses. Normally, your brain is under a very high level of Mg2+ blockade. Like, the concentration of Mg2+ needed to block 50% of NMDA receptor mediated currents is around the 20µM level. But in your brain, there's gonna be a concentration of around 1mM. So most of the channels are blocked by Mg2+.

The thing is, the Mg2+ NMDA receptor channel blockade is voltage dependent, so when ther neuron gets excited (depolarized), it kicks the Mg2+ out of the channel. But it can't kick Ketamine out, so thats why K gets you high and your magnesium multivitamin wont.
 
Oh I know, I didn't plan on taking the magnesium to get high, I planned on taking it to make opiates stronger, if the nmda antagonism is how dxm makes them stronger.

But I wasn't sure if nmda antagonism was how dxm made opiates stronger, or if it was something else...

EDIT: BTW, does anyone know how bioavailable magnesium oxide is? At first I thought they used mag. stearate, which pissed me off because I thought they were being cheapasses, since magnesium stearate is used in lots of pills, for I dunno a binder/shape/something, and they just used it as that and listed it under magnesium content. Apparently though, that's what they DO use it for, and I missed the mag. oxide higher on the ingredient list.

I still think their magnesium daily value is lower than the old vitamin though. I'll have to check Wal-Mart or GNC or something.

GNC's generally overpriced though, aren't they?
 
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I use calcium/magnesium citrate combination. Since they work synergistically in the body, and have a high rate of absorption that way.
(calcium needs magnesium to absorb properly anyways).


I do this, to make amphetamines more potent/smooth. At the same time it reduces the neurotoxity of the drug.


Either way, magnesium citrate itself is widely available and pretty damn cheap.
The citrate has a much better rate of aborption then oxcide anyways.
Oxcide is the least bioavailable.


You just don't want to take to much of it at once.
 
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Well that was another thing I was thinking about; is the NMDA antagonism the mechanism of DXM potentiation?

But what I was getting at is that Mg2+ mediated blockade is allready pretty maximal, so eating more isn't going to do anything.

Bioavailability is in the rough 50% range 1.
 
I've read that most people are deficient in magnesium so it wouldn't be a bad idea to supplement with some (and calcium with it)
 
I doubt it, but you never know. Magnesium is one of the most prevalent ions in the body. It'd be like someone being deficient in sodium.
 
Most Alcoholics, and stimulant users are said to be deficient in magnesium. Among others, who do not get a proper diet.
Magnesium is not a bad idea, after a hard night of drinking....less hang over in the morning.
 
Magnesium has a mildly sedating effect I have found... I use it in combination with my amphetamines and up to a point it's alright, but to be honest, I can't really say I have noticed a significant increase in the recreational effects. Smoother, yes, but I don't exactly like smooth tweaks anyway.

Also, is Sodium Bicarbonate a supplement or is it basically like a carbonated beverage?
 
Also, I forgot to mention in that last post. Magnesium is supposed to cause retention of amphetamines in the bloodstream. That's the original reason I started supplementing it with my amphetamines.
 
BliZ0r thanks for that post... about ketamine and other NMDA antagonist like mementine, do they cause damage irreversable damage in your opinion?
 
kinda both in and out of the topic- Calcium at 1200mg increases my well-being alot, anybody got a clue why?
 
It shouldn't. I originally started to supplement with Magnesium/Calcium/Zinc to help with my sleep. It didn't really. I still take it because I lift weights, though.
 
I don't think sensible doses of ketamine or other NMDA-antagonists cause neurotoxicity -AS SHOWS BY OLNEY et al.,; whether they cause subtle changes in neuronal wiring due to alterations in synaptic plasticity, however, is a different matter altogether. I don't know many hard-core Dexers or K-users, but I hear from others that you get pretty fucking loopy if you use chronically (the same with most drugs really, GHB, cannabis, mushrooms... in my opinion).
 
Cannabis might be a stretch, blizor, but I agree with the others. Another thing is what is sensible? a regular dose for recreational use?
 
Well, it's not really a stretch here.. There's lot's of evidence Cannabis (and those other drugs) can cause behavioral changes if used for long enough, the question is; "Will it be reversible or not?" And in some cases it isn't, which suggests damage.
 
Is citrate bioavailable? I looked everywhere for glycinate, but couldn't find it (cept online, and $5-7 S/H for a $4 product?).

I still wonder if it'd potentiate opiates, but I doubt it. And it increases amphetamine levels in the blood? How strongly, compared to say... baking soda/antacids? This is bad, because I was taking it to make them smoother/more level, but if they potentiate it as well... BLEH.

And slightly off-topic, does DXM/NMDA-ant. increase excitotoxicity(?) or no? E.x. if I took 30mg of DXM to potentiate opiates during an amphetamine comedown, would it make the amphetamines screw up my brain worse, or protect it (or neutral, which is acceptable)?

-Thanks.
 
If something else is causing excitotoxicity, like lack of oxygen... the DXM and other NMDA-antagonists, help prevent the damage.

But on its own, Olney et al., say that blocking NMDA channels everywhere, stops a certain group of inhibitory neurons from firing, which causes a certain group of other neurons to become hyperexcitable (because of the lack of inhibition), and that causes excitotoxicity, either in those cells, or in cells they fire onto.

Amphetamines though, don't cause neurotoxicity via excitotoxicity. They cause it via some unknown, probably MOA-B mediated effect.
 
Ah, thanks.

I just figured it'd be excitotoxicity, since amphetamines speed you up.

So I assume that basically the DXM (at a therapeutic dose... 30mg or so) would have no effect at all on the damage the amphetamines were doing to my brain...? Cool.
 
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