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LSD vs. psilocybin psychosis

thegreenhand

thegreenhand

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Does anyone know of any studies indicating that LSD may be more prone to cause psychosis due to it's D2 action as opposed to psilocybin's strictly serotonergic action? LSD is subjectively identified by most people to be significantly more stimulating than mushrooms, presumably due to its dopaminergic action. Stimulant psychosis is a well identified phenomenon and I'm wondering if LSD is more stimulant like in nature than previously thought. My personal experiences would certainly indicate so...
 
It won't be that significant. LSD hits lots of different receptors. By the time you get sufficient D2 activity for what you're talking about, you'll be going through transient ego death.
 
I and my peer group always found psilocybin mushrooms to be far more stimulating than LSD.
 
I'd second the point about duration. The same with dissociatives, the shortest acting ones (K and 2F-DCK) are the least psychotomimetic ones, even with repeated use, imho.
 
All interesting points, thanks everyone. Probably would be no real way to quantify such a question anyways
 
I don't know if it should be delineated as psychosis, as even people with schizophrenia can mark the difference between the psychedelic experience and their own symptoms.
 
AlphaMethylPhenyl said:
I don't know if it should be delineated as psychosis, as even people with schizophrenia can mark the difference between the psychedelic experience and their own symptoms.
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Ehh I'm gonna disgaree on this one. I think the main issue is that psychosis can take many forms. Even methamphetamine psychosis and psychosis triggered by schizophrenic symptoms take on different appearances. I don't necessarily think that the lack of a known biological mechanism means that it isn't psychosis, rather it may be of a variety triggered mainly by cognitive malfunction instead of biological malfunction.
 
We could go in circles on this. I just don't want the shared name to advise that the experiences are the same.
 
Usually LSD psychosis arises from resistance to the trip by the person to the strong effects of ego dissolution so they get trapped in delusional hell loop fighting for their ego thus run around screaming as they now in limbo trapped between the physical realm and another dimension.
 
TripSitterNZ said:
Usually LSD psychosis arises from resistance to the trip by the person to the strong effects of ego dissolution so they get trapped in delusional hell loop fighting for their ego thus run around screaming as they now in limbo trapped between the physical realm and another dimension.
Click to expand...
I agree with that analysis but it does leave me desiring a more “neuroscientific” explanation for lack of a better word. I don’t mean to cause any drama, just curious that’s all
 
Does anybody know how high the risk of causing a psychosis with classic psychedelic compounds (5HT2A-partial-agonists) is? What other factors play a role (Set and Setting, genetic predisposition )? Hints on recommended scientific papers would be especially appreciated.
 
It's nonzero, but otherwise impossible to accurately predict without knowing a lot more about the individual in question.

For most people, with no major life stressors and no pre-existing history of mental disorder, the risk is very low. But "heroic" dosing, major stress in your life, a history of psychosis, etc all increase the risk by some amount (The worst case would be if you are very stressed, being actively medicated for a mental disorder, and have gone off your meds to trip, planning to take a very large dose. Even then, it's not a certainty.)

In fact, there are some scattered reports that psychedelic use (namely LSD/psilocybin) can help to resolve certain mental disorders (depression, anxiety) as well as induce positive mystical/religious experiences of great personal significance. That is, when taken in the appropriate context, and at a responsible dose. (Actually, there's even reports of people having massive LSD overdoses and coming away from the experience feeling better for it. So what do I know?)
 
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LSD seems more likely to spin you out in a weird direction, mentally. This is just anecdotally of course. Acid's dopamine action probably has something to do with it. Whereas I understand psilocybin doesn't play on dopamine.

I always feel like LSD is "happier" but more unrealistically "idealistic", and mushrooms while "darker" have felt more "grounded."
 
Is there any agreement on what of the three (LSD, psilocybin, DMT) is most therapeutic? I've read one study on it. Also, on comparing the risk for a bad trip?

There will probably be tons of this material via studies within the next ten years.
 
I think the major difference between those three is in the duration of the experience. I know psilocybin and LSD work, but DMT might be a little short-lasting if you're smoking or injecting it without MAOI.
 
DMT is by far if used right the number one thing for transforming your life. I have seen the magic of dmt cure peoples meth addictions over and over. LSD and shrooms are also up there but the greatest therpaeuitic combo would be 200 ug of LSD then smoking DMT 10 hours in.
 
I really think it comes down to personality type and the issues the individual is dealing with
 
That isn't something that can be quantified because it is completely different for each individual. Some people try psilocybin and have extremely introspective and spiritual experiences, while another will say it just made them feel uncomfortable and confused.

I have a large amount of DMT that I share with anyone that wants to do it and I can tell you that it totally depends on the person. People with experience using psychedelics are more likely to get something from smoking DMT than inexperienced people.

I think DMT should be oral ingested (ayauhausca) for the most therapeutic effect. Smoking/vaporizing is great IMO but with such a short duration the intense feelings of revelation can be hard to grasp befpre it slips through your fingers, so to speak. Plus it's just so fucking psychedelic its hard to put the experience into words.
 
Is it true that DMT takes you much further away than especially psilocybin (of which I already had an overdose, out of self grown mushrooms which were much more potent than I imagined, and they failed to induce ego-death) or LSD? And that with DMT, when smoked, it will hit you so fast that real anxiety doesn't even have time to manifest? I am very intrigued in DMT, and a friend who is using it from time to time and overcome her social anxiety with it told me these things but as usually with information from just one person I keep staying wary about.. the anxiety on said overdose was nothing I ever wanted to experience again, it was heavy enough to scare me away from all psychedelics (besides the not-really-psychedelic dissociatives which are absolute anxiolytics in me)
 
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