LSD blotters sublingually vs. LSD blotter solution

[Cowboy Mac]

During the discussion of the LSD storage and purity/potency issues thread I posted this response which is also shown below.

i was just reading a post on maps and came across this:

Incidentally, ingesting LSD dissolved into (chlorine-free) water will smooth the introductory phase of the experience (regardless of Vitamin-C pre-treatment); LSD taken on paper tends, otherwise, to start very abruptly.

also from erowid shulgin says

Its possible that poorly synthesized LSD might have other ergot derivatives in it, which might contribute to the harsh body load that some get on taking LSD. Also, the very close chemical relatives 1-Methyl-LSD and 1-Acetyl-LSD (which break down into LSD in aqueous solution) might be present in some street samples and might contribute to the harsh body load. (Petter Stafford has claimed in his _Psychedelics Encyclopedia_ that 1-Acetyl-LSD is supposedly "smoother" than d-LSD -- thus "strychnine laced acid" may acutally be pure d-LSD, while "pure lsd" may be 1-Acetyl-LSD or some substitute). And the chemicals iso-LSD and lumi-LSD which are breakdown products of LSD might contribute to the body loading on some trips, particularly via a hypothetical synergistic effect. Given this plethora of possible chemicals in street "LSD", its not needed to look to a chemical which has hardly ever been found in analysed samples to explain variations in the strength and "cleanliness" of street acid.

interesting none the less. maybe its worth trying a distilled water solution with blotters soaked in to allow the lsd to be released and compare results. anyone done this or can validate or discredit it?

This theory was tested in two experiments where the setting and food ingested prior and during was the same, and set was as similar as could be made possible. A blind test was not possible as the test is comparing LSD blotters sublingually vs LSD blotters in a distilled water solution. The blotters taken were the same in both experiences, and any variation in strength could not be minimised.

The first instance the LSD three blotters were taken orally and absorbed sublingually, with the onset/peak/tail effects and durations noted. The experience was what would be classed as a typical LSD experience with no noticeable abnormalities. This is the experience that would need to be compared against.

The second instance was a repeat of the first except the three LSD blotters were left to sit in a distilled water solution for five minutes. When the blotters were placed into the distilled water they sank to the bottom, and after time increased in thickness (due to water absorption) and floated to the top. This solution was then ingested. The duration was the same as blotters taken sublingually, and again it was a typical LSD experience with what seemed to be no difference in strength.

There was only one definite conclusion could be drawn, that the onset was 'smoother'. What is meant by this is that the LSD effects gradually grew and there was no noticeable start to the experience as is normally experienced. If this was graphed based on effect vs time it would be a nice smooth increase over time, rather than a sudden spike.

This experiment attempted to minimise and if possible eliminate any influencing factors, however placebo (if there was any) could not be minimised as a blind test was not possible.

Can anyone confirm this based on their own experience? Feel free to expand/develop the topic.

 

[nickthecheese]

Empirically done, given the situation

Interesting mac, thanks for posting this. I will report back with personal experence when I next get the opportunity!

 

[Doodle]

Thanks for the post CM

Is Evian considered a distilled water that won't kill LSD? I use it to top up the water for my sea monkeys from time to time and they survive!

Will definitely try this method the next time I get a chance - hopefully in a few weeks!

 

[Cowboy Mac]

Bottled water can still contain impurities that can affect the LSD, so only use distilled water. It can be found in the auto section of K-mart/service stations for example.

 

[ld50 vs ssri]

Cheers for that next time i will use distilled water

 

[Doodle]

Ahh sweet, thanks again CM.


\/ Thanks p_j.

 

[pill_jockey]

It's also often called demineralised water when sold in supermarkets

 

[smileyfish]

Am interested as to whether this would have any impact on nausea associated with an LSD come-up...

I think i may have to contribute to the research in this area at a later date

Smiley (BSc)

 

[phase_dancer]

Or you can do as I do; make your own water from air. Everyday, depending upon demand, the machine in our kitchen produces ~20 liters of reverse osmosis quality water from humidity in the atmosphere.

The machines (there's a few brands available) cost little more than hiring the average water dispenser and buying refills for a year. Depending upon model, the condensed water is UV sterilized, RO (heptachlor) filtered and then passed under pressure through a carbon filter. You also get a choice of hot, warm or chilled.



Smileyfish, as for tummy upsets; in light of Cowboy Mac's post, it seems other things may contribute to this. It's reasonable to suspect many indole derivatives could be potent stimulators of serotonin receptors in the digestive tract. It's also reasonable to expect that a solution of LSD would become less concentrated in a single area of the stomach as may occur when you eat a blotter.

Cheers for the post Mac, it certainly deserves a thread of it's own for quick future reference

 

[Cowboy Mac]

summer is coming and most likely so is the LSD, anyone able to add their own results to this? obviously they would be more effective if you could compare two trips from the same blotter, rather than the possible placebo effect this thread may have caused.

 

[Sllip]

Something I've always wondered. IF LSD is such a delicate chemical then wouldn't it become patially destroyed by stomach acids when you swollow it?

 

[Zaineaol]

u don't swallow it im guessing, cept the watered down one you would... most people alow it to apsorb in the tabs thru the mouth, or leave the liquid to absorb from what i know (i have never taken LSD)

 

[mongman]

Having tried both sucking on tabs, swollowing tabs and puting tabs under my tounge I find that I didn't realy expereince an noticable difference.
I think that when you put it under the tounge or suck on it for a while the saliva that is created would end up in the stomach with LSD in it anyway?

Sllip: Me too! I have always wondered about that.

 

[Cowboy Mac]

Originally posted by mongman
I think that when you put it under the tounge or suck on it for a while the saliva that is created would end up in the stomach with LSD in it anyway?

The benefit of sublingual administration is that the LSD is absorbed directly into the bloodstream. Siliva is also somewhat viscous, so it coats the oesophagus and would probably not get down to the stomach too quickly.

Regarding Sllips question, I don't have a scientific answer for it, however something I omitted in the initial post is that the blotter solution was 20-30ml. Perhaps dr.platypus can give us an insight into the way stomach acids effect drugs/drug absorption.

 

[phase_dancer]

Yes LSD is a reactive molecule - particularly in the presence of a nucleophile like the chloride ion. It will also be likely to be susceptible to hydrolysis at high pH and low pH. Theoretically, the pH of the stomach is low enough to damage the molecule, but because of LSD's salt - the tartrate - this form, besides offering extra stability, is also fairly rapidly absorbed.


From: Changing the salt, changing the drug

CONCLUSION

Different salt forms of a drug differ in ways
that can impact on their clinical efficacy and
safety. Changing the salt form varies the solubility
and rate of dissolution of a drug,
which in turn affects its bioavailability, pharmacokinetic
profile, toxicity, and chemical
stability. Early selection of an appropriate
salt form in the development of a new drug
will influence the timely completion of drug
development and production, an important
factor in accelerating the process of drug
discovery.


Substitution of one salt form for another
can accelerate the onset and duration of biological
activity of a drug and is a recognised
means of reducing its toxic potential or improving
its chemical stability. It is important
to remember, however, that since changing
the salt can dramatically change the properties
of a drug, every salt form of a drug
should be considered as a new medicinal
product and tested appropriately before it is
released for use in clinical practice.

Article: THE PHARMACEUTICAL JOURNAL (VOL 266) © COPYRIGHT 2001