Lost Long Term Morphine Withdrawals

[rock58]

Friends,I'm looking for some advice. My withdrawals seem never-ending. Maybe it is my own fault-?-I'm not sure.
I'll give you a brief history of my drug use. Maybe someone can help me understand.

I'll start from the beginning but try to be brief. I've been on doctor prescribed MS Contin many years,15 yrs. at least. For most of those,I took two 60 mg. pills a twice a day or 240mg. total. Three years ago mandatory reductions began. My doctor decreased it to three 60mg. pills/180 total mg. and later again to 120mg. The goal was not to quit (I'm in a lot of back/neck pain) but to reach the 100mg. morphine equivalent per day regulations.

Currently I have taken some control over my meds in the hope of gaining better pain relief. My plan is to further cut back my dose and to loose some tolerance.
What I have done is this: I have reduced my dose to 30mg. MS Contin per day and supplemented with Kratom to control withdrawals. This has been going on for over 5 weeks. I still have withdrawal symptoms;sleep is bad and my nose runs like a faucet every morning.

Will this continue unless I quit completely? Am I doing something wrong using Kratom to help? It does work well.
-Thanks for anything.

 

[Mafioso]

Oxycodone isn't really the best opioid to use to taper off due to it's comparatively short half-life. Dropping down from 240mg/day to 30mg/day is no small feat, and if the only withdrawal symptoms you are experiencing are poor sleep and runny nose, I'd say you are doing quite well and have made it this far while avoiding the more severe WD symptoms.

You aren't doing anything wrong, this is how tapers are supposed to go. You can't avoid withdrawal completely, as that is your body adjusting to the new "normal", but it is possible to mitigate some of the more severe by avoiding throwing your body into rapid detox(cold turkey). Granted, if you were to go cold turkey, the acute withdrawal symptoms won't last more than 2 weeks roughly. Going cold turkey off 240mg/day you can expect some trainspotting(the movie) type withdrawals. Going cold turkey off 30mg/day.. probably just mild-moderate WD lasting 3-5 days before they start to subside. You could probably use kratom to mitigate most the WDs from the 30mg/day oxy, then begin tapering off kratom. Kratom isn't as powerful of an opioid as oxycodone, so the step off will be much smoother as well.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

@rock58

I truly wish you the best with it, to kick a habit like you have had is hell & I'm not going into detail but I can understand your issue 100% (18 years myself on stronger stuff)

1) This the first time in all those years you are trying to get clean?

2) IMHO the most easy part is the actual withdrawl (no sleep, horrific issues with going to the toilet, cramps etc) it is the PAWS that really is the suckerpunch to the addict which in my knowledge can last forever, that will truly test your willpower.

3) The sleep.....oh Lord above I truly feel your pain on that one too, personally it's not lasted for me more than 3 weeks but at that point you are burned out. I find it can take weeks to be able to get back to a full 8 hours per night, Ive never been able to fully ride it out myself as it pushes people to the brink.

4) I'd personally taper off alot slower, if you can still afford the habit why rush it? I'd taper off over the space of 8/10 weeks myself but that is just me, I truly wish you the best with it.

 

[rock58]

Thanks men,I appreciate your help and input here.

I'm no stranger to these things,but it has been a long long time...and these withdrawals seem never-ending. My goal is not to quit,but to get my tolerance way down. Physically I can't function without pain meds-but the doses given now are so low! It's either do it to myself and stay under a doc's care or hit the street. I'm getting too old for that street scene. I have considered a methadone clinic but that creates some attention I'd like to-and hope to-avoid.

My pain is very bad;multiple spinal injuries,lots of surgeries and prosthetics have kept me on my feet at least. When I was on a higher dosage I never complained (hardly-honest) and did well for 15 years. Now they are "helping" me fix what wasn't broken. It seems crazy to me. I can't work,and I can't play either. I'm hoping my solution (cutting back to the bone for awhile) will allow me to enjoy life again.
Do you think this is a good plan? The doc's want me to cut back gradually and then stay at 100mg morphine equivalent. I believe that will leave me in pain and miserable. I also believe if I go very low (30mg.) and then increase to a higher dose,I'll have a chance to enjoy life again....opinions,please!

-Perhaps-maybe-the "experts" are correct and I was over-medicated so long ago. I did not get gradual increases and build a tolerance;I needed a high dose to start. Anyway,I didn't sit around nodding all day;narcotics don't affect me that way.
A bit of my history...I tried heroin back in the late '80's in southern California. Just for 3-4 months. The black tar/half a match head stuff. It made me feel like a well oiled machine and I could work 12 hours a day without complaining of pain. Great solution for a while...except it cost me 90% of my pay. Can't live too long like that and not hit the street. I used alcohol instead. I am an alkie but sober now 25 years. Can't live too long like that either.

 

[Zopiclone bandit]

Why not go to the methadone clinic?
I'm UK based & they toss methadone out all day from the chemist, nobody knows anything if you go over here for it, what makes the USA so different?

 

[Jabberwocky]

wish you all the luck mate! I think I am gonna stay on opioids for my whole life too, since I don't have to hit the street for them the only problem that could occur is running out so I am gonna take that risk. I gave up heavily on quitting this week so let's hope we can decrease our tolerance and maintain it that way!

 

[Mafioso]

Thanks men,I appreciate your help and input here.

I'm no stranger to these things,but it has been a long long time...and these withdrawals seem never-ending. My goal is not to quit,but to get my tolerance way down. Physically I can't function without pain meds-but the doses given now are so low! It's either do it to myself and stay under a doc's care or hit the street. I'm getting too old for that street scene. I have considered a methadone clinic but that creates some attention I'd like to-and hope to-avoid.

My pain is very bad;multiple spinal injuries,lots of surgeries and prosthetics have kept me on my feet at least. When I was on a higher dosage I never complained (hardly-honest) and did well for 15 years. Now they are "helping" me fix what wasn't broken. It seems crazy to me. I can't work,and I can't play either. I'm hoping my solution (cutting back to the bone for awhile) will allow me to enjoy life again.
Do you think this is a good plan? The doc's want me to cut back gradually and then stay at 100mg morphine equivalent. I believe that will leave me in pain and miserable. I also believe if I go very low (30mg.) and then increase to a higher dose,I'll have a chance to enjoy life again....opinions,please!

-Perhaps-maybe-the "experts" are correct and I was over-medicated so long ago. I did not get gradual increases and build a tolerance;I needed a high dose to start. Anyway,I didn't sit around nodding all day;narcotics don't affect me that way.
A bit of my history...I tried heroin back in the late '80's in southern California. Just for 3-4 months. The black tar/half a match head stuff. It made me feel like a well oiled machine and I could work 12 hours a day without complaining of pain. Great solution for a while...except it cost me 90% of my pay. Can't live too long like that and not hit the street. I used alcohol instead. I am an alkie but sober now 25 years. Can't live too long like that either.

That does sound like a very difficult situation to be in... one of the downsides to the attempts to correct the over prescription of opioids is that many doctors/practitioners are afraid of losing their license/practice, so in turn people with actual need are left out in the cold. I hope that in the near future we as a society are able to realize this and find a reasonable middle ground, as the current approach appears to be a bit of an overcorrection.

Even all the legalities aside, I'm doubtful of the safety profile of opioids when used long term. Physical dependence is inevitable, and in turn tolerance becomes unavoidable. This is the logic that doctors used to continually increase dosages, which in essence turns patients who come to them for help with pain into junkies, to put it rather bluntly. I could see it being possible to use maybe once a day or every other day and not raising your tolerance, which means that the same amount is going to have the same amount of effect. But that doesn't seem like an appropriate solution to your situation, as I don't imagine the pain is only once a day or every other day...

Can you describe the withdrawals that are never ending? I'm not completely certain, but if you are taking the same amount every day without fluctuation your body should adjust to the dose(i.e. tolerance drop, withdrawal gone). If that's the case, I might consider seeing a doctor or two about those symptoms rather than attributing them to being from lowering your dose.

 

[rock58]

I agree about the symptoms being too lengthy. But what can I say? I have heard long term morphine use can be tough. I can't think of anything else it could be-but then again I'm not a doctor.
I will ask my family doc and see what he has to say.

I'm sleeping better;maybe 5 hours now which isn't that bad. My nose still drips when I get up.
I have increased the dose another 30mg about 2-3 days ago. That helped,but I still get the above symptoms. Weird. The restlessness,moodiness is gone-not to mention worse stuff like sweats,chills,etc. And my tolerance did drop,I have to admit that much. If I can keep it this way at least life will be tolerable again. I will keep the Kratom doses daily too. The stuff really helps and it's affordable.

Have I mentioned that I always take a bit less than prescribed-? I should have mentioned this,I apologize friends. My original daily dosage of 240mg. MS Contin also included four daily 10mg. hydrocodone. I usually saved those;I rarely took them and never all four. Stashes were necessary for surgeries and I have had a couple dozen total now. It's the joint and/or spinal ones that really hurt during recovery.
Let me briefly explain.
-Now dig this,please-it is hard to believe. I need another rotary cuff shoulder surgery...but my orthopedic doc,who gave me extra morphine generously for the previous 4 shoulder surgeries,now thinks "I take enough to cover things and should be fine" and won't need any extra post surgery meds. I asked for 2-3 weeks worth,and talked to his head nurse and then the man himself. They seem like friendly,sane people-they were in the past,anyway...but that they try to convince me that I really won't need more meds-even temporarily-after surgery! That seems crazy to me. Really freakin' crazy. In truth I am shocked. Who would go through surgery without meds?

I've been through enough now to be an expert on recovery/rehabilitation,yet the people I rely on for help try to convince me of this complete bull. Things have really changed. I think they will drive men to the street.

 

[jbow]

I agree about the symptoms being too lengthy. But what can I say? I have heard long term morphine use can be tough. I can't think of anything else it could be-but then again I'm not a doctor.
I will ask my family doc and see what he has to say.

I'm sleeping better;maybe 5 hours now which isn't that bad. My nose still drips when I get up.
I have increased the dose another 30mg about 2-3 days ago. That helped,but I still get the above symptoms. Weird. The restlessness,moodiness is gone-not to mention worse stuff like sweats,chills,etc. And my tolerance did drop,I have to admit that much. If I can keep it this way at least life will be tolerable again. I will keep the Kratom doses daily too. The stuff really helps and it's affordable.

Have I mentioned that I always take a bit less than prescribed-? I should have mentioned this,I apologize friends. My original daily dosage of 240mg. MS Contin also included four daily 10mg. hydrocodone. I usually saved those;I rarely took them and never all four. Stashes were necessary for surgeries and I have had a couple dozen total now. It's the joint and/or spinal ones that really hurt during recovery.
Let me briefly explain.
-Now dig this,please-it is hard to believe. I need another rotary cuff shoulder surgery...but my orthopedic doc,who gave me extra morphine generously for the previous 4 shoulder surgeries,now thinks "I take enough to cover things and should be fine" and won't need any extra post surgery meds. I asked for 2-3 weeks worth,and talked to his head nurse and then the man himself. They seem like friendly,sane people-they were in the past,anyway...but that they try to convince me that I really won't need more meds-even temporarily-after surgery! That seems crazy to me. Really freakin' crazy. In truth I am shocked. Who would go through surgery without meds?

I've been through enough now to be an expert on recovery/rehabilitation,yet the people I rely on for help try to convince me of this complete bull. Things have really changed. I think they will drive men to the street.

You need to go to another surgeon. Rotator cuff is the most painful surgery you can have. My wife had it. She was not on any painkillers pre-surgery. The doctor put her on 10mg Percocet and 2mg dilaudid. It wasn’t nearly enough. She didn’t get much from the dilaudid so she just took a Percocet every two hours. I inherited the Dilaudid but that’s another story. She got 2-3 refills to make it through PT. Your doctor is ignorant about opiates/opioids. Unbelievable!