Long distance runners - relationship with drugs?

[jimdron]

My question is about performance in training:

Prescription stimulants were neutral for me
Codeine 300 mg was heaven
Weed was bad (I was slow and without breath)

 

[Snafu in the Void]

I can't comment much on other drugs for running but I used to LOVE taking kratom before running a few miles. Was great. The analgesia and stimulation was very good for running IMO.

Also yeah, never enjoyed weed before a run just kinda threw me off. Didn't like it immediately after a run either, usually waited a few hours.

 

[thegreenhand]

I used to hit my THC cart before runs but I was also in high school and hit my THC cart before everything haha

I’ve tried pseudoephedrine before a run and might have a slight benefit but could be entirely placebo

LSD is where it at that though. It definitely has to be less than 100 ug with 30-50 ug being the sweet spot. I feel like my body has endless energy and bounce. The runners high pairs extremely well with the acid high. I’ve only done this three times (I don’t take acid nearly as much I used to lol) but it’s definitely something I plan to do again

 

[MsDiz]

Being on a keto diet improved my long distance running tremendously. I’d alway have taken caffeine too. Like 60mg start, 60 at mile 11, 30mg mile 20 and just push through to end. You’re gonna need loperamide if you do that though, for obvious reasons.

 

[thegreenhand]

Being on a keto diet improved my long distance running tremendously. I’d alway have taken caffeine too. Like 60mg start, 60 at mile 11, 30mg mile 20 and just push through to end. You’re gonna need loperamide if you do that though, for obvious reasons.

Caffeine never paired well me with for running. For one it made me pee a lot but also it felt like my mind body connection was out of place. I felt just a bit off, it’s hard to explain. I know it works well for most people though

 

[Serotonin101]

A little bit of ephedrine does wonders for me. Just gotta keep from going full throttle and burning out too quickly. Makes breathing effortless.

 

[mr peabody]

Maybe have a look here:

News - SPORTS | Psilocybin and Weight Loss ->

Psychedelics and endurance sports: Increased energy and reduced fatigue? by Nate Seltenrich | Psychedelic Science Review | 15 May 2020 One mechanism of action may be similar to taking amphetamines. While anecdotal reports indicate psychedelics are useful in artistic and meditative pursuits...

www.bluelight.org

 

[bongdong]

I have tested/experimented some too, but it's all not very revealing I guess.

I'm not much into caffeine too, not even in race situations, although I tried it extensively for a while. With endurance stuff, I find it important to know what my body is doing and a stimulant is not exactly helping with that. And I see it as part of training/preparation to get to know what it feels like to have a low batch and what games the mind is playing. I sometimes used Kola nut (it's slower and easier on the stomach for me than the coffee bean), but just to get easier off the couch within a long consistent training stretch and not for running itself.

Also did the keto lifestyle for a while, but what this is and does can be read on the net I guess, although it was quite interesting. @PrincessDiz Did you get crazy ripped too? I imagine that that is not always desired when female. I have a low body fat percentage by nature, but once eating that way, I got this pre-race-day-look all the time to the point where it got almost scary.

I tried cannabis a couple of times too, with a vaporizer of course and not exactly for performance reasons. Why I would want to dope myself for training is beyond my understanding anyway. Some light sativa right before a run can really change my mindset and my perception of the whole thing. I run in nature, so that is certainly a factor too, I'm not sure if it would be that pleasant in a city surrounded by cars and stuff. It's really easy to get in a flow state, just letting the scenery fly by, feeling the body so intesely, amazing! One time I got a shitload of insights while running on cannabis; I had to sit down and immediately write them on a piece of paper once I was back home.

Psychedelics can have a strong bodily effect on me too, but that's too unpredictable and I don't take them for sport/training etc. The most impressive and closely related to movement was with LSA, where I 'actually' was floating. No sensation of walking or moving whatsoever, I was just a warm cloud that could be navigated through space by mind alone. Pretty far out, but I wouldn't want to do anything serious in such a state.

 

[MsDiz]

I have tested/experimented some too, but it's all not very revealing I guess.

I'm not much into caffeine too, not even in race situations, although I tried it extensively for a while. With endurance stuff, I find it important to know what my body is doing and a stimulant is not exactly helping with that. And I see it as part of training/preparation to get to know what it feels like to have a low batch and what games the mind is playing. I sometimes used Kola nut (it's slower and easier on the stomach for me than the coffee bean), but just to get easier off the couch within a long consistent training stretch and not for running itself.

Also did the keto lifestyle for a while, but what this is and does can be read on the net I guess, although it was quite interesting. @PrincessDiz Did you get crazy ripped too? I imagine that that is not always desired when female. I have a low body fat percentage by nature, but once eating that way, I got this pre-race-day-look all the time to the point where it got almost scary.

I tried cannabis a couple of times too, with a vaporizer of course and not exactly for performance reasons. Why I would want to dope myself for training is beyond my understanding anyway. Some light sativa right before a run can really change my mindset and my perception of the whole thing. I run in nature, so that is certainly a factor too, I'm not sure if it would be that pleasant in a city surrounded by cars and stuff. It's really easy to get in a flow state, just letting the scenery fly by, feeling the body so intesely, amazing! One time I got a shitload of insights while running on cannabis; I had to sit down and immediately write them on a piece of paper once I was back home.

Psychedelics can have a strong bodily effect on me too, but that's too unpredictable and I don't take them for sport/training etc. The most impressive and closely related to movement was with LSA, where I 'actually' was floating. No sensation of walking or moving whatsoever, I was just a warm cloud that could be navigated through space by mind alone. Pretty far out, but I wouldn't want to do anything serious in such a state.

FYI 18% BF when I’m running normally. I’m a bit lower now but I’m not running as much tbh.

 

[finitelifeform]

I swear by moderately low levels of testosterone and EQ (equipose). This is what performance athletes use, at least they use testosterone as a base anyway at a moderately low dose. Many compounds are good for performance.
This combination along with consistent training had me go from around 25-30 minute 5K to under 20 in a few months. No previous history of prolonged cardio training. No serious training plan involved. You have to get the balance right though as too much test will provide detrimental returns, as will too much EQ. EQ is known to increase RBC which is fantastic for cardio activity, especially endurance. Along with that though it can increase thickness of blood and it's mental side effects, if you take it long enough, can be a major concern (for some anyway).

Caffeine works, as do preworkouts that come with lactate buffers. I take Grenade 50 Cal and as well as blowing my head off it contributes to my effort put into my cardio training and significantly better results, particularly if more intense.

 

[RedRum OG]

Caffeine if you want to dip a toe in

EPO if you are willing to risk your health for performance

Most stimulants are the opposite of what you want for endurance. Most AAS are best suited for hypertrophy. The documentary Icarus on Netflix starts with this topic, before veering into the Olympic AAS scandal. Would recommend

 

[finitelifeform]

Caffeine if you want to dip a toe in

EPO if you are willing to risk your health for performance

Most stimulants are the opposite of what you want for endurance. Most AAS are best suited for hypertrophy. The documentary Icarus on Netflix starts with this topic, before veering into the Olympic AAS scandal. Would recommend

Seeing as testosterone is already present in your body, both female and male in their own way, it doesn't make sense to say AAS is best suited to hypertrophy. Most AAS are derivatives of testosterone, a naturally produced hormone in the body. Your body doesn't primarily utilize testosterone for hypertrophy. That's like saying serotonin is best suited for tripping, seeing as tripping has significant synergy with serotonin. Serotonin has many important uses beyond tripping. We don't have serotonin in our bodies to purely trip and enjoy MDMA. Our discovery of certain compounds and their involvement with certain hormones is simply a byproduct of that discovery, not THE reason why the hormones exist in the first place.

I'm always puzzled why people relate testosterone purely to hypertrophy. It's just stereotyping and lack of awareness of what hormones are responsible for and what you can do with them.

Testosterone is the base for most athletic training programs, has been for a very long time. Tried and tested. A staple in the world of elite athletics and performance.
Whatever form it comes in, it's very likely a derivitative of testosterone.
Incarus was a cool film although it was very shallow in it's understanding of the subjects involved. The guy essentially took a cycle and didn't rate it much. That says nothing about the subjects involved but speaks volumes about his capabilities and quite frankly he was an amateur attempting to be an elite level athlete and expected a cycle to get him there, much like a lot of people do. Although he's pretty humble and states he wasn't expecting miracles, lots of people who use AAS do expect miracles and think they will go from the bottom of the pile to the top simply because they take AAS.

I took 300mg of Test E and 600mg of EQ for 2-3 months. Got into running. I went from being a complete novice runner who before that couldn't do much without getting out of breath to coming in the top 10 in a 5K competition among medium-high level runners (and the clubs they trained and raced for/with). I obviously couldn't keep the pace all the way because my training experience was practically none-existent compared to these guys who had been running for years, but at one point I was close to running sub 19 minute. The foundations were there, otherwise I'd have never been at the front of the pack and only a few months prior I wouldn't have even made it through a mile. I bottomed out due to lack of conditioning but got 19m20, first time out in a competitive race. The average 5K time for most runners is considerably more. The top spot was a guy with around 16 minute. That's about 5:00/mile, maybe 5:20/mile, around 18-19kph consistetly for 3 minutes or around 11-12mph. I was around 6:20/mile (I think) and at times under 6 minute.
In perspective, the world record at one point was 4:00/mile, and that is extremely impressive still today. Most people will never be able to maintain that pace for long. I managed under 6 for much of the race in my first race. Gear was 90% of that being possible, without a doubt.

The bottom line is it's about the athlete, not the drugs. The drugs are tried and tested. They work. It's the person taking them and their involvement in the whole process. And these drugs are used by more than bodybuilders! Bodybuilding is about the only thing most people relate to steroids but your top tier boxers use AAS, runners, CrossFit, cyclists, soccer, rugby/football, swimmers, Olympic athletes, MMA athletes, many people from many disciplines basically. And they use them because they work.

 

[thegreenhand]

No offense but a 19 min 5k isn’t exactly anything to write home about. Any semi dedicated runner can hit those sub 20 times relatively quick. Dropping those extra 2-4 mins to get down to where those 15-16 min guys are at is a very long, tedious process

I have strong suspicions that gear had much to do with your performance. Any one who is not overweight, and coming from some sort of fitness background will see those significant gains when new to running. getting to sub 20 is definitely something to be proud of but it’s not anything outside of the scope of the well noted phenomenon of “newbie gains”. I’d be willing to bet that had you continued your regimen the progress would have quickly plateaued

im not denying that test can help with running performance, just that the times you were putting out had anything to do with the gear

 

[GrymReefer]

I felt cardio was effortless on clenbuterol, but how well does the experience on the treadmill translate to the earth in regard to long distance I'm not sure. I'd also add in that you'd probably see the best benefit in the first 2-3 days of titrating the dosage up before you start getting mild tremors that may mess with maintaining the mindset for the long haul.

I feel like coffee is great if you're going long distance, but have access to restrooms along the way. Too much stimulation to the digestive tract for me to consider it.

I can't see how testosterone would be an advantageous drug for running unless you were severely hypogonadal. 500mg test e/wk after 5-6 weeks I have some noticable pumps in legs from doing little to no movement. Honestly couldn't imagine how that would feel trying to actually run endurance with some solid striding. We all respond differently though so who knows?

 

[TripSitterNZ]

I used to hit my THC cart before runs but I was also in high school and hit my THC cart before everything haha

I’ve tried pseudoephedrine before a run and might have a slight benefit but could be entirely placebo

LSD is where it at that though. It definitely has to be less than 100 ug with 30-50 ug being the sweet spot. I feel like my body has endless energy and bounce. The runners high pairs extremely well with the acid high. I’ve only done this three times (I don’t take acid nearly as much I used to lol) but it’s definitely something I plan to do again

i never get much exercise but on LSD still i can suddenly go 10 km in a trance without even breaking a sweat or deep breathe til i have totally returned.

 

[thegreenhand]

I felt cardio was effortless on clenbuterol, but how well does the experience on the treadmill translate to the earth in regard to long distance I'm not sure. I'd also add in that you'd probably see the best benefit in the first 2-3 days of titrating the dosage up before you start getting mild tremors that may mess with maintaining the mindset for the long haul.

I feel like coffee is great if you're going long distance, but have access to restrooms along the way. Too much stimulation to the digestive tract for me to consider it.

I can't see how testosterone would be an advantageous drug for running unless you were severely hypogonadal. 500mg test e/wk after 5-6 weeks I have some noticable pumps in legs from doing little to no movement. Honestly couldn't imagine how that would feel trying to actually run endurance with some solid striding. We all respond differently though so who knows?

yeah idk much about test or much of anything really lol

coffee definitely needs restroom stops but for me i also crash hard on it so i need to make sure i have constant supply to redose

and as for treadmill to pavement, the treadmill tends to over inflate pace so times would likely be a little slower on pavement. that's just my experience though

 

[thegreenhand]

i never get much exercise but on LSD still i can suddenly go 10 km in a trance without even breaking a sweat or deep breathe til i have totally returned.

yeah it's definitely a PED lol

and not just because of mental aspects (though that plays a large role i suspect). it has quite a stimulating effect. you feel electric almost

 

[ions]

In my 20s I would run for two miles or play soccer and also use cannabis. I felt like one helped the other.

 

[finitelifeform]

No offense but a 19 min 5k isn’t exactly anything to write home about. Any semi dedicated runner can hit those sub 20 times relatively quick. Dropping those extra 2-4 mins to get down to where those 15-16 min guys are at is a very long, tedious process

I have strong suspicions that gear had much to do with your performance. Any one who is not overweight, and coming from some sort of fitness background will see those significant gains when new to running. getting to sub 20 is definitely something to be proud of but it’s not anything outside of the scope of the well noted phenomenon of “newbie gains”. I’d be willing to bet that had you continued your regimen the progress would have quickly plateaued

im not denying that test can help with running performance, just that the times you were putting out had anything to do with the gear

I was 6 minutes slower than Olympic gold for sprint triathlons and beat high level competitors with plenty of room to spare in a city where I live, third largest in the country I believe.
I was training BJJ, wrestling and kickboxing with guys who had been training for years and keeping up with them (cardio capacity, not in combat experience). Not long after my first 5K run I was lasting all the rounds in boxing.
And I went from couch to all this thanks to a few months of training for my first competitive 5K race which started it all off! Truly a monumental acceleration in progression unlike anything I have ever experienced. And the progression still continues.

The foundations still exist today, some 4 years on. I'm known for my cardio I was up there in the top bracket of the population at one point so I have no doubt about my fitness levels.
So I disagree completely with you assumption that had I continued my training I would have reached a plateau. Training never stops That's the whole point of getting better. Putting it down to newbie gains is an excuse for those incapable of achieving success in their life to what is a very small percentage of any training journey. Newbie gains are great but they are exactly that - newbie gains. They do not define you nor do summarize your abilities. You either work hard, or you don't. Shaving 15-20 minutes off a complete novice start to running in less than 3 months without a dedicated training plan is not newbie gains. It's dedication and hard work. A mammoth achievement many will never achieve, especially in that time. Then throwing yourself into combat sports and keeping up with guys who had been doing it for a long time is a big feat. You don't get that from newbie gains.

Testosterone is an invaluable support for any athlete. And testosterone most definetly helped me achieve my goals. I have no qualms with accepting it. With more than average levels of hormone in your body you naturally will benefit from enhanced benefits, particuarly when the hormone is linked to ALL areas of what your training consists of. We seek to enhance ourselves all the time. Our smartphones are essentially extensions of ourselves, an enhancement of what already exists. We enhance our experience with drugs, have done since time began. Historical evidence of this is everywhere both in culture and in physical artefacts that remain from history. Humans have an innate connection to drugs. So for me, PEDs/AAS is that enhancement.

Also you mention dropping to 15-16 minute. It's all based on goals, preferences, lifestyle choices etc. Not everybody wants to do 15-16 minute and in the process you HAVE to sacrifice many things to get there. 15-16 minute is advanced level running. So you're talking about worlds apart. No-one is comparing your fit people who like to challenge themselves with your elite level runners who literally change their lives and their bodies, lifestyle choices etc to hit those times. So it's irrelevant comparing sub 19 to sub 15-16. It's like comparing casual people who attend boxing gyms to keep fit with your professional national or above level boxers. If we are talking about reaching elite levels then sure, sub 19 minute is an easy run for those guys. Seeing as the majority of the population are not, nor ever be, elite level runners, it means very little. Seeing as we are not talking about advanced running and beyond as a target (that I'm aware of) it's putting a goal in front of you that is irrelevant. It also doesn't define your abilities just because you can't hit those times. Most people will never hit those times but they are more than happy with their progress and that's all that counts.

 

[jimdron]

Very interesting thread! Somehow was not notified and forgot this is going.

Caffeine did not help, maybe caused light nausea in actual marathon race. 0.5 of Xanax did no harm, I think, but did not feel like right thing for the race. Concerta also was no particular influence, I think.

I run a few times in training after taking 300 mg of codeine (2-3 hours after) and I felt absolutely wonderful. It definitely would help in race. But I worry they would slow me down. Would be very interesting experience in any case.