• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand

lithium carbonate

after 3 days on lithium, im experiencing kidney pain in both ends of my back. is this normal, with the kidneys trying to adjust? or should i lower the dose, or just stop it??
This is the sort of stuff where I really urge to ask the doc about, specially with lithium. Kidney pain is a warning sign by all means and never had anything more than a slight 'cold' feeling there from some hefty dosages of dissociatives - this was indeed coldness from reduced blood flow or sth, relieved upon putting a blanket around.
 
after 3 days on lithium, im experiencing kidney pain in both ends of my back. is this normal, with the kidneys trying to adjust? or should i lower the dose, or just stop it??

I don't think you usually feel it as pain if something's wrong with your kidneys, and it could be some psychosomatic symptom from expecting that kind of side effects. If there's something abnormal with your urination or other suspicious things, you should definitely see a doctor as soon as possible.
 
Allone you should see a doctor. Seriously the toxicity depends on your lithium level. I got mine measured in inpatient until it was the right amount. Then i now go and get blood work often. I dont have any side effects from years of lithium but i had a tremor in inpatient before they fixed it. This can be a very toxic drug. Did they just give you a large dose without bloodwork? Wtf. Id call the doctor immediately and say like" sorry to bother you im having kidney pain what do i do and i heard about a lithium level do i have one and do i need blood work and, at what point if this kidney pain doesnt decrease should i go to the hospital? Thank you" i know its easy to be a prick and you sound like youd be more than justified but thats never gotten me anywhere with doctors.
 
I'm pretty sure he's self medicating with lithium and there are no doctors involved. Generally doing that is considered a really bad idea because the theraputic concentration range is pretty small and the bioavailibility is highly variable between individuals.

I'd discontinue lithium immediately and see a doctor...
 
I'd discontinue lithium immediately and see a doctor...

Yes, if that's true then it's best to stop right now and get medical attention. The beginning of lithium pharmacotherapy requires frequent blood tests for measuring lithium concentrations.
 
"I'm pretty sure he's self medicating with lithium" wtf??
I got it from my doc. I told him to prescribe it to me. I read it can help me as im mentally unstable. And it does! but at the cost of my kidneys?? fuck this
I took it last night, much lower dose. I didnt have issues, but I didnt have any beer either. I am usually drinking. Ill call the doc tomorrow see if maybe there is something to switch it off to. What else works as lithium? I need mood stabilizer. My doc checked my levels 6 months ago and it was 0. Thats when I suggested to start taking it and it took that long to finally start it. I think its bad idea to drink alcohol on it. Or, i might be having kidney issues in general and not be aware? Im not sure how to approuch the situation at this point, as it does help me mentally, but obviously not physically...
 
If you were prescribed it by a doctor, then you should direct your complaints to them, rather than a bunch of anonymous Bluelighters... none of us can run blood tests. At worst it's something bad, but there is also a chance you are totally fine and the kidney pain is either unrelated or psychogenic. The problem is that you need a blood draw and some physical examination to know what exactly the course of action will be.
My doc checked my levels 6 months ago and it was 0.

That's normal. Most diets are not exactly rich in lithium salts. More important is the lithium blood level after you've been taking it for a few days.
 
That's normal. Most diets are not exactly rich in lithium salts. More important is the lithium blood level after you've been taking it for a few days.

yeah i hear you.

i actually made this thread to get other people's reaction to this drug. you know, reports and so fourth. complains and various issues using it etc. hopefully i gather a report. because honestly my doc is so old he doesnt even know anything new out there. i told him about ketamine he is like wtf you talking about!? im like dude, ketamine is legal prescription medication now.... you know? he was all confused actually. but ill be so happy if he is able to prescribe it, if possible!
 
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I take lithium and depakote as mood stabilizers but both need blood work.

I would focus on the standard mood stabilizers before ketamine because they have alot more research and years of practice behind them. I dont discredit the potiental benefit of ketamine but its still being worked out how it is best used.

You cant really change your dose day to day. Like i have to take the same dose everyday to keep a steady level so i stay steady and stable. If i didnt take it i dont think id notice anything till one day i find myself hospitalized thinking "not again". Its not like amphetamine or caffeine or dxm or being wasted where its obvious the effects.

I think if you where my brother or sister id tell you to not change the dose and call the pharmacist (might be easier to reach and ask about lithium and liver problems) and doctor (ask about lithium level and liver problems) and ask both if they think you need to go to the er.
 
d1nach, so you still take lithium? you said you were taking it for a while until you reached the right dose in the blood work and stopped. not sure if you resumed over time or what? im wondering this though, when you reached a desired level in the blood, did you feel stable long term without additional doses?
"You cant really change your dose day to day. Like i have to take the same dose everyday to keep a steady level", have you heard of low dose lithium for health and well being? It has studies and support by the supplement industry. some sell lithium orotate at just 1mg to 5mg. so supposedly you do not need 300mg, but just low dose like 1 to 5mg long term to maintain good health. of course it wont help people who actually really need it, but im just curious if you have read or know about the low dose and positive health relation? Also, interestingly, they use the orotate version and not the carbonate. not sure how much of a difference does that make as they have been compared to be kind of similar in tests.
 
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This is my opinion so conjecture but I haven't heard that lithium is toxic at any level. Maybe it's toxic once you reach 1g doses but that usually takes 10 years to reach those levels

Good luck
 
I take 1200 mg every day. Sorry if i said i stopped i must of made a error typing on my phone.

I feel very stable however i can not stop. Its a medication i have to take everyday. If i stopped it i would probably feel fine without because the effects are very subtle. However, over the course of days or weeks my mood would slowly return to a unstable dangerous state. That imo is the danger with lithium i cant feel it so its tempting to mess with the dose or just stop because ive been doing great. But ive been doing great the few years on lithium. I have to look at it objectively ok almost every year since middle school ive been dangerously unstable and these few years i happen to be on lithium i happen to be stable enough to avoid being hospitalized. Therefore, it is likely helping me.

In my opinion people who profit from selling lithium orotate to people with mental illness are intentionally or not are risking those peoples health and possibly life if they commit suicide.

Btw thank you for bring up lithium orotate im not trying to call you a murder. Lol sorry if it comes off that way. I have autism and trouble communicating. Im just trying to say things honestly because ive spent so much
Money on bullsh*t and (while not specifically that but i did look into it) only for them to not work and still be in a miserable dangerous state. Please be careful friend. Not everyone has your best interest in mind.
 
My doc checked my levels 6 months ago and it was 0. Thats when I suggested to start taking it and it took that long to finally start it.
Just so I’m not derailing the other thread. You said your dr checked your levels before you took it. Fair enough, I suppose some do. The RECOMMENDED course of action is to check serum levels when you’re on lithium. This is to ensure your levels aren’t toxic among other things. They are checked weekly, then fortnightly to ensure you’re on the right dose. Only then do they move to 3 monthly. What you have stated is not the case and goes against what any dr would ever do. Check your levels before you’re even on it and then never bother checking them after you’ve been prescribed it?! Come on. Wise the fuck up. You’re not getting this from a dr because nothing you say makes any sense.

Saying you’re getting kidney pains when taking with beer then not getting them after lowering the dose? Wtf!? Again... give me a break.

Go to your actual dr. Get a proper diagnosis and prescription. Don’t mix prescribed drugs with illicit ones.
 
just wondering if anyone is using or have used this for psychotic episodes, depression, anxiety, addiction etc ?
i recently acquired some and im worried about interactions. im pretty sure this one is pretty bad, interacting with almost anything out there. i read stories of death, ok, so this one seems something you dont wanna fuck with too much. im specifically curious about its interactions with suboxone and alcohol. those two are already fucked up to mix as it is, but i wonder if lithium will be the icing on the cake? im just wondering about bad nasty interactions, thats all. my doctor didnt tell me shit. the manual reads so many side effects, just like any other med, that im not sure which to be taken serious and why.




I've been on it for 12 years it litterally saved mt life its the best pilll I've ever. Taken it litterallly gave me the ability to make my own descisions without it id definetly be in prison without a doubt I take a relatively high dose i take 1350mg a day all at night

If it dont help you significantly its prally not the drug for you the only bad things about it is direct sunlight is like 10x hotter and it makes me twitch prally twice a day kinda like a quick tourette other than that its amazing


N also its got a pretty long half life im pretty sure cuz i won't notice I didn't take it until about day 3 of not taking it this is person dependant though everones different

Long-Term Control

Desirable serum lithium concentrations are 0.6 to 1.2 mEq/L which can usually be achieved with 900 to 1200 mg/day. Dosage will vary from one individual to another, but generally the following dosages will maintain this concentration:


Central Nervous System: tremor, muscle hyperirritability (fasciculations, twitching, clonic movements of whole limbs), hypertonicity, ataxia, choreoathetotic movements, hyperactive deep tendon reflex, extrapyramidal symptoms including acute dystonia, cogwheel rigidity, blackout spells, epileptiform seizures, slurred speech, dizziness, vertigo, downbeat nystagmus, incontinence of urine or feces, somnolence, psychomotor retardation, restlessness, confusion, stupor, coma, tongue movements, tics, tinnitus, hallucinations, poor memory, slowed intellectual functioning, startled response, worsening of organic brain syndromes. Cases of Pseudotumor cerebri (increased intracranial pressure and papilledema) have been reported with lithium use. If undetected, this condition may result in enlargement of the blind spot, constriction of visual fields and eventual blindness due to optic atrophy. Lithium should be discontinued, if clinically possible, if this syndrome occurs.

Gastrointestinal: anorexia, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, gastritis, salivary gland swelling, abdominal pain, excessive salivation, flatulence, indigestion.


Renal Effects

Chronic lithium therapy may be associated with diminution of renal concentrating ability, occasionally presenting as nephrogenic diabetes insipidus, with polyuria and polydipsia. Such patients should be carefully managed to avoid dehydration with resulting lithium retention and toxicity. This condition is usually reversible when lithium is discontinued.


Post marketing cases consistent with nephrotic syndrome have been reported with the use of lithium. Biopsy findings in patients with nephrotic syndrome include minimal change disease and focal segmental glomerulosclerosis. Discontinuation of lithium in patients with nephrotic syndrome has resulted in remission of nephrotic syndrome.


Morphologic changes with glomerular and interstitial fibrosis and nephron atrophy have been reported in patients on chronic lithium therapy. Morphologic changes have also been seen in manic-depressive patients never exposed to lithium. The relationship between renal function and morphologic changes and their association with lithium therapy have not been established.


Kidney function should be assessed prior to and during lithium therapy. Routine urinalysis and other tests may be used to evaluate tubular function (e.g., urine specific gravity or osmolality following a period of water deprivation, or 24-hour urine volume) and glomerular function (e.g., serum creatinine, creatinine clearance, or proteinuria). During lithium therapy, progressive or sudden changes in renal function, even within the normal range, indicate the need for re-evaluation of treatment.


Precautions




The ability to tolerate lithium is greater during the acute manic phase and decreases when manic symptoms subside (see DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION).
The distribution space of lithium approximates that of total body water. Lithium is primarily excreted in urine with insignificant excretion in feces. Renal excretion of lithium is proportional to its plasma concentration. The elimination half-life of lithium is approximately 24 hours. Lithium decreases sodium reabsorption by the renal tubules which could lead to sodium depletion. Therefore, it is essential for the patient to maintain a normal diet, including salt, and an adequate fluid intake (2500 to 3500 mL) at least during the initial stabilization period. Decreased tolerance to lithium has been reported to ensue from protracted sweating or diarrhea and, if such occur, supplemental fluid and salt should be administered under careful medical supervision and lithium intake reduced or suspended until the condition is resolved.
In addition to sweating and diarrhea, concomitant infection with elevated temperatures may also necessitate a temporary reduction or cessation of medication.
Previously existing thyroid disorders do not necessarily constitute a contraindication to lithium treatment. Where hypothyroidism preexists, careful monitoring of thyroid function during lithium stabilization and maintenance allows for correction of changing thyroid parameters and/or adjustment of lithium doses, if any. If hypothyroidism occurs during lithium stabilization and maintenance, supplemental thyroid treatment may be used.

All this info was found here



Also dont trip on acid it can kill you itlk make you have seziures and also many people will tell to watch out for serotonin syndrome as t h at can be deadly i have done lsd while on lithium carbonaye and had multiple seziured dont do any DOX drugs (dob,dom,doc,doi) same thing will happen people will also say dont do any psychedelics but ive done most mainstream psycedelics n lsd is the only one I've had issues with


I hope this helps
 
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thanks for this information. pretty informative and im glad some people take this thread serious unlike other, the irish assholes, just using it as troll playground :/
 
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