Life after Heroin.

[nznity]

Life After Heroin Is Beautiful and Boring

One of the hardest lessons around being sober is learning to appreciate the ordinary, the mundane, and the normal.

www.vice.com

 

[dopamimetic]

It's boring for sure but what I struggle with are inner tension, nervousness and anxiety. Had these things before, yet the drugs put a cuddly blanket over them and I forgot their intensity, then even their existence over time - repeatedly, was always my cause for relapses. Even professionals tell you that withdrawal is primarily physical discomfort and is often described as being flu-like - which is probably an understatement. But in rehab I've seen people in withdrawal, sweating, shivering and still socializing - I just can't. Hate it to even just prepare food and avoid leaving the room as much as possible, minutes become hours when everything is overwhelming and boring at the same time. Also physical withdrawal can be somewhat managed with things like loperamide and there are pharmaceutical possibilities to avoid a good part of the withdrawal entirely but what remains is the post-acute stage which doesn't seem to fade away anytime soon.

Memantine is interestingly a great aid both with acute as well as PAWS but it's not well known, hard to get a script for and can be too expensive (off-label). Also again a mental dependence, it agonizes D2 receptors so they won't recover on it. Stopping mem. was much heavier than 200mg/d morphine after 2 years with it, and it still remains to be..

Is it just me or a common phenomenon, which the clinical withdrawals covering only a few weeks fail to cover?

 

[Jabberwocky]

lol that article is hilarious. the lack of self reflection, that most people probably can't afford to fanny about in some recovery resort in thailand and in fact actually have to work for a living pretty soon out of rehab (lol i had to work while i was in secondary care). i guess she considers shitting out this garbage to be work and is probably getting a pretty penny for it.

she shouldn't have time to get bored. she should be treating saving her life as a full time job. early recovery for me was hours on public transport, which trust me is not beautiful though waiting for it is boring, going between gym, therapist, drugs services, NA. ha i'm clearly pretty jealous of her. honestly i hope she stays clean and hope her recovery process involves gaining some perspective.

 

[nznity]

It's boring for sure but what I struggle with are inner tension, nervousness and anxiety. Had these things before, yet the drugs put a cuddly blanket over them and I forgot their intensity, then even their existence over time - repeatedly, was always my cause for relapses. Even professionals tell you that withdrawal is primarily physical discomfort and is often described as being flu-like - which is probably an understatement. But in rehab I've seen people in withdrawal, sweating, shivering and still socializing - I just can't. Hate it to even just prepare food and avoid leaving the room as much as possible, minutes become hours when everything is overwhelming and boring at the same time. Also physical withdrawal can be somewhat managed with things like loperamide and there are pharmaceutical possibilities to avoid a good part of the withdrawal entirely but what remains is the post-acute stage which doesn't seem to fade away anytime soon.

Memantine is interestingly a great aid both with acute as well as PAWS but it's not well known, hard to get a script for and can be too expensive (off-label). Also again a mental dependence, it agonizes D2 receptors so they won't recover on it. Stopping mem. was much heavier than 200mg/d morphine after 2 years with it, and it still remains to be..

Is it just me or a common phenomenon, which the clinical withdrawals covering only a few weeks fail to cover?

man i'm 40 days clean and don't feel like i'm getting close to normal anytime soon.

 

[nznity]

3 months i think is the shortest period of time for a good success rate. That's when you start to think normally.

 

[dopamimetic]

Didn't read the article but good points @chinup. The shitty way people are treated in the average rehab facility adds to the mental strain and of course the pressure about money. To realize how much money and chances one has wasted during addiction alone can and does cause depression.

Admittedly I didn't even have the pressure to work asap as I'm diagnosed as disabled (questionable but another topic) and really couldn't imagine to work full time while withdrawal is still going on let alone pretend that everything is fine. Having nothing to do isn't the best thing either but that boredom I mentioned can be misleading and anhedonia would better suited. I don't refer to wanting kill boredom by using drugs but to found no pleasure at all in nothing, just wanting to escape in whatever situation you are, alone or with others, at home or in public. Sleep is the only thing which doesn't feel bad.

As I wrote, memantine was and would be a godsend for me. At least the single most effective pharm and would be interested in reports from others. Can require multiple times the max dose for Alzheimers which further complicates things (in papers up to 60mg were used, and low doses aren't more effective than placebo).

But besides amoreliating acute wd it might just delay PAWS, unsure about that.

 

[G_Chem]

I didn’t read the article but IMO if your in the US and can afford to go to any rehab that isn’t a complete trash hole, you’ve got money and are privileged. I barely could afford to go to the shit hole I did and still cost thousands after insurance covered what they would.

-GC

 

[BK38]

Life After Heroin Is Beautiful and Boring

One of the hardest lessons around being sober is learning to appreciate the ordinary, the mundane, and the normal.

www.vice.com

I literally went to this rehab lol. It worked tbh. I was one of the 5 first clients in fact! I was super fucked up and in meth and benzo psychosis for like 2 months AFTER stopping all the drugs, was pretty gnarly, but that place helped, so fuck anyone who wants to talk shit about it. I'm not too fond of the article, but it helped me. I was also addicted to heroin for 3 years or so, but had already kicked that when I went to Hope.

 

[Deru]

3 months i think is the shortest period of time for a good success rate. That's when you start to think normally.

That's very true. Statistics show recovery rates jump at 90 days. Honestly, bro, life is boring in the the near short term of getting sober. As an addict, we tend to obsess about a few weeks of hell, and try to come up with every way possible to lessen the pain. The problem is, those three or four weeks are nothing compared to the challenge of living life sober. Things become so much easier when you stay busy, work, volunteer, do something productive. Get that brain's reward system making new circuitry, let the "highway" size road/brain wiring we built during our addiction stop having less paths that light it up. It's a long, long, long, boring process. But it truly does get better with time.

 

[BK38]

Well that is pleasant to hear it worked for you.

It did fuck all for 3 people I know, all for heroin. Not all from Aus.

Just doped up and chucked out Done, courtesy of their close partnership with the local hospital.

What year did you attend? It has been there for years......

I would rather a holiday in Pattaya, just an hour or so away which is far more enjoyable - Jomtien beach, bars, food, no culture but sex if wanted!

As for your view - Khun Krap - perhaps your next step is a glowing review on VICE!

I was literally one of the 5 first clients, so I want to say either late 2014 or early 2015. My memory is a little hazy because I was in a really bad way. Are you sure it was "Hope" they were talking about and not "The Cabin" ? I actually went to both and the Cabin's in N. Thailand, while Hope is in the South, about 3 hours outside BKK. I kicked Heroin at the Cabin around 2012, but I had heard murmurs that it had gone downhill, they've now rebranded to something else.

I think rehab is in some ways, what you make it. If you put in a lot of work and genuinely want to get clean, you'll get something out of it ime. It also takes time, not some quick jaunt (I think anything under 3 months is basically a waste of time). I'm sorry it didn't help for your 3 mates, but it doesn't sound like the Hope I experienced. I was also there for quite some time, I think 6 months in total, with the first 2 literally just returning to sanity.

I'm not sure I'm going to be writing a glowing review on Vice anytime soon, but maybe I will write a piece for a publication that's a little more serious some time in future. FYI, I also lived in Thailand for a a little over 2 years and I still think N. Thailand is my favorite part of Thailand! Was not a fan of Pattaya at all.

 

[nznity]

I was literally one of the 5 first clients, so I want to say either late 2014 or early 2015. My memory is a little hazy because I was in a really bad way. Are you sure it was "Hope" they were talking about and not "The Cabin" ? I actually went to both and the Cabin's in N. Thailand, while Hope is in the South, about 3 hours outside BKK. I kicked Heroin at the Cabin around 2012, but I had heard murmurs that it had gone downhill, they've now rebranded to something else.

I think rehab is in some ways, what you make it. If you put in a lot of work and genuinely want to get clean, you'll get something out of it ime. It also takes time, not some quick jaunt (I think anything under 3 months is basically a waste of time). I'm sorry it didn't help for your 3 mates, but it doesn't sound like the Hope I experienced. I was also there for quite some time, I think 6 months in total, with the first 2 literally just returning to sanity.

I'm not sure I'm going to be writing a glowing review on Vice anytime soon, but maybe I will write a piece for a publication that's a little more serious some time in future. FYI, I also lived in Thailand for a a little over 2 years and I still think N. Thailand is my favorite part of Thailand! Was not a fan of Pattaya at all.

was pete doherty in hope with you? LOL

 

[BK38]

was pete doherty in hope with you? LOL

Nah, he was there after me. Funnily enough, he was at "The Cabin," another rehab in Thailand I went to and he was there before me and I went to Hope before him. Our paths never crossed. It was funny, some of the lady junkies at the rehabs were all excited that he went to the rehab. lol. I was with a pretty famous female writer, Cat Marnell, in rehab at Hope though. She was kinda my pal there as we both like to write and laughed a lot.

https://www.thecut.com/2017/01/cat-marnell-how-to-murder-your-life.html

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/the-nine-lives-of-cat-marnell-122770/

 

[nznity]

Nah, he was there after me. Funnily enough, he was at "The Cabin," another rehab in Thailand I went to and he was there before me and I went to Hope before him. Our paths never crossed. It was funny, some of the lady junkies at the rehabs were all excited that he went to the rehab. lol. I was with a pretty famous female writer, Cat Marnell, in rehab at Hope though. She was kinda my pal there as we both like to write and laughed a lot.

https://www.thecut.com/2017/01/cat-marnell-how-to-murder-your-life.html

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/the-nine-lives-of-cat-marnell-122770/

well didn't do shit for doherty anyway LOL he's still banging smack and doing crack justnot that often cause hes getting old but it's good to know that it worked for u bro.

 

[Rio Fantastic]

lol that article is hilarious. the lack of self reflection, that most people probably can't afford to fanny about in some recovery resort in thailand and in fact actually have to work for a living pretty soon out of rehab (lol i had to work while i was in secondary care). i guess she considers shitting out this garbage to be work and is probably getting a pretty penny for it.

she shouldn't have time to get bored. she should be treating saving her life as a full time job. early recovery for me was hours on public transport, which trust me is not beautiful though waiting for it is boring, going between gym, therapist, drugs services, NA. ha i'm clearly pretty jealous of her. honestly i hope she stays clean and hope her recovery process involves gaining some perspective.

Hey chinup! Hope you're doing well.

Just wanted to say that I share the knee-jerk reflexive distaste for middle/upper-class people writing about their suffering, since a part of me feels that their wealth and privilege shelters them from the worst of addiction and their difficulties in sobriety pale in comparison to those of us who don't have the luxury of finding ourselves in Thailand or at a tropical resort or a five star top of the line rehabilitation centre, but then I remember that this disease can take anybody - old, young, white, black, poor or rich. This woman's suffering is probably more comparable to ours than we would first think, since we all share the same affliction. And after all, if you had the choice wouldn't you be doing the same thing? I know that I for one would definitely have jumped at the opportunity to take a couple of years out to get sober on an extended holiday rather than getting it over with so that I can get back to work as soon as possible.

 

[geekgrl]

Shit the bed? Rehab in thailand? Wowsers, I can't even afford it in this country? Ye it's boring, I don't have the answer. Part of me wishes I worked full time again so I was forced to do more but lockdown hasn't helped my calendar. Having time out from life helps in some ways, but makes some parts harder.

 

[Jabberwocky]

This woman's suffering is probably more comparable to ours than we would first think, since we all share the same affliction.

completely agreed. its hell whether you're rich or poor.

my issue with the article is more the seeming lack of awareness that her circumstances are so vastly different to most people in early recovery. she writes about what a car crash she was, and then living it up in a thai rehab resort. i feel like it paints a poor image of heroin addicts because she doesn't even seem to allude to the huge amount of psychological work and pain involved in getting clean. it reads like she's on a jolly, not that she's trying to save her life.

 

[Shady's Fox]

Shit the bed? Rehab in thailand? Wowsers, I can't even afford it in this country? Ye it's boring, I don't have the answer. Part of me wishes I worked full time again so I was forced to do more but lockdown hasn't helped my calendar. Having time out from life helps in some ways, but makes some parts harder.

ya yo, in my rehab there was a girl pokin my ear with her fingers

i kick the fuck outta her

haha

 

[geekgrl]

completely agreed. its hell whether you're rich or poor.

my issue with the article is more the seeming lack of awareness that her circumstances are so vastly different to most people in early recovery. she writes about what a car crash she was, and then living it up in a thai rehab resort. i feel like it paints a poor image of heroin addicts because she doesn't even seem to allude to the huge amount of psychological work and pain involved in getting clean. it reads like she's on a jolly, not that she's trying to save her life.

Well said

 

[Rio Fantastic]

completely agreed. its hell whether you're rich or poor.

my issue with the article is more the seeming lack of awareness that her circumstances are so vastly different to most people in early recovery. she writes about what a car crash she was, and then living it up in a thai rehab resort. i feel like it paints a poor image of heroin addicts because she doesn't even seem to allude to the huge amount of psychological work and pain involved in getting clean. it reads like she's on a jolly, not that she's trying to save her life.

You should read her other articles. She definitely has had a dark, dark past and is very honest about the difficulty she's had trying to get clean. The articles seemed pretty regular until they suddenly stopped in January and no update on her at all since then. Hope she hasn't relapsed.

 

[BK38]

Shit the bed? Rehab in thailand? Wowsers, I can't even afford it in this country? Ye it's boring, I don't have the answer. Part of me wishes I worked full time again so I was forced to do more but lockdown hasn't helped my calendar. Having time out from life helps in some ways, but makes some parts harder.

I went to the same rehab in Thailand and it's actually significantly cheaper than most rehabs in the US or the UK. Especially compared to the US, which was approximately 5-6X the price per month. I literally got 6 months at Hope in Sriracha for the same as it would have cost me for 1 month in the US. Seems to be a major misconception that it's some super expensive place. It's not cheap, but you definitely have a more "luxury" experience and the equivalent level of care in Thailand (It has a pretty big medical tourism industry for the same reason too - I still do most of my dental work there).