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libido issues on cruise / reduced erection quality

TrenE

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Nov 29, 2018
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I'd personally cruise on test and mast if it's a true cruise you desire. Get some test e and mast e and do like 200/250 test and 100 mast e and inject twice a week (so 0.75cc 2x per week). Should be sufficient to keep dht in range, estrogen sides away, and fix any blood work issues. I've cruised on 600mg before and got blood work to be fine for what it's worth (hdl was a bit low and Ldl was high normal but all was in range).
As per the Viagra question, I couldn't answer that. What were the quality of the tablets? If not pharma it could just be bunk pills. 25mg and I'm throbbing with a stuffy nose and sometimes a migraine headache.
Thanks for your helpful cruise advice. I will follow it.

Your 600mg sound a lot for cruising with.

Regarding Viagra I got it from the pharmacy which has never changed. I still get the sides, but 10 years ago I got an erection with Viagra immediately while having some thoughts and today I need visual sometimes physical stimulation and it is harder to hold a strong erection even with Viagra which was in the past never a problem even if I was distracted during sexual activity. Studies say there is no tolerance building up, but I am facing some.

First I thought the reason is maybe Losartan but studies show that it seems only to have the possibility improving erection quality. Te intake of Losartan 50 was the only thing I have changed over time and wanted to increase the dosage to the standard dose of 100mg. Do you have another idea or could this be normal after so many years?
 
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Swim15

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Just depends, I know dudes that cruise on a gram and I’m cruising on 400-500 right now. Obviously trading some health for other aspects but my diet is easily the best it’s ever been in my life thanks to my ulcerative colitis diagnosis so I don’t worry quite as much, especially with copious supports.

I’d do the same thing with test mast. Anything from 100/100 a 200/100 depending on goals and see how that does. Lot easier to control DHT dosing then AI dosing IMO.

Losartan could cause issues though. Not necessarily but it’s definitely not out out of the question. I felt like telmisartan did and dropped it but my BP is perfect 115/65 always anyways.

If the viagra isn’t working though it may just mean that the issue doesn’t lie in a nitric oxide pathway since thats primarily what PDE inhibitors are working off of. Like I said, I had the same issue and it wasn’t a problem with NO signaling (directly at least) so I opted to try to mess with other pathways instead and got lucky.
 

TrenE

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What sides did you get from telmisartan? I have only read that ARBs do not cause erection problems instead it was shown that they can be beneficial.

Guess your right on the different pathways and I should try different things, but also maybe something changes within 10 years.
 

Swim15

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Just felt like it effected election quality. I think a lot of that research is in typical unhealthy individuals with high BP and comorbidities where the high BP and atherosclerosis is likely causing ED. Anything that messes with blood pressure, and honestly just about an prescription drug, can cause issues for someone somewhere. The human body, and erectile function especially, is a delicate thing
 

TrenE

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Maybe I will give it a try this was the only thing which I have changed. But could not there be some regular desensibilization over time and the need for more stimulation?

Have you just stopped taking it or would you advice to taper it off as it could result in a rebound of the BP? When did you recognize that erection quality increases?

On the other hand the usage of an ARB seems to be important for our health as long as we are using AAS above TRT dosages.
 
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Swim15

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Could there be? Sure I guess. Just about anything can happen.

As far as when I noticed I’m not sure, it was over a year ago that I dropped it. Probably whenever it clears and I don’t think ARBs are known for rebound as much as ACE inhibitors but unless you’re BP was already stupid high it isn’t anything I’d worry about
 

TrenE

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Thank you.

Have been using Losartan for 10 months maybe there is a connection. I will try it out and keep you updated. Guess it should be clear out quickly.
 

Genetic Freak

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Thank you.

Have been using Losartan for 10 months maybe there is a connection. I will try it out and keep you updated. Guess it should be clear out quickly.
Controlling BP, and more importantly myocardial fibrosis via ARB's should take precedence over ED...

FYI: cruise is closer to 100mg/week, not 600mg..
 

TrenE

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Thanks @Genetic Freak you are absolutely right in terms of health.

I have the same opinion on that @Swim15

I will just test it for several days to be sure whether Losartan does impact the erection quality negatively or not. By the way libido problems are solved. I will keep you updated.
 

TrenE

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I have stopped taking Losartan (50mg) for 5 days and I did not recognize an improvement in erection quality. This thread started with libido problems which are fixed now (probably dht-dependent) but I hope anyone has an idea how to restore past erection quality:

For ten years I have been unsing Sildenafil/Viagra (PDE5 inhibitors) as "lifestyle drug" to increase erection quality which has worked very well as I could hold erection even if physical stimulation has stopped for a while or I was deflected. I had no thoughts about potentially losing the erection as it never happened while on PDE5 inhibitors.

The erection quality has decreased massively over the last 1-2 years. Also increasing the dosage from 50mg to 100mg sildenafil and adding Cialis did not help to obtain the usual erection quality. I have no issue getting erections or having sex even without Viagra, but in the past I have got strong erections easier while only having sexual thoughts and never lost erections during sex when physical stimulation stopped for a short time. Today I lose erections very quickly when physical stimulation stops so that I need further physical stimulation to restore full erection again to continue sex .

Do you have an idea how I can obtain the erection quality I was used to while using PDE5 inhibitors in the past? What could be the cause for this trend? Anyone also faced thus issues?

Thank you so much.
 
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Swim15

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Yes and I’m repeating myself but if they aren’t doing it when they used to then it very likely isn’t a NO pathway that’s been impacted. Hence start looking at other pathways

Same issue that’s 80% better at this point but think it’s gonna take some time to normalize.
 

scatterday

Moderator: MDMA; Administrator: PR.net
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If not pharma it could just be bunk pills. 25mg and I'm throbbing with a stuffy nose and sometimes a migraine headache.
Not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere but give cialis a try. You can get it quite cheap as a RC online.

I used to take 10mg pre workout for better pumps and prostate health.
 

TrenE

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Not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere but give cialis a try. You can get it quite cheap as a RC online.

I used to take 10mg pre workout for better pumps and prostate health.
I am already using Cialis regularly.

Yes and I’m repeating myself but if they aren’t doing it when they used to then it very likely isn’t a NO pathway that’s been impacted. Hence start looking at other pathways

Same issue that’s 80% better at this point but think it’s gonna take some time to normalize.
Thanks. Libido and sexdrive is in place. Sexual frequency is minimum daily. Maybe it is a normal issue as you build up after years a tolerance to PDE-5-inhibitors or to sexual arousal in general so that maintaining the usual "never leaving erection" on PDE-5-inhibitors drops continuously. But maybe this could be a result of steroids on dopaminergic system for example.

But I will try to get it back, so my thoughts about testing pathways:
- testosterone, dht, estradiol is in place -> libido is well
- dopamine, prolactine seems to be in place -> tested cabergolin without beneficial results on erection quality

I will test next Yohimbine (α2-adrenergic receptor antagonist) as you mentioned it. Do you have any other pathways which I have forgotten?

Thanks.
 

Swim15

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Yeah those are the minor ones. NO and NE (along with ACh potentially) are the main ones.

Serotonin can also big big along with the other two monoamines. Alpha 1 and alpha 2 blockers is what I’d try next.

Experiencing any depressive type symptoms?
 

TrenE

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Thanks for your support. I guess you know what I mean with these unstable erections compared to the never leaving ones on PDE-5-inhibitors.

No, I have no depressive type symptoms. The next days yohimbine (but not bark for the first try) will be delivered. I willl keep you updated.

Further information which I found about sexual mechanisms and herbals and aphrodisiacs used for managing ED.
[...]Yohimbine[...] blocks alpha-2 adrenergic activity allowing vasodilation. It also acts as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor increasing serotonin in the brain. Yohimbine has a dual aphrodisiac function: it improves sexual function (10) by displacing epinephrine from alpha-2 adrenergic receptors in the pelvic area and it increases proneness to arousal thru supplying the epinephrine from the alpha-2 receptors to the central nervous system (brain) where it is active as a neurotransmitter. Side effects include nervousness, anxiety, insomnia, and possibly mild hypertension (5).
Asian herbals and aphrodisiacs used for managing ED
And regarding your input:
Penile erection is regulated by two opposing systems: noradrenergic (anti-erectile) [this is also called Norepinephrine] and nitrergic (pro-erectile) neurotransmission. [...]However, the mechanism of this imbalance is not fully understood. In addition, since the present study has demonstrated that phosphodiesterase type V inhibitors [these are PDE-5-inhibitors] can enhance and prolong the nitrergic control of noradrenergic responses, such compounds may have therapeutic potential in impotence, where defective nitrergic transmission is accompanied by increased noradrenergic activity.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12879111
If I get it right you can count alpha-2 adrenergic activity to the anti-erectile category which is in terms of maintaining erections positively affected by yohimbine. What would be an example for alpha-1 blocker?
 
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Swim15

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Boom, good stuff man I think that’s some of the same lit I found a while back and I do know what you mean.

With PDE5 inhibitors they haven’t shown downregulation in humans so I don’t think it’s due to them losing effectiveness, just the sympathetic responses taking over control from the NO parasympathetic response which can happen for a variety of reasons (assuming this isn’t a monoamine issue among others lol).

It’s interesting because alpha 2 receptors act as a negative feedback on NE and blocking them actually should increase NE release. Whereas blocking A1 directly inhibits NE binding (there’s some easy to understand graphics that represent this).

So in theory blocking alpha 2 with yohimbe shouldn’t necessarily yield a proererectile response. My idea here is that yohimbe (especially the bark with additional alkaloids) does actually interact with post synaptic alpha 1 receptors as well (which is documented to some extent). The MAOI activity could also play a roll.

My issues haven’t resolved 100% although I’ve got a lot more going on as a whole. I may try an MAOI next though just to see as well as knock out some secondary comorbid MDD that’s stemming from my ulcerative colitis.

As far as alpha 1 blockers, doxazosin would be an example
 

TrenE

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Nov 29, 2018
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Thank you for your input. I have recognized that also another thing has changed. As I started my cruise this time I have stopped taking hgh. I am still not taking hgh. Before I have neve3 had a break for such a long time (3 months) only for some weeks.

What are your thoughts about maybe facing decreased hgh levels because of our hgh abuse which we suffer now from after discontinuing taking hgh? Can you exclude this?

We believe our data provide strong evidence that GH may be of major importance in the maintenance of male erectile capability-probably through a stimulating effect on cyclic guanosine monophosphate generation in human cavernous smooth muscle-and that a decline in GH release may contribute to the manifestation of erectile dysfunction.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11927337/
How long has it taken after starting with yohimbe/yohimbine to recognize that that is improving erection quality? Why are you currently not fully satisfied with the effect?

Do you ever tried an alpha-1-blocker? Do you think this could be more potent on that pathway than yohimbine?
 
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Swim15

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I wouldn’t think so regarding the HGH but, at the end of the day, every drug in the planet has the potential to impact every person on the planet differently so it isn’t impossible. I haven’t heard much (actually any) reports of this among the bodybuilding crowd though so it wouldn’t be my first guess.

Easy to tell though - add it back in and see what happens.

As far as the yohimbe I noticed it same day but effects have started to diminish with the same dose. I think some MOAI action may be at play there and I’ve got other things impacting me as well that are a little confounding.

I haven’t tried an rx alpha 1 blocker yet though. May at some point
 

Swim15

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A new pathway I’ve been looking at that I don’t fully understand yet is melanocortin receptors (as well as implications from a-MSH among others).

I’ll be starting medical school next year and have been told by other students that I’m well ahead of the game but I have to say all the learning I’ve done in the last year has made me realize how daunting the human body is.

Every person on the planet is different and will have a different reaction to any given substance. Makes me realize that modern medicine knows nothing truly about what they’re doing or about the long term effects of 99% of meds. There’s too much going on and we really have no idea what any of it is doing besides a very superficial perspective
 

TrenE

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Nov 29, 2018
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Thank you very much @Swim15 Obviously it was not the hgh . With your advice I could restore my sexual arousal (psychological reaction to sexual stimulation) and therefore erection quality. Obviusly these are linked together. These two values were massively decreased while libido (sexual desire) was well: I wanted to have sex but visual and additional physical stimulation did not lead to a sufficient sexual arousal and erection quality which I was used to so it was hard to maintain erection. Thank you so much!

My yohimbine hcl protocol: 0,2mg per kg (20mg) in the morning and additional 0,1mg per kg (10mg) before sexual activity. Results: Erections on low level stimulation (sexual thoughts or visual stimulation), spontaneous erections, improved erection quality.

I hope this effect will not diminish.

This leads me to some questions:
What is your experience or advice to prevent loss of effects? Maybe using it only on days with sexual activity?
Are there other more recomendable alpha-2 blockers?

Maybe I will open a new thread with scientific results (e.g. recommended intake, timing regardin to half-life, other effects).

What do you think why are we facing such issues? Have you done some research regarding the influence of steroids maybe especially the strong ones trenbolone/nandrolone on NE (Norepinephrine) pathway including alpha-2 adrenergic activity?

My experience on your mentioned melanocortin receptors or a-MSH (MT2 and s PT-141/Bremelanotide): I have noticed only some spontaneous erections while using MT2. I can not say that it had impact on my libido but I think libido is anyhow increased by steroids.

According to studies which I found data regarding alpha-1 blockers as doxazosin does not support the use of doxazosin alone in the management of ed. Seems also that alpha-1 blockers act on psychogenic issues which is maybe to dangerous to experiment on.
 
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